HobeSoundDarryl
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EVERY product ends up in the refurb store. Apparently, nothing bodes well by Apple if that's the metric.
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Apple Starts Selling Refurbished 2023 M2 Ultra Mac Pro at a Discount
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EVERY product ends up in the refurb store. Apparently, nothing bodes well by Apple if that's the metric.
You suggest "What probably seeing here is a substantially high number of folks buy, test-run , and then return a Mac Pro (for almost full refund ) ." but there is no reason for us to assume that.
The fact that nobody is letting theirs go, and what few do pop up for sale are priced incredibly high and sell incredibly fast, proves you wrong.
It's Apple's own fault for not marketing it hardly at all.
Just like GM didn't market the SS and BMW isn't marketing the Z4 M40i. Fabulous products that the manufacturer doesn't actually want to sell so they can say LOOK THE MARKET DOESN'T WANT IT SO WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE IT.
Considering how few they would expect to actually sell, you might be overestimating the profit margin. Not to say it’s a low profit margin, just saying that companies factor into a selling price the fact that they might not sell many of an item.
It's a very solid assumption to make. Since refurb device availability is based on return volume, and the M2 Mac Pro has shown up in the refurb store faster than just about anything else, two and two...
I’m upgrading from a 13 mini to a 15 Pro. I looked at prices on eBay, they‘re barely more than Apple’s trade-in value (and sometimes less). What are you seeing that is different? (Please let me know, I’d love to get more money for my almost pristine 13 mini).
I love the size in my hand, but I’d like the additional camera, more RAM so apps don’t refresh as often, a slightly larger screen, ProMotion, and the Dynamic Island.
It is not where near as 'hamstrung' as some of the moaner and groaners would make it out to be. If have a x16 PCIe-v4 non-GPU card it is clearly superior than the MP 2013 ( which is capped at x16 PCI-e v3. half the bandwidth. ).
If the primary purpose of buying a Mac Pro is to run Windows ...... I don't see why ever believed Apple ever cared a lot about that. The objectives are vastly different. Eventually the disconnection was going to come. If the 'love affair' is specifically for x86 Windows ... that is an even deeper chasm.
The MP 2006-2008 appears to have attracted a decent number of folks who still had strong interia to stick with x86 and Windows a significant amount of time operating the machine. Similar thing when the 2009-2012 models got much cheaper on the used market and folks piled into those at the non-Apple price points.
Someone who needs a system they don't already own the MP 2019 is a bit sketchy. There is better bang/buck in the newer Windows workstation market. The next 2-3 years PCI-e v4 and perhaps PCI-e v5 will go more mainstream in the workstation market and the MP 2019 will be about two generations behind on bandwidth.
RAM issue is more acute if Apple measured the capacity demographics by the folks who bought RAM from them or they sampled and measured RAM in the field about a 1 year after folks bought their MP 2019. Decoupling from x86 wasn't 'free' and there was loads more support from the Windows Server ( and less so Workstation) market for the RAM capacity differences that the MP 2019 had from the rest of the consumer Intel SoC line up the rest of Mac Product line used. Apple likely already knows they are walking away for a subset of users. Whether it is small or somewhat small is the only question. ( and again if insatiable RAM capacity is of primary interest ... there is more cost effective stuff to even larger capacities now on newer x86 systems. )
My local Craigslist and FB Marketplace are the hot markets for the 13 Minis. People are price gouging the crap out of them and getting away with it.
Conversely, I'll check on eBay if I can get a 13 Mini at a better price there, provided they're legit.
Some refurb is also "off lease" volume too , but it largely is way too early for that. But to everlasting float of mutiple pages of MP 2019 refurbs the last several years was likely more fuel by stuff dropping off lease at least as much as returns. It has died down substantially now because MP 2019 is obviously on Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock. ( going to get more folks who want to keep off lease. Or at least buy-and-flip the device into the open market used if there is a gap between 'lease buy out' and open market prices. )
The modularity of the graphics and memory probably isn't going to change.
The A17 already demonstrates that GPU performance won't sit still. More hardware RT hardware will do better job than the A17 does.
Memory. It isn't going to be "has to be more than max configuration MP 2019". Pretty good chance still cap out at "Ultra" package size. So number of RAM packages are going to be limited.
Expansion. Likely still going to have six slots. Probably better backhaul on those six, but not more slots.
It should be incremental, evolutionary better. But a homage to ultimate modularity? ... probably not.
And the price point. Not going down. Lots of folks who sneer at the Mac Pro are really grumble about price but dress it up as some feature point.
It doesn't. When hand the money back on a XX day return policy the money is a 'wash' . If has a 30 day return window and a 90 day quarter ... it is all washed out by time hit the 90 day window. ( there is overlapping float on both 'sides' when get to quarter boundary. As long as the general flow of the washout is relatively constant , it doesn't make much of a material difference in the quarterly reporting. )
If there is a 5% return rate they are likey still making money overall, but it will show up as substantive items for sale for a while on the refurbish site. After a while there will be "exchange for repair" pipelines to push returned Macs into also. [ highly anything is breaking down as a high rate right now a couple months after launch. ]
The "I don't know , but will kick the tires at home" rate to also likely trend down as there is more accepted , collected knowledge out in the marketplace as to what these systems are , and are not, a good match for. And the 'hate' campaign will likelihood dribble down for a smaller subset of diehards. More folks that want something else will just buy it instead of wagging their finger on forums.
Refurbs are not necessarily indicative of a major problem. If saw chronic heavy discounting at B&H or some of the retailers that have historically sold a decently high number of MP systems through, then that would be a problem.
When Apple cranked the entry price of the MP up 100% ( MP 2013's ~$3K to MP 2019's ~$6K ) they really were not looking for high volume. There is plenty of 'low volume tax' on these systems to pay for some sales hiccups and trans-shipment showrooming.
For large swaths of 2021 , 2022 there was 2-3 pages of MP 2019 on the refurb list. This is just one page ( and more Xeon units on it than M2 ones. 12 vs 4 )
I am dumping my 13 mini and upgrading to a 15 Pro Max. Just have to wait until Friday, but it's getting harder as the day get closer.
I can barely stand my iPhone mini. I loved 5.8" on my old XS, but 5.4" is just not good and wasn't as drop-in/close to 5.8" as I had hoped. The battery life is horrid, too. I have never been so excited to get rid of any other iPhone model that I have owned. I'm glad to see it go from the product line and I can't wait for my replacement.
I hope Apple brings back 5.8" for everyone who won't do a bigger phone.
Screw the iPhone mini. LET IT DIE!!! 😈
You are proposing there there is a large source of Mac Pros that broken down , repaired , but the owners abandoned them in less than 3 months.
Or that Apple singed a bunch of 1-2 month leases for Mac Pros?
Where else are the 'not new anymore' Mac Pro going to come from????????????
Apple really didn't hand many out as 'freebies' to Youtubers. Most reviews I've seen were either later or "I bought " ... not "Apple sent me a free Mac Pro for several weeks ... this is what I thought.." Because the Studio and MP came out at the same time most of the "loaners" that went out were the high volume selling Studios.
Beta testers or internal Apple people? those numbers aren't going to warrant a multiple entry refurb listings.
The ones that Apple never sold yet are still in the 'new' category....
so where is this possible other source?
Relatively few people (low millions) bought iPhone mini and for those that did it was a conscious decision and preference for the size so likely very few returns. And without a new mini to trade in for, just isn’t any Apple-Refurbished-Worthy inventory. No mini refurbs speaks to the popularity of the phone to the 3% or so of iPhone owners who bought one.
Apple's plush Polishing Cloth is cheaper than ever for the iPhone 15 launch
Keep your new phone free from fingerprints and discoloration.
www.macworld.com
Where do you think refurbs come from?
The ones that are sold and kept obviously don't end up as refurbs. And Apple has never been known to take new stock and sell them as refurbs for a discount.
There has to be a way to leverage "external" graphics cards to use as computing power. By external I mean a highspeed connector that the computer can use to leverage when it needs it. There's no way that you can simply plugin a graphics card into the motherboard like we used to do. There has to be a way.
It really isn't marketing it as much as marketing in general. Apple either does sometimes draconian or 'substantive' product fratricide elimination or tends to do nothing.
So the iPhone 13 Mini which will overlap in price with iPhone 12 while at the same time Apple generally sales pitches "should pay more for a bigger screen". The iPhone 14 Plus hiccuped also... again value proposition versus rest of the line up somewhat wanting in clarification. ( Apple is far more focused on selling more Pro models so Plus is left with 'table scraps ' of sales channel focus. )
The MBA 15" when didn't take away the MBP 13". Lots of folks wondering wondering what MPB 13" is for.
The Ultra in both the Studio and Mac Pro is just going to leave folks myopically fouced on CPU package confused. Or at least just looking at price points.
It is like there are two camps in marketing. The "super simple categories with fewer products" ( classic old Jobs one of each for consumer / pro split. ) camp and another camper that is looking to expand the base of folks they sell too because can see folks spilling inbetween the gaps between the overly sparse product mix the "super smiple" camp wants to do.
In more than a few areas Apple doesn't manage to 'walk and chew gum' at the same time. They go OCD into some bucket and their ability to multitask goes into the crapper. ( If want to go more traction for the Mac Studio the development effort into the iMac 24" has to go no where. )
There was even 'hate' on the iPhone 13 mini before it disappear. Unlocked on no carrier Apple wanted to charge $30 extra to do less work when selling the phone. [ Could be that they were trying to dry up supply at carriers. But ... how about a discount ? ]