Apple Sneaks by Android in Fourth Quarter U.S. Smartphone Sales

[BaldiMac]

What gets me is that you keep asserting this (the latest with "they would just have to switch carriers" as if that's no big deal. As if they weren't in a contract.

AT&T customers had to deal with contracts as well.

Obviously whatever their reasons for NOT buying an iPhone before it was on their carrier was stronger than they reason to switch.

Again - technically you are correct. Just as it is technically correct that anyone in the world (GSM accessible) could have already bought an unlocked iPhone - but for some reason you want to dismiss that because it would involve traveling to a different country to buy it? I'd call that a decent obstacle. Just like switching carriers is a decent obstacle.

The problem with your assertion is that it's not based in the real world. "Just having to switch carriers" is obviously not a real world scenario for enough people that they didn't. Yet - when the iPhone WAS available on their carrier of choice - BAM! Sales. Not a shocker at all.

Sure, but I was addressing a specific argument - that the number of customers in the market doubled in the US. It did not. The iPhone was made more attractive to more customers in that market by supporting their carrier of choice.

 

[dgree03]

Of course. No problem admitting when I am. But I disagree that record sales are a foregone conclusion just because you delay your product three months, add two carriers, and release it during the holiday quarter.



Again, if that's because of how well Apple has been executing, I'll say you are a super analyst. At least retroactively. But if you are saying that given the factors that kdarling discussed, any smartphone would have seen iPhone like growth, I think you are wrong.



You are completely mischaracterizing what I said. I've specifically said that releasing to more carriers is a huge part of the increase in sales in the US. Increased distribution and carrier choice are extremely important, but only if the demand is there.

Again, Verizon and Sprint customers, for the most part, have always been abled to buy an iPhone just as easily as AT&T customers. They would just have to switch carriers.

Customers in China do not currently have access to the iPhone 4S in their local markets.

I guess we can agree to disagree, I did appreciate the discussion though

So you're saying they might be having tremendous sales at the original pricepoint, and then to get more customers they just haphazardly drop the price 66% even though they were having no problems at the original price? This is what you're really saying or implying?

My goodness, Amazon has a separate cancellation policy.

"If you do not activate or extend a line of service in connection with this device, or if your service is canceled/disconnected before 181 consecutive days, AmazonWireless.com will charge you $250 per device, plus applicable taxes."

Not only that but it is $99 for new customers, existing customers like myself would have to pay $259 for the phone from amazon and extend our contract.

Verizon has a cancellation fee of $350. $350+250+99 = retail price of the phone @ amazon.

But why are we debating the price of a phone at a third party seller? Let go to the source:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...t&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=5801

Opps, still $299 at the place most people would buy a VERIZON PHONE.

 

[voonyx]

I guess we can agree to disagree, I did appreciate the discussion though



My goodness, Amazon has a separate cancellation policy.

"If you do not activate or extend a line of service in connection with this device, or if your service is canceled/disconnected before 181 consecutive days, AmazonWireless.com will charge you $250 per device, plus applicable taxes."

Not only that but it is $99 for new customers, existing customers like myself would have to pay $259 for the phone from amazon and extend our contract.

Verizon has a cancellation fee of $350. $350+250+99 = retail price of the phone @ amazon.

But why are we debating the price of a phone at a third party seller? Let go to the source:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...t&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=5801

Opps, still $299 at the place most people would buy a VERIZON PHONE.

Yes, and as we all know Verizon/Samsung/Google announced earth shattering sales for the Nexus since it was announced...:|

Obviously Verizon will be following suit. You're going to argue that they're not? When the Rezound has already dropped in price at Verizon in less then two months?

I love how you called BaldiMac out as never wanting to admit being wrong, meanwhile you're here trying to rewrite economic theory...

There is ZERO reason to drop a phone in price 1 month after its release unless it's not selling. To say that a phone is highly successful at a certain pricepoint and then a company randomly decides "hey let's get more customers by slashing the price 66%" is borderline insane. Why doesn't Apple do this? Oh yeah, cuz they're so overpriced and mean...

The Nexus is not selling well. I'm not sure why you seem to want to argue that it is.

 

[KnightWRX]

But why are we debating the price of a phone at a third party seller? Let go to the source:

Both of you (and I might add that's why I have voonyx on ignore, because he always does this) are quite far from the actual comment that started it all :

Fire sale.

A subsidized price is not a fire sale. A subsidized price dropping and is not fire sale either. It's just a bigger subsidie. Like you say, Amazon backs themselves with an extra cancellation fee on top of Verizon's cancellation fee.

In the end, Samsung is getting the full price for the phone. This is quite unlike HP's real fire sale, in which they actually took a loss.

Of course, feel free to ignore voonyx, he'll argue around in circles, nitpick everything and move goalposts until he's satisfied he's won some kind of point that has nothing to do with the original topic at all (a point you may not even disagree with to begin with).

 

[voonyx]

Both of you (and I might add that's why I have voonyx on ignore, because he always does this) are quite far from the actual comment that started it all :

Fire sale.

A subsidized price is not a fire sale. A subsidized price dropping and is not fire sale either. It's just a bigger subsidie. Like you say, Amazon backs themselves with an extra cancellation fee on top of Verizon's cancellation fee.

In the end, Samsung is getting the full price for the phone. This is quite unlike HP's real fire sale, in which they actually took a loss.

Of course, feel free to ignore voonyx, he'll argue around in circles, nitpick everything and move goalposts until he's satisfied he's won some kind of point that has nothing to do with the original topic at all (a point you may not even disagree with to begin with).

Considering neither of us were talking about fire sales, not sure what the point of your comments are? I'm still waiting for you to show me "many companies that sit on patents all the time without doing anything" and "the iPhone is given away in many countries for free" but of course ignoring me works easier because then you can avoid the fact that you were wrong.

Secondly, please stop being a pseudo-mod and telling people to stay on topic. You're one of the best people here at derailing threads. If you don't like a conversation, stay out of it, and don't say "i'm going to derail the thread by telling you not to derail the thread!"

I especially like how you "ignore" me and then bring me up every time someone quotes me. Passive aggressiveness for the win.

 

[dgree03]

Yes, and as we all know Verizon/Samsung/Google announced earth shattering sales for the Nexus since it was announced...:|

Obviously Verizon will be following suit. You're going to argue that they're not? When the Rezound has already dropped in price at Verizon in less then two months?

I love how you called BaldiMac out as never wanting to admit being wrong, meanwhile you're here trying to rewrite economic theory...

There is ZERO reason to drop a phone in price 1 month after its release unless it's not selling. To say that a phone is highly successful at a certain pricepoint and then a company randomly decides "hey let's get more customers by slashing the price 66%" is borderline insane. Why doesn't Apple do this? Oh yeah, cuz they're so overpriced and mean...

The Nexus is not selling well. I'm not sure why you seem to want to argue that it is.

So now we are changing argument from "firesale"? You commented on some elses post about Amazon, a third party retailer, dropping the price of a phone as a sign of a firesale?

http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/15/amazon-drops-verizon-galaxy-nexus-price-to-149-99/

Oops looks like Amazon came into pricing the Galaxy Nexus lower. On release date, hmmm... interesting. Half the price of Verizon, I wonder why?

But wait there is more.....

If you knew ANYTHING about third party retailers are they are usually free to drop the price of ANY PHONE!

http://techland.time.com/2011/06/06/well-this-is-interesting-walmart-drops-iphone-4-price-to-147/

Apples price was still $199

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Targ...f-its-iPhone-models-starting-tomorrow_id20780

Again apple didn't drop its price.

And it is not just limited to third party vendors either:

http://www.iphoneglance.com/index.php/2012/01/03/iphone-4s-price-drops-in-south-korea/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42481/vodafone-iphone-4s-deals-prices

 

[samcraig]

AT&T customers had to deal with contracts as well.



Sure, but I was addressing a specific argument - that the number of customers in the market doubled in the US. It did not. The iPhone was made more attractive to more customers in that market by supporting their carrier of choice.

Who's talking about ATT? (I thought) We were talking about the fact that by Apple partnering with Sprint and Verizon that it increased their market. Which it did.

The iPhone was made "more attractive" - that's really what you're going to go with? I'm genuinely surprised. Usually your arguments are very linear and literal. I think the other poster was right - you can't admit when you're wrong or at least acknowledge that it's all in the interpretation.

I've said that TECHNICALLY you are correct. But I've also maintained that your stance is simply not based in the real world.

 

[voonyx]

So now we are changing argument from "firesale"? You commented on some elses post about Amazon, a third party retailer, dropping the price of a phone as a sign of a firesale?

http://www.bgr.com/2011/12/15/amazon-drops-verizon-galaxy-nexus-price-to-149-99/

Oops looks like Amazon came into pricing the Galaxy Nexus lower. On release date, hmmm... interesting. Half the price of Verizon, I wonder why?

But wait there is more.....

If you knew ANYTHING about third party retailers are they are usually free to drop the price of ANY PHONE!

http://techland.time.com/2011/06/06/well-this-is-interesting-walmart-drops-iphone-4-price-to-147/

Apples price was still $199

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Targ...f-its-iPhone-models-starting-tomorrow_id20780

Again apple didn't drop its price.

And it is not just limited to third party vendors either:

http://www.iphoneglance.com/index.php/2012/01/03/iphone-4s-price-drops-in-south-korea/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42481/vodafone-iphone-4s-deals-prices

This is the exact same thing you did in the other thread when I said android fanboys said the iphone 4S would "NEVER" sell. You started harping on my use of the word NEVER as if I thought they meant that Apple would sell 0 units. OBVIOUSLY this is not a fire sale! Do you really think that I think that Google and Samsung are hemorrhaging money and need to unload the Nexii as fast as possible and report a loss? Goodness.

I don't know why everything has to be so literal for you to comprehend something. Maybe it's a language barrier? It makes you look incredibly silly if you assume that I think that this is a fire sale when all signs point to it NOT being a fire sale. How would I even argue such a stupid point?

My point, from the minute I quoted the person who said the words "fire sale" was that it's a supply and demand issue. Never once did I say anything about this being a fire sale. Stop harping on things that OTHER people say to further your point with me.

 

[dgree03]

Sorry could not resist. Got a kick out of both these items.

These charts will make the Fandroids want to puke.

Looks like there is already a fire sale on the just released Galaxy Nexus.

Yeah I just wrote about that over on my blog haha...of course to the android fanatics, it's because "Amazon is nice and gives its customers a break unlike Apple that is sooo overpriced"...another iPhone "killer" bites the dust. Geez the phone is not even 2 months old!

Hmmm, Really? You comment and High five(not literally ) that poster over his post about a firesale, but "I was not being literal"?

Either way, I am glad you finally admit it wasn't a firesale. It could of saved me a few posts to not have to bring you back down to earth.

This is the exact same thing you did in the other thread when I said android fanboys said the iphone 4S would "NEVER" sell. You started harping on my use of the word NEVER as if I thought they meant that Apple would sell 0 units. OBVIOUSLY this is not a fire sale! Do you really think that I think that Google and Samsung are hemorrhaging money and need to unload the Nexii as fast as possible and report a loss? Goodness.

I don't know why everything has to be so literal for you to comprehend something. Maybe it's a language barrier? It makes you look incredibly silly if you assume that I think that this is a fire sale when all signs point to it NOT being a fire sale. How would I even argue such a stupid point?

My point, from the minute I quoted the person who said the words "fire sale" was that it's a supply and demand issue. Never once did I say anything about this being a fire sale. Stop harping on things that OTHER people say to further your point with me.

 

[voonyx]

Hmmm, Really? You comment and High five(not literally ) that poster over his post about a firesale, but "I was not being literal"?

Either way, I am glad you finally admit it wasn't a firesale. It could of saved me a few posts to not have to bring you back down to earth.

I'm glad you finally comprehended what I was saying instead of assuming. Show me one place where I said it was a fire sale, and you'd be correct. You can't do that, can you? Because I never said it.

The "high five" discussed exactly what I've been discussing with you. That people like you would argue that it's because Amazon is being nice, when the truth is the phone is not selling (Again...not exactly sure why in the world you're trying to argue that it is, when all evidence points to the fact that the Nexus was "just another android phone") And guess what happened? I have a 2 page discussion with some guy who did exactly what I said he would. The phone is not selling and that's why the price dropped. Simple and plain. The "we're selling it just fine, but we want less money so we'll cut the price 66% and gain more customers" argument is silly.

Next time you want to call me out, call me out for something I actually said.

 

[dgree03]

I'm glad you finally comprehended what I was saying instead of assuming. Show me one place where I said it was a fire sale, and you'd be correct. You can't do that, can you? Because I never said it.

The "high five" discussed exactly what I've been discussing with you. That people like you would argue that it's because Amazon is being nice, when the truth is the phone is not selling (Again...not exactly sure why in the world you're trying to argue that it is, when all evidence points to the fact that the Nexus was "just another android phone")

Next time you want to call me out, call me out for something I actually said.

Random Guy :"The world is flat"
You: "I agree"

That is essentially what you did, of course you didn't type the word "FIRE SALE" but by quoting and adding commentary to that OP, you are insinuating that you agree with him(Based on the verbiage in your reply.)

I was arguing against your agreeing with that OP about a firesale, I should of included the OP in this discussion also, but I didn't, that is my fault. Then you seemed to have moved onto "Well its not selling well which is why the price dropped" then I pointed you to quite a few links to dispute that claim, as well as provided you specifics on what third party resellers can do with the price of ANY PHONE they sell.

What more do you want?

 

[voonyx]

Random Guy :"The world is flat"
You: "I agree"

That is essentially what you did, of course you didn't type the word "FIRE SALE" but by quoting and adding commentary to that OP, you are insinuating that you agree with him(Based on the verbiage in your reply.)

I was arguing against your agreeing with that OP about a firesale, I should of included the OP in this discussion also, but I didn't, that is my fault. Then you seemed to have moved onto "Well its not selling well which is why the price dropped" then I pointed you to quite a few links to dispute that claim, as well as provided you specifics on what third party resellers can do with the price of ANY PHONE they sell.

What more do you want?

You're assuming. Again, either you think I'm a complete moron (which very well might be the case if I actually thought this was a fire sale, but that would probably make you a moron too for thinking I'd think something so unbelievably dumb) or you have trouble comprehending things.

I don't even think the guy who said "fire sale" really thinks its a fire sale! It's just a way to point out that a phone that all these Android fanatics boasted would be the iPhone killer is very clearly not selling well and is already bested by other phones already available or in the pipeline and is now being slashed 66%. (And like I said, Verizon WILL follow suit by the middle of February to the end of February). They've done it with every android phone they have, and there's no reason this will be any different.

The mistake was yours for taking everything so literally. I understand its a forum and it's not easy to pick up on language nuances, but come on. In what world do you think I could possibly successfully argue that this was a fire sale?? I spoke about supply and demand from the beginning and that's all I ever spoke about, and that's ALL this is about. If there was a high demand for the phone, the price simply would not drop. You have no logical reason to explain why it would other then "we'll get more customers" but the fallacy there is if they had a huge demand, they'd be making more money then slashing the price 66%.

 

[farleysmaster]

This is extremely entertaining. But will it end in a slap or a kiss?

 

[voonyx]

This is extremely entertaining. But will it end in a slap or a kiss?

Wow generic "I don't care about this I'm just eating popcorn guy"...we never see that on forums

 

[KnightWRX]

What more do you want?

He wants the last word. Just move him to ignore, the goal posts will keep moving.

 

[farleysmaster]

You can all give me the last word and then I'll share my popcorn.

 

[voonyx]

You can all give me the last word and then I'll share my popcorn.

Boooo...that was kinda lame.

He wants the last word. Just move him to ignore, the goal posts will keep moving.

Any updates on the companies that sit on patents all the time? Or the "many countries" that sell the iPhone for free? Take your time though, you'll find it.

 

[farleysmaster]

Boooo...that was kinda lame.

I keep checking this thread in case someone has something to say, or engage with, but keep seeing an email conversation playing out in a public forum?

Two negative points for being (kinda) lame and turning down free popcorn.

 

[voonyx]

I keep checking this thread in case someone has something to say, or engage with, but keep seeing an email conversation playing out in a public forum?

Two negative points for being (kinda) lame and turning down free popcorn.

you must be new to the internet. you're shocked that two people have differing opinions and are arguing on a forum?? where have been?

 

[dgree03]

You're assuming. Again, either you think I'm a complete moron (which very well might be the case if I actually thought this was a fire sale, but that would probably make you a moron too for thinking I'd think something so unbelievably dumb) or you have trouble comprehending things.

You agreed with the post, not me. I don't have to be smart or dumb to realize that. Why else would you quote and then proceed to add more commentary further supporting his claims. He started with hyperbole and you took it an ran with it also. You are just as guilty as he is.

I don't even think the guy who said "fire sale" really thinks its a fire sale! It's just a way to point out that a phone that all these Android fanatics boasted would be the iPhone killer is very clearly not selling well and is already bested by other phones already available or in the pipeline and is now being slashed 66%. (And like I said, Verizon WILL follow suit by the middle of February to the end of February). They've done it with every android phone they have, and there's no reason this will be any different.

Maybe he was. maybe he wasn't but you are still assuming what he means.
Either way its a little late to ask that question since you took his words, quoted it, added your words supporting the claim which included NOTHING about supply and demand (your original reply)

The mistake was yours for taking everything so literally. I understand its a forum and it's not easy to pick up on language nuances, but come on. In what world do you think I could possibly successfully argue that this was a fire sale?? I spoke about supply and demand from the beginning and that's all I ever spoke about, and that's ALL this is about. If there was a high demand for the phone, the price simply would not drop. You have no logical reason to explain why it would other then "we'll get more customers" but the fallacy there is if they had a huge demand, they'd be making more money then slashing the price 66%.

My mistake for calling out hyperbole or agreeing with hyperbole? Thats a stretch.

Let me ask you this, when the iPhone 4s, iPhone 4, or 3GS drops in price, is it because it wasn't selling well? It rhetorical actually, because we all know that isnt true. It drops because a new version is out.

Same can be said with android. A new phone might come out in 2 months, so they(Verizon) might drop the price. Doesn't mean the phone wasn't selling well before the price drop.

 

[voonyx]

You agreed with the post, not me. I don't have to be smart or dumb to realize that. Why else would you quote and then proceed to add more commentary further supporting his claims. He started with hyperbole and you took it an ran with it also. You are just as guilty as he is.

Again, I guess I simply could not comprehend how someone could think that the point I was arguing everytime I mentioned supply and demand the past three pages was that this was a fire sale. I clearly gave you too much credit and for that I apologize.

Maybe he was. maybe he wasn't but you are still assuming what he means.
Either way its a little late to ask that question since you took his words, quoted it, added your words supporting the claim which included NOTHING about supply and demand (your original reply)

He absolutely was. If he ever comments again, I'm sure he'll say he was. If he says he wasn't then I will apologize to you. It was hyperbole, simple and plain for everyone to see (except you and KnightWRX, apparently. Again, is it a language barrier? I don't get what else it could be where that sailed over your head).

My mistake for calling out hyperbole or agreeing with hyperbole? Thats a stretch.

Let me ask you this, when the iPhone 4s, iPhone 4, or 3GS drops in price, is it because it wasn't selling well? It rhetorical actually, because we all know that isnt true. It drops because a new version is out.

Same can be said with android. A new phone might come out in 2 months, so they(Verizon) might drop the price. Doesn't mean the phone wasn't selling well before the price drop.

Well yeah you're right, but how come when the iPhone sells well, Verizon announces how great a launch it had, and we've never heard that about a single android phone ever? Oh is this the part where we delve into conspiracy theory? Maybe Apple pays Verizon to do this? Oooh, fancy!

What new phone came out that made the Rezound drop in price in less then 2 months? It released AFTER the Nexus if I recall correctly. Your theory doesn't hold weight because that's just not what's happening, and to prove that that's not what's happening all you have to do is literally 2 minutes of research.

 

[dgree03]

Again, I guess I simply could not comprehend how someone could think that the point I was arguing everytime I mentioned supply and demand the past three pages was that this was a fire sale. I clearly gave you too much credit and for that I apologize.

I was talking about your original post, are you lost in this discussion?

He absolutely was. If he ever comments again, I'm sure he'll say he was. If he says he wasn't then I will apologize to you. It was hyperbole, simple and plain for everyone to see (except you and KnightWRX, apparently. Again, is it a language barrier? I don't get what else it could be where that sailed over your head).

Absolutely huh? Well I guess we may or may not ever know. Unless your native language is something other than english, then there is not a language barrier for me. There is a BS barrier tho.

Well yeah you're right, but how come when the iPhone sells well, Verizon announces how great a launch it had, and we've never heard that about a single android phone ever? Oh is this the part where we delve into conspiracy theory? Maybe Apple pays Verizon to do this? Oooh, fancy!

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355916,00.asp

Nope no conspiracy theories here. You are moving goal posts again. I was not discussing about how well the iPhone sells, apple does a good job letting us know that.

What new phone came out that made the Rezound drop in price in less then 2 months? It released AFTER the Nexus if I recall correctly. Your theory doesn't hold weight because that's just not what's happening, and to prove that that's not what's happening all you have to do is literally 2 minutes of research.

Rezound(Nov 16th) came out one month before the Galaxy Nexus. Rezound was just discounted on Verizon on January 9th to $199.

 

[voonyx]

I was talking about your original post, are you lost in this discussion?

Again. I gave you too much credit and I apologized for that.

Absolutely huh? Well I guess we may or may not ever know. Unless your native language is something other than english, then there is not a language barrier for me. There is a BS barrier tho.

Yes. I can unequivocally say absolutely. I'm frankly amazed that you could possibly think otherwise. And yes, the BS barrier is strong with you.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355916,00.asp

Nope no conspiracy theories here. You are moving goal posts again. I was not discussing about how well the iPhone sells, apple does a good job letting us know that.

Ok that's fair. You found one article LOL. Anyway, that still doesn't answer the question I asked which was if these phones are selling so well, for what reason would they be dropped? Who cares if a new version comes out? Wait...am I moving goalposts?? There's no comparison to Apple because Apple's product cycle is 1 year. So when a new version comes out the old version is a year old, at the minimum. Why are 1 month and 2 month old phones, that you seem to be claiming are in demand, being dropped in price? Like I said your "we want more customers" theory doesn't hold water because by dropping these phones you're NOT seeing an explosion of sales of these phones. It's simply a "let's get rid of them and move on" strategy.

You know what, let me ask you an even simpler question. Are you saying that the Galaxy Nexus is in high demand?

Rezound(Nov 16th) came out one month before the Galaxy Nexus. Rezound was just discounted on Verizon on January 9th to $199.

Ok, that's fine and my mistake. Still, if you could answer the question I've asked multiple times, what logical reason would companies have for dropping these phones 1 month after their release if they are selling well, as you seem to be claiming they are. If you're not claiming that, please make that clear.

 

[farleysmaster]

you must be new to the internet. you're shocked that two people have differing opinions and are arguing on a forum?? where have been?

There's a whole world of stupid stuff that doesn't shock me.

It's still two people having subjective arguments about something that doesn't matter, and not feeling the least bit embarrassed. Most people say their point accept that some people agree and some people don't and move on. Or you know carry the conversation on in private.

If you guys want to carry on... well that'll be something you can agree on.

 

[voonyx]

There's a whole world of stupid stuff that doesn't shock me.

It's still two people having subjective arguments about something that doesn't matter, and not feeling the least bit embarrassed. Most people say their point accept that some people agree and some people don't and move on. Or you know carry the conversation on in private.

If you guys want to carry on... well that'll be something you can agree on.

And it's a third person saying he doesn't care about it and continuing to post on it with the "two people" who aren't the "least bit embarrassed". Don't forget what you're doing too...I'll put you on ignore now, something you could have easily done as well, but of course that would prevent you from seeing something you don't care about.

And dgree this is pretty fitting, no? Even with the free 3GS, Apple's average selling price remains consistent.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1314779/