Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook

[e-coli]

This is such a suburb-centric employee letter. I loathe working from home. For those of us in NYC, SF, Boston, etc. our homes are not designed to be full-time home offices. My kitchen table now looks like an IT department with my wife and I working from it for 15 months. I hate, loathe, abhor looking into a WebEx for 9 hours a day. I miss human beings, spontaneity, serendipity. In short, for a lot of us, this WFH situation sucks.

 

[Ethosik]

Remote working is not only about whether or not workers can be equally productive when working from home vs working in the office.

It also has to recognize that not all workers are equally responsible in working effectively when at home. Some are, others will abuse it and not be putting in the same effort they would, if at the office.

Managing that is a new challenge that companies are still working out. Some workers may be more suited to remote working, others may be directed to return to working at the office simply because they did not demonstrate the discipline required when working remotely.

My own company is in the process of returning workers to office work, and anyone who is still working remotely is also expected to be available at the office on reasonable notice (1 hour, generally) if something comes up that requires their physical presence.

I began working in my office even before my company asked that I make that change (and they still have not, formally). And I have no objection in being required to return to the office full time if that is what the company decides is required. I expect that the telework option will continue to be available, for example during those occasional times when weather or other conditions make office work problematic.

There are pros and cons to office work and telework, neither is what I would call perfect.

Many people abuse the water cooler talk or coffee breaks. I know some people that spend an hour or more just talking. Then taking an hour or so for lunch. Yeah very productive in office.

 

[4jasontv]

This is such a suburb-centric employee letter. I loathe working from home. For those of us in NYC, SF, Boston, etc. our homes are not designed to be full-time home offices. My kitchen table now looks like an IT department with my wife and I working from it for 15 months. I hate, loathe, abhor looking into a WebEx for 9 hours a day. I miss human beings, spontaneity, serendipity. In short, for a lot of us, this WFH situation sucks.

Yes. This is true. Does it bother you that I can have 40 acres and your salary?

 

[I7guy]

This is 2021....with Zoom and Skype and many others. There really is not a BIG need to meet in person anymore.

In your situation not mine. Zoom was a stop gap and it showed the world there are alternatives to meeting face to face. As a blanket statement it falls short.

While I do appreciate some team bonding time, that can still be done via Zoom. Its actually quite fun, looking at someone's home office and chatting about it. Instead of in-person meetings that try to come up with topics to discuss that doesn't hit with all employees in the room. Like sports (I do NOT like sports) or kids (I do not have kids and probably won't as its not something I really want). Yeah I can't really participate in those conversations.

 

[genovelle]

I think the one thing that is highly underrated about an actual meeting is that the bidirectional communication of information can be a lot faster if the moderator does a good job keeping folks on point. There are some cases where there was a lack of moderation and the meeting fell apart. That is location agnostic.

Usually if I can't solve something within a few slack messages, I will jump on a Zoom because it's just faster especially with screen sharing.

There is a certain level of communication that is lost on zoom meetings because body language and other physical cues which can be masked of hidden off camera. So, an in-depth strategy session, cross training, multi-team collaborations all become less effective. Being able to get up walk to the person working on another piece of the puzzle with a question and have them be able to draw a sketch of their idea and incorporate your input on the spot is invaluable.
A great company has all types of learners including visual and hands on. Some are fine on a zoom call, others won’t be as effective making the entire company suffer.

 

[Ethosik]

Just to preface... my work before the pandemic already had a remote work culture so transitioning into the pandemic was trivial.

Living in NYC as an engineering tech lead, my productivity before pandemic and during pandemic is close to the same, if not a little worse. Worse meaning I no longer really go outside until weekends, and now my commute times are basically work times. I work on devices, so I don't have space in my small studio with my partner to store things. My work environment since March of the pandemic is a folding table and a sofa. Thankfully, I have a gym in my building. Instead of answering Slack on the train to work, I am already active on the laptop. Now, some might construe that as being productive, but effectively it means I'm working for more hours at a lower hourly rate. I also prefer to work in the office, so I can separate my work environment from my home environment. In lieu of "stopped in the hall", I have to contend with in-home distractions from my partner because they require attention.

I do enjoy what I do, but I am pointing out that many people can feel "healthier" working in the office.

I consider that to be more productive. If I get on a roll development wise at 4:45, I no longer need to log out at 5 PM to drive home. I can now keep working past 5 PM, take a short break for dinner and get right back to work, or keep working while I eat. I have worked until 10PM a few times just because I was on a roll and just kept going.

 

[ipponrg]

The human body can heal from lashes. Should companies be able to whip employees since they can adapt?

Of course not.

If you feel stress is the same as getting whiplashed, then we have very different definitions.

 

[Ethosik]

In your situation not mine. Zoom was a stop gap and it showed the world there are alternatives to meeting face to face. As a blanket statement it falls short.

Explain how meeting in person is better than in a group call? So we can smell each other (I used to have to sit next to a heavy smoker and it irritated me like crazy)?

 

[I7guy]

Many people abuse the water cooler talk or coffee breaks. I know some people that spend an hour or more just talking. Then taking an hour or so for lunch. Yeah very productive in office.

Those water cooler discussions can be key to innovation. That’s what’s missing with zoom calls.

 

[4jasontv]

Of course not.

If you feel stress is the same as getting whiplashed, then we have very different definitions.

The point is that any avoidable stress should be avoided.

 

[I7guy]

Explain how meeting in person is better than in a group call? So we can smell each other (I used to have to sit next to a heavy smoker and it irritated me like crazy)?

Low level details take much longer to iron out on zoom vs in-person based on my year+ of WFH.

 

[4jasontv]

Explain how meeting in person is better than in a group call? So we can smell each other (I used to have to sit next to a heavy smoker and it irritated me like crazy)?

Ditto. Not only did I have to smell them they got to take extra breaks in order to make the smell stronger.

 

[Ethosik]

This is kind of a tangent, but there's a recent Netflix documentary on how the human body deals with stress. The more your body is exposed to it, the more it can adapt and perform. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. I used to be super stress about work and driving back when I lived in a metro drivable city, but I noticed that I started to get used to the stress. My blood pressure at the beginning was fairly high (i.e. my body was physically flushed red), but when my body adapted, it began to regulate to normal. Now I'm addicted to the "stress" - which arguably is a bad thing

Yeah I did not have good reactions to the constant stress. I had too high of a resting heart rate due to all the stress I had. Since working from home, that resting heart rate is now great and I am so much more relaxed.

 

[Silverstring]

I know your question was to another, but I wanted to add that responding to body language and whiteboarding are 2 of the things I can think of at least from my field.

I appreciate the response!

I’m not a remote worker currently, but I have experienced remote stretches both now and in past positions

Obviously everyone’s job and experiences vary, but for me:

- virtual whiteboarding worked just as well
- as far as body language is concerned, I didn’t see a disadvantage when it came to calls/meetings with video. To me, both in person and remotely, it’s less “body” language and more “posture, upper torso, and facial microexpressions” language…which are preserved on video. I don’t think my “reads” would be materially different with legs/lower body included, since even in meeting rooms, those are usually under a desk anyway.

Which isn’t meant to refute your point in any way, just interesting to me how experiences differ!

 

[Ethosik]

Ditto. Not only did I have to smell them they got to take extra breaks in order to make the smell stronger.

Also, I no longer need to hear two people in the conference room having a side conversation when I am trying to listen to the scrum master. Please, keep those side conversations out of the meetings!

 

[ipponrg]

The point is that any avoidable stress should be avoided.

Yeah, I agree if it can be avoided. However, the reality is that decisions are made in leadership that create stress. So you just have to embrace it and adapt. If you don't or can't cope with it, then it's definitely going to be painful during your stay!

 

[4jasontv]

Also, I no longer need to hear two people in the conference room having a side conversation when I am trying to listen to the scrum master. Please, keep those side conversations out of the meetings!

I found remote work improved the quality of side conversations because now there was no social pressure to hide a chat window, phone, or whisper. I could just message someone else in a meeting and ask them a question.

 

[Ethosik]

Those water cooler discussions can be key to innovation. That’s what’s missing with zoom calls.

About sports? Kids? That is all the water cooler talk is at the office. Coming up with innovative ideas via a 5 minute water cooler talk is not as common as people here think it is.

 

[cmaier]

Well since they work in the spaceship they are likely designers or engineers of some kind. The average Apple design engineers makes $150,000-300,000 according to indeed. This is 74% higher than the national average.

What’s interesting is that Apple has the reputation in the valley of paying less than other big tech companies. And I know folks who took pay cuts to go there (though, long term, they likely got more than even thanks to stock purchase plans and bonuses and such). People work there because it’s a chance to work on great stuff with great people.

 

[I7guy]

I’m not refuting you or saying you’re wrong…but can you expand on this?

What can you point to specifically that is lost for you in a Zoom meeting? How are you less effective that way?

Is there anything tangible or quantitive about the productivity loss, or do you just feel more effective in person?

I’m genuinely asking.

Managing a team is more difficult remotely. On boarding new employees is more difficult. Ironing out low level details is more difficult. Planning resources are more difficult.

edit: if I look back on the last year WFH I average about 11+ hours a day, when in the office I worked about 9 hours. Overall i feel that productivity has remained constant, but I’d rather be in my car, then spend more time in front of the computer.
Company CEO might disagree on the efficiency and productivity.

 

[vinsalducci]

If someone feels that strongly about working from home, they might very well be looking at other opportunities. Just because nobody quit yet, doesn't mean they are not looking. I know I will need to make a decision if I am required to come back to the office if I want to look elsewhere. I still won't quit a job without having a new one available.

And if someone who works for me feels that strongly about it, then I encourage them to look for a job that better fits their requirements.

Employers lay out the parameters that govern a given position, from productivity expectations to hours of work among countless other variables. Employers have the right to change those based on the requirements of the company. And if that job no longer fits the employee's life requirements or expectations, they are empowered to find alternate employment.

 

[cmaier]

About sports? Kids? That is all the water cooler talk is at the office. Coming up with innovative ideas via a 5 minute water cooler talk is not as common as people here think it is.

I‘ve worked in Silicon Valley since 1996, and I can assure you that many of the best ideas arise out of unplanned interactions. In fact, I struggle to think of anything great that ever came out of a scheduled meeting.

 

[4jasontv]

Yeah, I agree if it can be avoided. However, the reality is that decisions are made in leadership that create stress. So you just have to embrace it and adapt. If you don't or can't cope with it, then it's definitely going to be painful during your stay!

The issue is that those making the decision are not considering stress at all. The circumstances of working in a wood factory with one exit that is sealed shut during business hours is different than asking people to work in a modern office, but the motivation is the same. Profit over employee safety and satisfaction.

 

[cmaier]

I’m not refuting you or saying you’re wrong…but can you expand on this?

What can you point to specifically that is lost for you in a Zoom meeting? How are you less effective that way?

Is there anything tangible or quantitive about the productivity loss, or do you just feel more effective in person?

I’m genuinely asking.

Did we all suddenly forget about “zoom fatigue” now that’s time to go back to work?

 

[genovelle]

Calling them spoiled bratz is pure ignorance. The pandemic is a once in a lifetime opportunity to learn new ways of living and working. With the internet we have new opportunities to create a better world, and the pandemic has learned most people a valuable lesson we simply can’t ignore. Working from home for more than a year has given me more quality time with my family, less stress and way more energy towards my work than ever before. I save 1.5 hours of transport every day which goes to the above. Think about the decrease in pollution, decrease in stress related illnesses, which costs society huge amounts of money. Its win win for everbody. Let people decide and trust each other. And stop the trolling stating people will use it as an excuse to slack at home (thief thinks everyone steals).

They are spoiled brats. If they don’t want to commute quit and find another job like some of their coworkers. Others will happily take their places.