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What, state functioned killing of women and children?
Ludlow, CO 1914 isn't that long ago but people like to forget the dark parts of American past. How about the local government effectively poisoning you because it wants to be cheap? Flint, Michigan of April 2014–June 2016 welcomes you with open arms; just don't drink the water, bathe with it, or swim in it. /s
 
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I don't know where you are getting your information from but Steel's effort to unionize were as violent and bloody as any other effort in the US. As a side not you do know that at one time corporations in the US were so powerful they could effectively order state national guards get involved which in the case of Ludlow, CO resulted in the killing of women and children on April 20, 1914.
He was talking about a specific steelmaker (Nucor), not the US steelmaking industry in general. Read for context.
 
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There are good and bad unions just like there are good and bad union bosses. This is no different than chain restaurants, some have good cooks and some are terrible even in the same chain or location. All of the pontificating about good and bad means nothing. The only facts here are that the employees thought they were getting a raw deal and searched for something better. If I ran Apple retail I would fire the store manager(s). They were obviously not doing their jobs.
 
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He was talking about a specific steelmaker (Nucor), not the US steelmaking industry in general. Read for context.
The wording is off for that reading. "You look at the steel industry in America and Nucor has long stood out for being non-union" is not as clear cut as 'If you look at the steel industry in America, Nucor has long stood out for being non-union' (which is how you are saying it should be read). The first form says ala Schoolhouse rock's "Conjunction Junction" that they are combining 'America and Nucor' in the statement.

Yes, I know of the contrast use of "and" (ex: life and death) but outside of a few common sayings it is rarely used.
 
There are also those who would be ecstatic if America became socialists.
Given a choice between a world where corporations could basically have people killed on demand and socialism, any person with the slightest amount of morals would choose socialism.

Thankfully we have far more choices than just those two. However, more and more people are getting pushed towards socialist ideas because of the way corporations and the billionaires that own them get away with doing pretty much whatever they want, while the rest of us work our asses off just to get table scraps and devastating medical bills that wipe out those table scraps.
 
Given a choice between a world where corporations could basically have people killed on demand and socialism, any person with the slightest amount of morals would choose socialism.

Thankfully we have far more choices than just those two. However, more and more people are getting pushed towards socialist ideas because of the way corporations and the billionaires that own them get away with doing pretty much whatever they want, while the rest of us work our asses off just to get table scraps and devastating medical bills that wipe out those table scraps.
The problem is too many people confuse "true" socialism and with the abominations Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Mao called "socialism". 'That funny buzzing sound? Don't worry, Comrade; that is just Marx doing about 10,000 RPMs in his grave.' /s :(

Though as bad as things look they are nowhere what it was in the 19th century.
 
Given a choice between a world where corporations could basically have people killed on demand and socialism, any person with the slightest amount of morals would choose socialism.

Thankfully we have far more choices than just those two. However, more and more people are getting pushed towards socialist ideas because of the way corporations and the billionaires that own them get away with doing pretty much whatever they want, while the rest of us work our asses off just to get table scraps and devastating medical bills that wipe out those table scraps.

Socialists don't kill?

Since Apple is the largest company in America, how many murders have they been convicted of?
 
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Don't care if he's the General, $400/k a year?!?!

You failed to address this part:

Seven lifeguards in Los Angeles made more than $300,000 a year including benefits, and 82 made more than $200,000, government watchdog group OpenTheBooks found.

The top-paid lifeguard made $392,000 in compensation in 2020, and 31 lifeguards made between $50,000 and $131,000 in just overtime.


Lifeguards can retire at age 55 and get 79% of their pay for life.

Again, no wonder California is the complete mess that it is.
I’m not sure what your actual problem with this is? If they worked the hours they deserve the pay, if they didnt it’s fraud and should be treated accordingly, but it doesnt sound like it’s that, it sounds like they worked a ton of OT, so would you prefer they be forced to work for free?

And it’s not actually that easy a job on a large city’s public beach or pools, especially when most of your job is managing the people, budget, facilities, and the beach (as is true of most of the folks making that much).

If you’re gonna be annoyed at anyone by annoyed at the municipality for low enough staffing funding that’s such OT was necessary (OT is still cheaper than new hires, which cost a lot more overhead, that’s why you end up with things like this)

As for retirement, you know at one time pensions were common everywhere, not just the public sector, right? I don’t see the problem with a pension after 55 for decades of public service… is your problem just that you wish you had as good a deal as they do? If that’s so, well, join a union
 
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There are also those who would be ecstatic if America became socialists.
Well aye. If America catches up and finally gets on board with socialism I would be delighted that my friends there have medical care, access to college, a security net when they lose their job, and the very basics like 21 paid days holiday plus unlimited sick days like the developed world. Amazingly people don’t want you to suffer and die on the street while the ambulance was to busy running your credit card to treat you.
 
Apple paid the retail employees while the stories were closed by finding them other non-retail remote work to do. Not something they HAD to do, but just something they did. During the next closures, will the union pay their salaries? I guess it depends on their contract.
Actually it IS something they had to do. During the pandemic, all of Apple's business moved on-line, and there simply wasn't enough staff to cover the demand. That's why they moved the staff to work from home to support existing on-line teams - it's what kept the business alive, and what helped drive Apple to record profits during that time.
 
Well aye. If America catches up and finally gets on board with socialism I would be delighted that my friends there have medical care, access to college, a security net when they lose their job, and the very basics like 21 paid days holiday plus unlimited sick days like the developed world. Amazingly people don’t want you to suffer and die on the street while the ambulance was to busy running your credit card to treat you.

I'm confident in my abilities and I'm not willing to have what I work hard for to be taken and redistributed to those who didn't.
 
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I’m not sure what your actual problem with this is?

If you cannot see how this level of compensation is absolutely ludicrous then you are not debating in good faith. Any able bodied person in fair shape can be a lifeguard with minimal training, been there done that, had my cert as a teen. This is not a highly specialized field.

Funny how people here have a huge problem with CEO pay but don't want to acknowledge that $400,000/yr is highly inappropriate for a lifeguard.
 
If you cannot see how this level of compensation is absolutely ludicrous then you are not debating in good faith. Any able bodied person in fair shape can be a lifeguard with minimal training, been there done that, had my cert as a teen. This is not a highly specialized field.

Funny how people here have a huge problem with CEO pay but don't want to acknowledge that $400,000/yr is highly inappropriate for a lifeguard.
I have been a lifeguard and a swim instructor as well, I was for most of my twenties, so:

1)I’m going to posit it’s been longer for you than me since you were a lifeguard. I’d also bet you weren’t a municipal one for a large city. The level of training given in this end of things today is much higher than it used to be for folks in those roles (you also don’t know if these roles for the non-mgmt end of things included things like swim instruction).

2)Lifeguard’s literally keep the beach safe, paying a decent wage for people who will build experience on how the tides shift on their end of things, how the population around them swims, what hazards to look out for specific to their beach or facility is worth it. For that matter paying a decent wage for any work is worth it, and OT is time and a half usually so it adds up.

3)I would bet that the cost of living where these guys are is much higher than where you are, so wages that may seem high to you are not necessarily all that high, and again, OT can build a lot if base pay is decent.

4) most importantly to the specifics here you seem to keep deliberately ignoring the fact that almost all the people earning anywhere near that much are management, and mostly not low level either, not the base string lifeguards, that is not a set of jobs that can be done by “any able bodied person in fair shape with minimal training” and pay is higher than a base lifeguard so OT will add up to more even more quickly

to keep this on topic: unions make sure people get decent benefits, as these lifeguards get, if you’re salty that you don’t those benefits the answer is to union up like the Apple store did, not to complain that because things suck for you they should suck for everyone, forever
 
Why do people assume that working conditions at Apple Stores are terrible?

According to the guy in the following article, it was "pretty great".

View attachment 2021503
Source:https://www.businessinsider.com/what-its-really-like-to-work-at-an-apple-store-2015-7
That article was published in 2015 and refers to an employee who worked at Apple from October 2010 through May 2012. Apple's retail operations underwent a major leadership change during their time at Apple (Ron Johnson to John Browett), and it's undergone two more such changes since then (to Angela Ahrendts in 2014 and then Deirdre O'Brien in 2019).

I'm sure some Apple retail employees were and are very happy with their experience, but some also (clearly) feel that their working conditions could use improvement. It could be problems specific to their store or management, or it could be broader issues within Apple's retail operations, but clearly these employees feel that they have exhausted their options to work directly with Apple for improved conditions.
 
That article was published in 2015 and refers to an employee who worked at Apple from October 2010 through May 2012. Apple's retail operations underwent a major leadership change during their time at Apple (Ron Johnson to John Browett), and it's undergone two more such changes since then (to Angela Ahrendts in 2014 and then Deirdre O'Brien in 2019).

I'm sure some Apple retail employees were and are very happy with their experience, but some also (clearly) feel that their working conditions could use improvement. It could be problems specific to their store or management, or it could be broader issues within Apple's retail operations, but clearly these employees feel that they have exhausted their options to work directly with Apple for improved conditions.

I was unable to find anything more recent so that's all I had to go on. But not being able to find horror stories is also a bit telling...
 
Yep, one out of what, 50,000. That story could be any job.
Sure, it could be. I'm not sympathetic, however, to a company with essentially unlimited funds and resources when it declines to even pretend to care about reasonable employee concerns.

Hell, toward the end Calivas just wanted to transfer to another store so he wouldn't have to work under a specific manager, and Apple evidently wouldn't even accommodate that. It's absurd.
 
Cool. So now all the current lazy employees who piss & moan about not being able to make a living on minimum wage (something minimum wage was never intended for) can be even lazier, Apple can't fire them, customer service will head to toilet and prices for Apple goods/services will be even more artifically inflated thanks to these bozos.

Well done.
Minimum wage actually used to be a living wage when created. Wages were becoming a slave wage and needed to be regulated. Jobs given to certain members of society were paid much more even though their responsibilities did not warrant it. Over the last 30 years the gap was allow to increase substantially because the minimum stopped being increased to adjust for inflation and other economic changes. Even while corporate profits, management, and executive salaries soared from 200k to 10s of millions
 
Actually it IS something they had to do. During the pandemic, all of Apple's business moved on-line, and there simply wasn't enough staff to cover the demand. That's why they moved the staff to work from home to support existing on-line teams - it's what kept the business alive, and what helped drive Apple to record profits during that time.
No, they didn’t HAVE to do it, as there are plenty of call centers that are more than happy to take a script and get to work. While many retail businesses were cutting jobs, Apple and other retailers either kept folks busy or kept their paychecks coming, most without unions.
 
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