Maybe not spite - how about as a way to justify costly real estate or for middle-management ranks to justify their continued existence?
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Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook
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Maybe not spite - how about as a way to justify costly real estate or for middle-management ranks to justify their continued existence?
But why not get rid of the real estate? Cost-cutting is usually one of the best ways for management types to distinguish themselves in the eyes of their superiors.
Management of any level and even directors can be good or bad at their jobs, that has always been the case. The same can be said for people in senior or general positions too. Some people are company people and some are lazy and do just enough if they are managed. This is why working from home works for some and not all and it’s down to the company to decide what works best for the business. Whether someone prefers working from home or not does not usually enter the equation. Some people prefer a half day on a Friday to extend their weekend, but like WFH, it’s a perk.
I had fun with this thread. Reality is in no time most people will be back commuting their lives away, be tired and less productive at work, desperately seek a parking spot, be in never-ending meetings not serving a dialogue but a top down communication spiced with everlasting data serving no goal but middle management "proving" its "worth" because we must suck it up. And yes, we will nod enthusiastically.
People do this in the office too. Taking a lot of coffee breaks, a lot of water cooler talk and more.
Exactly! As if people believe people don't slack off at work!!!
So many genuine wasters at my last office amongst the good guys browsing Facebook all day long.....walking past them and watching the lightning-fast alt+tab.
If anything, those who slack in the office, will slack off more at home and become even more noticeable and even more dispensable.
Bless their little cotton socks lol. Imagine having to actually go to work and putting yourself out in order to be present in your workplace? This last 12 months has been an eye opener where everybody is offended by everything and people now think they shouldn’t have to leave their sofa in order to earn that 40 grand a year! I jumped at the chance to split my time between workplace and home, a little bit of normality returning after a rubbish period in history.
But if someone is only working hard because they have a manager “managing” them in a physical office space, then is that person really that valuable to the company? I’d think it would be easier for management to figure out who the weak links are once the “lazy” people stop being productive at home.
People like you amaze me. So stuck in the “back in my day” mentality that you’re brain can’t comprehend that sometimes something comes along that’s just better than how you grew up. I’m glad that you enjoy going into the office, spending less time with your family, spending hours a week in traffic, spending money on gas and parking. If this is where you find happiness, then reach for the stars my friend.
for many of us, we’ve discovered that there is a better way. You can call us entitled, spoiled, whiny, or whatever else you want, but the benefits of working from home are better for the average person. That’s why SOO many don’t want to return. No one here is telling you that you shouldn’t go into the office, so by all means, put on your suit and tie, grab your lunch box, go into the office and pull out your type writer. Bang away at those keys for as many hours as you feel will validate your self worth and “I work hard because I’m in the office” mentality.
I’m sure the company I work for weren’t the only one that jumped on the government furlough scheme and then made most redundant some months later to save money and get rid of the deadwood. Of course WFH exposed the lazy ones too. It’s not necessarily about people needing to be closely managed on every individual basis, but companies wanting their HQ’s and factories having a staff presence and a sense of normality. It’s not ideal to be continuously phoning people to ask questions and constant video meetings when these people can safety be back at their desks for 3 days a week.
I think if you take this thread for instance, it’s a good metric to see the vast majority see the benefit of being back at work, whereas the ones who think about their wants first are putting the business second. That perception may be right and it may be wrong, but it’s a very similar mentality to the few that tried to challenge my company when returning was encouraged. A lot of people lost their jobs during the pandemic and I saw 33 members lost from my work. Those left were happy to have a job and coming in for 3 days a week was a tiny a sacrifice if it can even be called that. These people at Apple work in one of the finest workplaces in the developed world. I don’t have an ounce of sympathy if I’m honest
Why do you keep framing this as an either/or in which WFH is great and the office is awful? I live six blocks from my office and haven’t worn a tie in over a decade. There are middle grounds here.
Making a lot of assumption there about me without knowing anything. I’m not ‘stuck in a back in the day’ mentality as that would be counterproductive in my role as I’m very much involved in sourcing new technologies and making sure my company provide these technologies to car companies, racing teams and the aerospace sector. I’m still a young man lol.
Indeed and some of us have worked from home for many years before the pandemic even started yet these people read parts of posts and miss the context
Really? I got a warning for using the word snowflake. They censor based on their own agenda all the time. We old timers who have been here since the beginning sure are saddened by the lack of objectivity and respect for other opinions by MR.
I didn't say perfect nor did I say that there haven't been insults or off-topic posts. You may disagree but, from my participation experience and from what I saw over the weekend, it was fairly civil from what MR threads can get to.
See that’s funny, I wouldn’t look at this thread and think “the majority of people agree the office has benefits”. With that said theirs 42 pages of comments and I’m not going to flip through all of them and do a sentiment analysis.I’m sure the company I work for weren’t the only one that jumped on the government furlough scheme and then made most redundant some months later to save money and get rid of the deadwood. Of course WFH exposed the lazy ones too. It’s not necessarily about people needing to be closely managed on every individual basis, but companies wanting their HQ’s and factories having a staff presence and a sense of normality. It’s not ideal to be continuously phoning people to ask questions and constant video meetings when these people can safety be back at their desks for 3 days a week.
I think if you take this thread for instance, it’s a good metric to see the vast majority see the benefit of being back at work, whereas the ones who think about their wants first are putting the business second. That perception may be right and it may be wrong, but it’s a very similar mentality to the few that tried to challenge my company when returning was encouraged. A lot of people lost their jobs during the pandemic and I saw 33 members lost from my work. Those left were happy to have a job and coming in for 3 days a week was a tiny a sacrifice if it can even be called that. These people at Apple work in one of the finest workplaces in the developed world. I don’t have an ounce of sympathy if I’m honest
Again you can say guys like us are only thinking of ourselves and not for what’s in the companies best interest, but that’s not the employees responsibility. If I no longer provide value to the company, they aren’t going to take my best interest into account before they fire me. IF Apple started losing their employees AND having a hard time finding quality employee, then what do you think they will do? The second in office work becomes an impediment to Apple, they will back off.
The reality is, this isn’t going away. The younger generation doesn’t care what the status quo is, they want what they want. Whether you like it or not, the millennials and younger are on the way up, while boomers are on the way out. Get used to deal with “entitled snowflakes”.
Mentality doesn’t preclude you from being able to use technology. My comments were more to highlight that times change, society and technology evolves, and there is ALWAYS someone that fights it. Remember when suits in the office were a requirement? Then eventually people realize how stupid that is in most situations (not saying all, but most). Did you embrace that change or did you act like anyone who pushed for casual dress was a entitled snowflake?
without pushback, nothing ever changes. If nothing ever changes then society can’t move forward. If you can do your job remotely, then it doesn’t matter where you are.. just get the work done!
That’s the point here. The average “entitled snowflake” has far less leverage than they’ve been brought up to believe in our “everyone is special” and “everyone gets a trophy” culture.
If you can work from home, then in probably 90% of the cases, someone else can do your job from their home — in Bangalore or Budapest or wherever — for a fraction of what Americans are paid for the same work.
The “snowflakes” need to be very careful what they wish for and demand.
Nobody is indispensable and desks will always be filled with quality people willing to be given the chance. Apple aren’t going to have an issue tempting personnel to Cupertino to fill those desks left void by those preferring to work from their sofa or garden. I can’t see Apple struggling and being held to random by a young generation of people who don’t want to come to work somehow.
That’s another good point you’ve raised. If people convince their employers that they don’t have to come into the office anymore, maybe the company will think further afield and employ overseas and save money on wages? Why should I employ that software developer in San Francisco at £60k a year when I can employ 4 people from Poland or India for that? After all, they don’t need to be local and travelling into the office anymore.
IBM's "Watson office" in NYC (Astor Place) is exempt from the general workplace dress code IBM has elsewhere (slacks/shirt, etc) because they were having trouble recruiting younger talented engineers in "Silicon Alley" who were perfectly willing to look elsewhere, where they didn't have to dress up. Think about that for a sec, then think about how much bigger a deal it is to have to come into the office vs being comfy at home.
Is a company forfeiting it’s professionalism to accommodate a department who don’t like dressing smart a positive message though? That doesn’t really challenge my way of thinking at all to be honest and if anything would make me tighten down on contracts even more going forward.
I'm legit laughing that you think $85,000 is a going wage for a software engineer in *San Francisco*. I'm also absolutely certain because of that that either you don't work in this field or you are on something like low end IT and all of your posts on this thread are from a place of complete ignorance
I dress in gym shorts or jeans and support an enterprise platform just fine. Who the hell needs a dress shirt and slacks to project professionalism? Also, apparently you haven't set foot in, well, any tech company's office outside maybe IBM in a long time, dress codes are mostly gone beyond "don't wear offensive stuff on your t-shirt"