Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize

[pastrychef]

Why do people assume that working conditions at Apple Stores are terrible?

According to the guy in the following article, it was "pretty great".


Source:https://www.businessinsider.com/what-its-really-like-to-work-at-an-apple-store-2015-7

 

[Orange Bat]

No CEO should be paid over a million $$$ in wages, no one. EVERYONE in the company should benifit from a companies success not just it's senior staff and if it takes being in a union to try and do that then so be it.

This kind of thinking always shows a misunderstanding of how people get paid. How much risk is that front line worker at the store managing? Not much. They’re responsible for that store and moving the product from it. And they aren’t even the only ones responsible as there are multiple other employees and managers, also.

What is the CEO responsible for? The CEO is responsible for that store, plus all the other stores, plus the online store, plus the supply chain, plus the decisions over what products get made and what do not, etc. They manage the entire company and the entire future of the company. They take on a great deal of risk both legally and financially as they have a responsibility to the stock holders.

If a frontline worker at an Apple store screws up, there might be the loss of a sale. If the CEO screws up, that could be the loss of billions of dollars. That means investors will want the absolute best person they can find for the CEO job, and they generally pay them very well to manage the amount of risk that they are asked to deal with.

Finally, it’s also about supply and demand. There are tons of low level retail jobs and lots of people willing and able to work them. There are few major CEO jobs and few people who can truly take on those responsibilities. Companies pay maximum for great CEOs who can bring in potentially billions of dollars a year. On the flip side that front line retail employee essentially handles a small part of an individual store and can be easily replaced with someone else.

 

[I7guy]

[...]

Returning jobs to the U.S. would be good, too.

​

Maybe you can suggest a good approach to Tim Cook. One that is painless, not too costly and will keep the price of the iphone the same as where it is today, along with the margins apple wants.

 

[siddavis]

Why would you expect to have insight into this process as a customer? Do you know what the employees at your local grocery store make or what their insurance costs them each month?

The fact of the matter is a group of employees have far more bargaining power than one. The union always gets more out of a company, which is precisely why companies don’t like unions.

Uh maybe because there are consequences for customers? I'm not suggesting that I should know what the negotiations are exactly, but there ARE costs involved. When costs are involved, they are passed along to the customer. I also think about - yes - the cost to the employee. Membership in the union is not free. Again, cost - benefit. Instead we just get 'employees unionize' and it's historical. Even your statement is really just a generality, and one that is just a simple 'big company = bad, little employee = good'. Do Apple employees really have it that bad? Honest question. Or, are we still waiting for the proletariat to rise up?

 

[I7guy]

If employers treated their employee's fairly then there would be no need for unions.

In 2022 that is not a true statement.

As this is an Apple related site, take the corporate level bosses at Apple, all of them making millions in wages and bonuses on the backs of their front line staff (retail and manufacturing) but yet are these employees financially rewarded for the hard work they put in, no they are not.

It's all about risk and reward -- didn't think that really needed an explanation.

They are told time and time again there is no money for wage increases or bonsues or extra perks for them but the company make damn sure that their corporate employees do get them and this is where a union can fight the employees cases by constantly bringing to attention the disparity.

Who is they and do you have some citations to back up your generalized statement?

Are corporate level staff worth the millions in wages they get?

Yes.

hell no

Management disagrees.

but who is there to try and change that?

You want people with specific hard to come by skills, the company will pay for that.

no one but a union.

A front-line retail work does not require specific hard to come by skills and hence won't be paid at the same scale as a software engineer.

They can argue that more money should be given to front line employees who are the ones who are actually making the company it's money.

Yes, Apple did increase the pay to $22.

No CEO should be paid over a million $$$ in wages, no one.

Says your opinion. Boards disagree, due to the risk/reward.

EVERYONE in the company should benifit from a companies success not just it's senior staff and if it takes being in a union to try and do that then so be it.

Eveyone does benefit. But when one is the top dog and the company valuation goes from two trillion to three trillion the top dog gets compensated.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Lol

Won’t Apple just shut the store down? 😂🙋‍♂️

Hopefully.

 

[siddavis]

From the article:

“after efforts by Apple to calm down unionization efforts.”​

​

!! Talk about Orwellian prose! !!

How about ”block”, “disrupt”, “undermine”, etc.?

”Calm down” is a markedly pro-Apple construction.

It makes it sound as if the employees and organizers were an excitable lot, as if the union efforts were merely a rambunctious outbreak that has no genuine concerns. It's as if Apple were a kind teacher gently telling her noisy charges to “settle down” and “get back in your seats” — or were an advert for an anti-itch medication — “it calms down the prickliness”.

Contrast MR's milquetoast phrasing with other tech and major news reporting!

Apple Insider

“stamp out burgeoning retail worker unionization efforts” “dissuade organizing employees” “Apple has instructed store leaders to warn employees that they could lose career growth opportunities, personal time off, and merit-based promotions.”​

​

“Apple is pushing the narrative that a union prevents teamwork.”​

Apple circulating anti-union talking points to retail store managers | AppleInsider

Leaked documents display Apple's anti-union talking points to store leaders that it hopes will stamp out burgeoning retail worker unionization efforts.

appleinsider.com

9 to 5 Mac

”Apple taps same legal team as Starbucks for unionization fight ahead”​

“working with anti-union lawyers”. “the company has been spreading anti-union messaging during meetings. “There’s a lot of misinformation that’s been spread trying to scare the masses,” the employee said.”​

​

Apple taps same legal team as Starbucks for unionization fight ahead

While Apple has yet to make a public statement about the unionization plans, it’s already hired anti-union lawyers to stop these efforts.

9to5mac.com

The Verge

“oppose workers organizing for better pay and working conditions.”​

​

“By retaining the notorious union busting firm Littler Mendelson, Apple’s management is showing that they intend to try to prevent their employees from exercising their right to join a union by running the same playbook as other large corporations,” said CWA Secretary-Treasurer Sara Steffens”​

​

Apple hires anti-union lawyers in escalating union fight

The firm, Littler Mendelson, also represents Starbucks efforts to squash employee organizing.

www.theverge.com

​

New York Times

“[Apple] released a video of Deirdre O’Brien, who leads Apple retail, cautioning employees that joining a union could hurt the company’s business.”​

​

“management telling workers that unions once prohibited Black employees from joining their ranks. …Ms. O’Brien visited the store and thanked everyone for their hard work.”​

​

“Soon after… They also started to pull employees into one-on-one meetings where managers highlighted the cost of union dues.”​

​

Apple Workers at Maryland Store Vote to Unionize, a First in the U.S.

Roughly two-thirds of employees at the store in Towson, Md., voted to join the union.

www.nytimes.com

​

The correct phrase is “union-busting”!

What's remarkable is that, in the face of all that undue, unwarranted, and possibly illegal pressure, the employees voted by a nearly TWO TO ONE margin to unionize! (65 to 33) The result was a pro-union landslide.

Apple also deliberately disrespects its own policies and professed commitments.

​

The Guardian

“Workers organizing criticized Apple’s response to union organizing drives as contradictory to the company’s supplier code of conduct and Apple’s human rights policy.”​

​

”Apple’s own internal policy on human rights also cites the company adheres to respecting internationally recognized human rights “as set out in the United Nations International Bill of Human Rights and the International Labour Organization’s Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work”.​

​

“members have an obligation to realize, promote and respect freedom of association and the effective recognition of the right to collective bargaining.”​

​

‘People are stressed’: Apple workers set to begin first in-person union election

If successful, the store in Towson, Maryland, would be the first to unionize at the US tech company

www.theguardian.com

With all its money and power, and huge profit margins, Apple could easily support unionization, create worker-manager policy councils, provide union employee representation on its board, improve working conditions, and spread economic democracy and human rights.

Returning jobs to the U.S. would be good, too.

​

I was basically saying the same thing about the reporting... that there is no info, but I am not surprised that Apple would push against this. This post makes it sound surprising. And is it false that they could lose merit based promotions? Basically a time based promotion setup in the union. Is it wrong to point out that there are union dues etc?

Finally, I think it is funny that this post ends with a demand to return jobs to the US. The same place where they'll get to deal with unions now. Great incentive...

 

[laptech]

Apple Announces Pay Rise for Employees

Employee backlash and unionization inspire Apple to put their money where their mouth is.

tech.co

Don't make stuff up.

View attachment 2021482

and when was the article written? come on, when was it written?? yep, 3 and a half weeks ago!!!!!!. Oh and with all the billions Apple is making every year why haven't they given their front line employees good wages and bonuses over the past 5-6 years. Apple are not giving the pay rise out of the goodness of their heart, you know, treating their employees with respect, no, they try their best to keep the wages low whilst Tim Cook and the others reap the rewards. Apple should give their employees a decent pay rise because they WANT TOO, not because they are FORCED TOO and yes, employee backlash and unionization has forced Apple to do the right thing.

Therefore as the article you used as evidence was written 3 weeks ago, front line employees have been for years asking for decent pay rises, bonuses and perks, therefore my point still stands.

 

[laptech]

But that is generally against the law. An employer is threading a small needle when they take retaliatory moves against workers that have voted to unionize.

Starting a union isn't likely about 'just money'. I've worked in a few malls and it's a different world. One store, the 'back area' was a total disaster. Very 'rustic' with pipes and ducting all over the place, and unstable shelves and no place, no chairs, to take a break from being on your feet for the shifts. Another one, it was all plywood, and the backs of the displays and power cables running all over the place, and filthy restroom and a roughed in 'break area'. Other employers have made great strides to treat their employees with respect, actual dry walled rooms with doors and sinks and a counter, with chairs and actual tables. For people to spend the larger part of their lives in that occupation, making it comfortable goes a long way.

I was in a back store area at an Apple Store, and it was 'typical mall rustic'. Lots of plywood, barely finished drywall, the 'shop' area was rustic by most standards. The stockroom was filled with rough cheap shelves. Typical 'mall environment', with the apparently required narrow hallways, etc. Apple *could* do better. Mall stores could do better too. Taking care of your employees doesn't cut profitability, it increases workers feeling like they want to be there, and it shows in their interactions with customers, I feel...

TV shows have a lot to answer for for the impression people get of what shops/stores and other businesses work areas look like, especially canteen areas. We are constantly shown very clean and tidy canteen/work area, plenty of tables and chairs for employees to sit to have their lunch, a sink with running water, a fridge/freezer, lockers, cupboards for kitchenware, clean toilets and when we are constantly shown such images we beging to get the impression that this is what work areas might be like in realitity. It could not be more further than the truth. A huge majority of work places is as you mentioned. Employees are treated like crap and it is no wonder people want to start a union because there is a huge majority of employers out their who do not respect their employees and who do not give a damn about them. As far as they are concerned the employee is getting a wage and that should be enough.

With the way things have been going since the pandemic and now with cost of living issues and fuel price issues, I have no doubt Apple store employees have started to get fed up with hearing how many millions of $$$ Tim Cook wages is and how much bonus he gets and pension perks whilst they are struggling to live. Apple employees should not have to unionize for Apple to do the right thing. The fact they haven't (the post where it states Apple is going to give employees a 45% pay rise means jack **** until they actually do it) say's a lot.

 

[lindros2]

Back in the day (1994-1996), I worked at CompUSA. I had to Google whether we had a union - I don't recall. I remember clocking in, working as a repair tech (focused on Mac desktops and PC notebooks), and then getting a shot to be a trainer. It was pretty good. Paid well, treated fairly.

Compared with working in grocery, where I was in a union, and the working conditions were complete garbage.

So I'm not sure what unions will do for Apple workers.

(yes, CompUSA imploded, not the least of which was being owned by Carlos Slim)

 

[NufSaid]

Back in the day (1994-1996), I worked at CompUSA. I had to Google whether we had a union - I don't recall. I remember clocking in, working as a repair tech (focused on Mac desktops and PC notebooks), and then getting a shot to be a trainer. It was pretty good. Paid well, treated fairly.

Compared with working in grocery, where I was in a union, and the working conditions were complete garbage.

So I'm not sure what unions will do for Apple workers.

(yes, CompUSA imploded, not the least of which was being owned by Carlos Slim)

It will be the same. The union bosses will do well. My mom got a raise when she retired from teaching because she didn't have to drive to work but most importantly didn't have to pay union dues.

 

[pastrychef]

and when was the article written? come on, when was it written?? yep, 3 and a half weeks ago!!!!!!. Oh and with all the billions Apple is making every year why haven't they given their front line employees good wages and bonuses over the past 5-6 years. Apple are not giving the pay rise out of the goodness of their heart, you know, treating their employees with respect, no, they try their best to keep the wages low whilst Tim Cook and the others reap the rewards. Apple should give their employees a decent pay rise because they WANT TOO, not because they are FORCED TOO and yes, employee backlash and unionization has forced Apple to do the right thing.

Therefore as the article you used as evidence was written 3 weeks ago, front line employees have been for years asking for decent pay rises, bonuses and perks, therefore my point still stands.

45% increase since 2018? That sounds like 4 years to me.

Why does it matter how much money the company is making? If/when companies loses money, will they volunteer to take pay cuts?

 

[Razorpit]

Grocery stores in my state are union. I used to work in them during college and a few years after. While there was high turnover, there were people who made it a career. I was part of a meat cutters union , even though I worked in deli and seafood. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but as a part time worker I was actually eligible for no cost health insurance. It was a pretty decent plan too. They still have the same no employee cost plan today.

In another store I watched the union get a co-workers job back. They fired him after he couldn't show up for work because his kid was in the hospital! Insane stuff. That store was a nightmare.

Sorry, but that story makes no sense. Why would anyone want to go back to a place that fired them because their kid was in the hospital?

 

[pastrychef]

Sorry, but that story makes no sense. Why would anyone want to go back to a place that fired them because their kid was in the hospital?

If the guy had put in a lot of years, it may be very important to his pension.

 

[Analog Kid]

Sorry, but that story makes no sense. Why would anyone want to go back to a place that fired them because their kid was in the hospital?

If the guy had put in a lot of years, it may be very important to his pension.

And if the kids in the hospital, the afore mentioned health care benefits will be important.

I agree though, it sounds like a long term adversarial relationship…

 

[sparkinstx]

Lol

Won’t Apple just shut the store down? 😂🙋‍♂️

It could happen. A few years ago, Apple closed stores in Collin County, Texas, like the one at the Shops at Willow Bend in Plano. This because they were under the jurisdiction of the Eastern District of Texas Federal courts (based in Sherman, and with courts and offices in Plano). The Eastern District was the site of many lawsuits against Apple, and juries were considered too plaintiff-friendly by Apple.

Closing the stores in Collin County meant that plaintiffs could no longer file suit in the Eastern District courts, since Apple no longer had physical locations (a presence) within the Eastern District.

 

[Maximara]

My take on it is, if it's a good workplace, there probably won't be that much push to organize for a union unless management actively wants collective bargaining (occasionally happens with European employers), and if it isn't a good workplace, people will try to organize. You look at the steel industry in America and Nucor has long stood out for being non-union but it has also stood out for the executives not paying themselves excessively and not having fancy offices and at the same time leading the company to generally very successful results.

I don't know where you are getting your information from but Steel's effort to unionize were as violent and bloody as any other effort in the US. As a side note you do know that at one time corporations in the US were so powerful they could effectively order state national guards get involved which in the case of Ludlow, CO resulted in the killing of women and children on April 20, 1914, right?

Side note: "You look at the steel industry in America and Nucor has long stood out for being non-union" is not the same as 'If you look at the steel industry in America, Nucor has long stood out for being non-union'. The first form says ala Schoolhouse rock's "Conjunction Junction" that they are combining 'America and Nucor' in the statement.

Yes, I know of the contrast use of "and" (ex: life and death) but outside of a few common sayings it is rarely used.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

as if the union efforts were merely a rambunctious outbreak that has no genuine concerns.

Well, to be fair, we DON’T know what was so heinous about that store. Were they being paid less than $22? Was there a hidden lithium mine under the store? Were the breaks 15 minutes and they wanted 20? If they want to be paid, say $70,000 a year for entry level retail work, I guess that’s a concern and if they can get it, then good for ‘em!

 

[Cognizant.]

Based on the garbage company in charge of this “union” … I’d kind of like to see Apple shut down this store. Why can’t people find better representation? They’re going to be worse off than had they not done this.

 

[Tubamajuba]

As a side not you do know that at one time corporations in the US were so powerful they could effectively order state national guards get involved which in the case of Ludlow, CO resulted in the killing of women and children on April 20, 1914.

Some people in this thread would be ecstatic to live in a place where this is common.

 

[laptech]

This kind of thinking always shows a misunderstanding of how people get paid. How much risk is that front line worker at the store managing? Not much. They’re responsible for that store and moving the product from it. And they aren’t even the only ones responsible as there are multiple other employees and managers, also.

What is the CEO responsible for? The CEO is responsible for that store, plus all the other stores, plus the online store, plus the supply chain, plus the decisions over what products get made and what do not, etc. They manage the entire company and the entire future of the company. They take on a great deal of risk both legally and financially as they have a responsibility to the stock holders.

If a frontline worker at an Apple store screws up, there might be the loss of a sale. If the CEO screws up, that could be the loss of billions of dollars. That means investors will want the absolute best person they can find for the CEO job, and they generally pay them very well to manage the amount of risk that they are asked to deal with.

Finally, it’s also about supply and demand. There are tons of low level retail jobs and lots of people willing and able to work them. There are few major CEO jobs and few people who can truly take on those responsibilities. Companies pay maximum for great CEOs who can bring in potentially billions of dollars a year. On the flip side that front line retail employee essentially handles a small part of an individual store and can be easily replaced with someone else.

When you have presidents and prime minsters running countries on wages less than $500,000 a year, people who have way more responsibility and duty than a CEO ever will, as far as i'm concerned no CEO should be paid over a million $$$ in wages. Hell, the most powerful position in the world (depending on your outlook of things), the president of the United States only gets a salary of $400,000 and people think the likes of Tim Cook is worthy of multimillions because of the decisions he has to make!!!!, no, hell no. Apple and many other multi nationals can funnel the majority of their profits back into the company and to it's employees but they don't. The large portion of it goes to shareholders and corporate executives and what little remains goes to the front line workers.

 

[pastrychef]

Some people in this thread would be ecstatic to live in a place where this is common.

There are also those who would be ecstatic if America became socialists.

 

[laptech]

Some people in this thread would be ecstatic to live in a place where this is common.

What, state functioned killing of women and children?

 

[pastrychef]

When you have presidents and prime minsters running countries on wages less than $500,000 a year, people who have way more responsibility and duty than a CEO ever will, as far as i'm concerned no CEO should be paid over a million $$$ in wages. Hell, the most powerful position in the world (depending on your outlook of things), the president of the United States only gets a salary of $400,000 and people think the likes of Tim Cook is worthy of multimillions because of the decisions he has to make!!!!, no, hell no. Apple and many other multi nationals can funnel the majority of their profits back into the company and to it's employees but they don't. The large portion of it goes to shareholders and corporate executives and what little remains goes to the front line workers.

US presidents make their fortune after leaving office.

Online Master’s Degrees | Kogod School of Business

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onlinebusiness.american.edu

 

[Maximara]

This kind of thinking always shows a misunderstanding of how people get paid. How much risk is that front line worker at the store managing? Not much. They’re responsible for that store and moving the product from it. And they aren’t even the only ones responsible as there are multiple other employees and managers, also.

What is the CEO responsible for? The CEO is responsible for that store, plus all the other stores, plus the online store, plus the supply chain, plus the decisions over what products get made and what do not, etc. They manage the entire company and the entire future of the company. They take on a great deal of risk both legally and financially as they have a responsibility to the stock holders.

The flaw with that argument is Toyota and Nintendo. The CEO at Toyota makes $1.9 million (US) while Ford's CEO makes $22 million and yet most of the cars Americans drive are from overseas...where the CEO salary is a lot lower. Satoru Iwata (Nintendo's CEO in 2014) took a 50% pay cut to his $770,000 (US) salary to get his company through a hard time to make sure his employees stated employed but in 2018 Blizzard/Activision cut 800 jobs even though it made $2 Billion and the CEO pulled down $30.84 million.

Heck even "Investors Are Finally Pushing Back on Massive CEO Pay Hikes" evidently finally figuring out the obvious 'things fall down' that if the CEO is getting that kind of a pay raise than they are getting less than they could from their stock holdings ie money going to the CEO isn't going into their pockets.