Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook

[cmaier]

Yes, I do not know how working in the office = healthier. Have some of these people that make this argument been to an office before? Group lunches are always "Lets go to McDonalds/Wendys/BurgerKing/whatever".

Pretty sure nobody working at Apple’s HQ is going to mcdonalds, wendys, Burger King, or whatever. I mean, maybe In ’n Out or BJs, but not the places you listed. More likely Aqui, Oren’s Hummus, or one of the many fine dim sum restaurants that are very close by.

 

[cmaier]

On the other side of the bridge Microsoft let it’s employees work from home permanently.

And, looking at Windows, it shows!

(I kid)

 

[I7guy]

If I need to define the obvious to you, you're not worth my time.

The fact that you wrote a generalized baseless statement that can’t be quantified is not my issue…

 

[FrozenDarkness]

People don’t realize that post-pandemic is not the same as pandemic. Pandemic is everyone is working from home, post-pandemic will be a mix of both. Speaking as a tech worker, I’m not acutally sure how big companies are supposed to handle this. Smaller companies can probably still maintain full WFH and not much will change, but there’s no way the entire apple workforce can WFH permanently. Just speaking of the people working on hardware, there’s no way they can make the iPhone with everyone WFH permanently.

A mixture of both will cause more stress IMHO. People in the office will be like “well if so and so isn’t here, why am i here?” or “if so and so isn’t here, let’s just make the decision without so and so.“ I don’t think it’s an easy problem to solve to be inclusive of everybody’s wishes.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

What the f***? As a nurse, I can only dream of 'Three days of in person work a week', with the rest being from home. This comes across as severe entitlement. You have to choose between family and work if you go in three days a week? What do you think the rest of the working world does every single day? Try working overnight shifts, double shifts, weekends etc on a regular basis. Bloody hell.

While your job is no doubt very difficult, there is no reason that other jobs should require the same schedule just because yours is. Why not try to get that flexibility if that can be an option for your occupation? The vast majority of office work in the world can be done at home with the occasional in-person meeting.

 

[Phil77354]

. . . A mixture of both will cause more stress IMHO. People in the office will be like “well if so and so isn’t here, why am i here?” or “if so and so isn’t here, let’s just make the decision without so and so.“ I don’t think it’s an easy problem to solve to be inclusive of everybody’s wishes.

Very good points.

It took time to adjust to teleworking, and it will take time to returning to whatever our 'new normal' turns out to be.

One very positive outcome is that even non-technology companies now recognize that teleworking can be a part of the mix. My company absolutely prohibited working from home prior to the pandemic. We will certainly not return to that restriction.

 

[Ethosik]

Pretty sure nobody working at Apple’s HQ is going to mcdonalds, wendys, Burger King, or whatever. I mean, maybe In ’n Out or BJs, but not the places you listed. More likely Aqui, Oren’s Hummus, or one of the many fine dim sum restaurants that are very close by.

Forgive me I do not live by Apple campus. But I think my comment conveyed the message I was attempting to make. Regardless of what fast food or restaurant is available, the point still remains.

 

[isoft7]

I'm a little surprised by the anger of some in this thread... really weird, all you all sit around and gush of your love for Apple products but when the people behind those products express humanistic opinions they're dumped on like they're idiots.

Confusing.

The internet is kind of a hell hole aint it.

 

[TonnyM]

And I’d like to work sitting at the swimming pool, sipping margaritas. I swear I’ll be super productive then.

 

[astrocramp]

While I may not be currently working for a glorious fortune 500 company as you are, I've been working remotely 100% for years. And when the company's HQ lease was up in NYC this Spring, the company decided to go almost fully remote after having been just as productive (and in many ways MORE productive) during the pandemic.

Corporate America isn't entirely run by insecure, archaic thinkers.

Allowing some people to work remote 100% of the time could be a win-win, Apple could allow those employees to opt to work at home full time, then Apple can reduce their pay. Original comp was set assuming the employee has commuting expenses, is required to live in high cost of living close to Cupertino, and participate more in company culture. With those expenses not part of the equation there's certainly grounds to reduce associated comp, while the WFH employee gains their perceived value of staying at home.

 

[Markarian421]

The new remote working policy is a distinctive easing compare to the company's previous working from home policy

This part is not true, which is why many employees are confused. They don’t understand why is Apple becoming less flexible after a year with everyone working from home and the record profits to show it works.

It’s a misconception that everyone is in the new building — even in California people are still spread across multiple buildings and campuses. And with Apple moving more jobs to Texas and other locations, members of a team or project are rarely all in one location. Many people spend the day on the phone or in video conferences even if they are in the office, and working alone when not in meetings. Working from home has just meant not wasting time in traffic and having a couple more hours a day.

I don’t work at Apple, but where I work there were similar concerns early in the pandemic that people would not work if they were remote, and everyone’s manager started making extra effort to track work. By a month or so in they realized most people were getting more work done, and the concern evaporated. We’ve even had some people set up permanent remote work arrangements so they can move to another state. It seems like maybe Apple’s execs are too removed from the workforce to see that.

 

[assb10yr]

Just fire the bums. Then they can work permanently from home or from the streets of LA or SF.

 

[cmaier]

Just fire the bums. Then they can work permanently from home or from the streets of LA or SF.

Why LA or SF?

 

[Silverstring]

It’s a matter of meeting face to face, and efficiency.

I don’t know what kind of work you do, but guessing you’ve never had tons of meetings that could’ve been emails, colleagues that take 45 minutes to say what could have been both written and read by all stakeholders in 20, and 10 people in an hour meeting (10 hours of aggregate staff resource time) to communicate some info/announcements that could have taken each person 5 minutes to read (50 minutes of asynchronous aggregate staff time), and maybe an extra 10 minutes each for an exchange with 2 of the 10 impacted who had a follow up question.

Or, a situation where a supposedly more efficient “face to face” meeting necessitates follow up meetings to clarify because everything in the original meeting was communicated orally, and out of the 10 attendees, there are 6 different recollections of what was said and agreed upon without official written documentation of such.

Must be nice!

I’m not naive enough to suggest that face to face is NEVER the best and/or most efficient option…but in many offices, it frequently isn’t.

 

[ipponrg]

Yes, I do not know how working in the office = healthier. Have some of these people that make this argument been to an office before? Group lunches are always "Lets go to McDonalds/Wendys/BurgerKing/whatever". I have severely limited my "bad for your health" lunches since working from home. Making my own sandwiches and things.

Not everyone is the same. Yes, some people have 5 kids, 4 dogs and 3 cats that impact their work. But not everyone is like this. I am single, have no pets, have a dedicated office to cut down on distractions. My productivity shot through the roof working from home. You think productivity will INCREASE when people get back to the office? It will take a nose dive especially at the start "Hey Tom, been a while since we saw each other huh, nice beard!" - then talking for 10+ minutes. Then someone else stops Tom for another 10 minutes. Working from home, if I am busy with something and someone sends me a Slack message, I can ignore it for a few minutes until I finish my thought. Instead of being "stopped in the hall" and lose my train of thought.

Just to preface... my work before the pandemic already had a remote work culture so transitioning into the pandemic was trivial.

Living in NYC as an engineering tech lead, my productivity before pandemic and during pandemic is close to the same, if not a little worse. Worse meaning I no longer really go outside until weekends, and now my commute times are basically work times. I work on devices, so I don't have space in my small studio with my partner to store things. My work environment since March of the pandemic is a folding table and a sofa. Thankfully, I have a gym in my building. Instead of answering Slack on the train to work, I am already active on the laptop. Now, some might construe that as being productive, but effectively it means I'm working for more hours at a lower hourly rate. I also prefer to work in the office, so I can separate my work environment from my home environment. In lieu of "stopped in the hall", I have to contend with in-home distractions from my partner because they require attention.

I do enjoy what I do, but I am pointing out that many people can feel "healthier" working in the office.

 

[astrocramp]

Lots of ideas, problem solving, relationship building, and innovation result from unplanned conversation.

People really underestimate this. A great chunk of ideas and business solutions come from bumping into somebody at the employee cafe, coffee station, stairs, etc. On remote meetings, everything is planned and directed, so you miss spontaneous interactions that are so important.

I could see allowing a small group of employees to work 100% from home, but then just pay them less. It wouldn't be fair to have to those that commute and commit to earn the same as a 100% WFH. Certainly WFH will stymie career development, but that's fine for some people.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I'm a little surprised by the anger of some in this thread... really weird, all you all sit around and gush of your love for Apple products but when the people behind those products express humanistic opinions they're dumped on like they're idiots.

Confusing.

The internet is kind of a hell hole aint it.

I usually wear a helmet when on the internet. There is always incoming.

 

[Attirex]

Been working remotely for 15 years. Welcome to the party!

 

[kittonian]

Upper management being completely disconnected from reality is one of the big reasons I left Apple almost 20 years ago. The idea that your entire life should revolve around Apple, the Apple campus, and connections with other Apple employees was ridiculous (to me). I have a wife and a life outside of Apple and they were constantly concerned with why I wasn't coming in early to have breakfast with other members of my team, going out for drinks after work with members of my team, and basically spending my entire life with members of my team. My tenure with Apple at 1 Infinite Loop was very short lived. Love the products (more so when Steve when alive, but still a fan) but could not stand the corporate culture.

 

[dukebound85]

spoiled overpaid brats

you're just jealous

 

[I7guy]

While I may not be currently working for a glorious fortune 500 company as you are, I've been working remotely 100% for years. And when the company's HQ lease was up in NYC this Spring, the company decided to go almost fully remote after having been just as productive (and in many ways MORE productive) during the pandemic.

Corporate America isn't entirely run by insecure, archaic thinkers.

My two sons and me have all been notified that we will have to be back in the office in the latter part of the year.

Our employees have been rewarded for the super-human effort that happened during COVID with the impediment of not being able to work face to face to get jobs done as effectively and efficiently as being done in the office.

I fully acknowledge there is a universe of employee, consultants and contractors that can work anywhere. What that universe is, the demographics, the pay scale etc can’t be determined.

Where management has determined that collaboration is necessary then there will be a decal to the office.

 

[Silverstring]

And I’d like to work sitting at the swimming pool, sipping margaritas. I swear I’ll be super productive then.

These people are not asking to do less work, they’re saying they can maintain or increase their output without being physically present.

Unless you think that physical presence is required to maintain performance in every possible job case, in which case I’d ask why you think that?

 

[assb10yr]

Do you want to retain your best employees by giving them the flexibility to work remote? If not, then they will just go somewhere that will.

Or, do you want the employees that are willing to show up in the office?

Only slackers want to work from home. So I would fire the slackers asses.

 

[genovelle]

Soooo, if I’m willing to go in all 5 days, just for a job there, will I be called a scab? 😅

Count me in! I’ll gladly take their salaries, let’s get to work.

 

[Ethosik]

What kind of housing do they live in? Many of us live in cheaply built apartments or homes with thin walls. There's nothing like trying to go heads down but you're unable to due to lawn mowers, construction, loud neighbors and other noises. Even with high end noise canceling headphones you can't block all sounds. Office buildings are far better constructed and suited for, I don't know, work? I can live with the sounds of my coworkers talking, that's a normal expected sound, but when it's lawn mower right outside of your cheaply constructed apartment, it's something else.

This is not entirely true. A lawnmower once a week for an hour is better than an open office environment where people are SO CHATTY ALL....THE....TIME. That is a far bigger distraction than being inside when a lawnmower is going on. And what if construction is by your office building?