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Yup. The beginning of the end of what little quality service was left at Apple Stores.

Why? You seem to be implying that the only thing that keeps employees doing good work is the fear of being fired, and that once a union is defending their job security, that people will immediately slack off and do a bad job... i.e. "workers are fundamentally lazy, and need to be pressured to perform" - sounds like something you'd hear from a 19th century factory owner.

Maybe I'm too far removed from the mind of the "average blue collar worker" (if such a class of employee really exists), but I would expect that a lot of entry-level or low-paid workers are still quite motivated to do a good job for their own personal satisfaction and to increase the possibility of promotion.
 
I don't know a lot about unions, but I know Apple has left them out there like canon fodder in the middle of a pandemic while their corporate employees are only just starting to go back in person.

When you choose to work retail what do you expect. July like mine workers choose to work in mines. I don’t feel sorry or bad for either ones. I’m thankful for both. Just like my Own profession if I don’t like it I’m free to change it.
 
Maybe I'm too far removed from the mind of the "average blue collar worker" (if such a class of employee really exists), but I would expect that a lot of entry-level or low-paid workers are still quite motivated to do a good job for their own personal satisfaction and to increase the possibility of promotion.

In my experience, crappy employees are gonna be crappy employees and good ones will be good ones, regardless of the specifics of employment. While it's true that a union shop is more likely to protect the mediocre, on the flip side the good employees will feel empowered to make the 'correct' decisions even if that's contrary to the employer's bottom line, and that ends up being good for the consumer.
 
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Why is this News? In my country, belonging to a union is nearly expected. However, the employers also form a “union” to negotiate the salaries with the respective workers union. It works, we get food on the table, safe workplaces, reasonable job security, there are plenty of room for individual salary negotiations and yet I recently heard my country was the best in the world to do business in but it takes two responsible parties for that.
Out of curiosity, which country is that?
 
But here is the thing. Those Wall Street banks together accounted for a massive percentage of national GDP. If those companies had gone under, the country would have gone into an unprecedented credit shock and a massive depression would have followed, on same scale as 1920s.

The problem was lobbyists and bipartisan politicians in the 1990s who killed the Glass-Steagal Act. The problem IS free market ideology. If this had been questioned when we had the opportunity, the Wall Street monopolies would never have emerged in the first place.
I worked as a bank examiner for the FDIC in the early 90s. Banks by government regulations are very limited in what securities they can invest in. A bank’s main asset class is their loan portfolio. When the bank undergoes its regular examinations by the FDIC, Federal Reserve, Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (nationally chartered banks) and/or state regulators (state regulated banks) the examiners go in and review the largest dollar amount loans one by one. That is the main part of the asset review for the “safety and soundness“ exams. The next major asset category is the security portfolios. Security investments that a bank are allowed to invest in are very limited. They are allowed to invest in US Treasury securities, Ginnie Mae, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and bonds of municipalities. Florida state chartered banks were allowed to invest in the debts of the state of Israel. Pretty much every other type of security was illegal for the bank to invest in. So if the bank wanted to buy corporate securities of companies like Microsoft and Apple that was illegal. So during the exam the bank examiners have to grade the loans and securities as safe or not (Special Mention, Substandard, Doubtful or Loss). U.S. Treasury securities are backed with the guarantee of the full faith and credit of the United States so they were automatically graded as safe. The same went for Ginnie Mae securities, full faith and credit. On the other hand Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were not explicitly guaranteed by the full faith and credit of the United States. However it was implicitly assumed that the federal government would also back up any failed Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae securities so they got automatically graded as safe by the examiners so banks were motivated to invest in them. Well as it was shown in 2008 the assets making up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were actually junk. So basically government regulators were basically going into banks and motivating them to invest in junk assets.
 
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Minimum wage was literally created to be a living wage. This is what FDR said on the topic, he was pretty clear:

In my Inaugural, I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

Comments like yours are why unionization efforts like this new one are important, not just to pursue new rights but to protect the old ones.
MacRumors comment of the year!
 
Finally, Apple Retail employees will no longer be oppressed by the evil corporate overlords and can relax knowing they can only fail up. Bravo.
 
This is so true. We saw in 2008 just how kind our system is to the corporate fat cats. The mantra was "too big to fail." So they got bailouts, while thousands of ordinary people were kicked out of their homes.
In 2008, those corps should've just gone bankrupt instead of receiving bailouts, as the market had already decided their fate. Likewise, an employer shouldn't be legally obligated to hire unionized workers. This stuff breeds corruption.
 
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It's not so much that the companies are ripping off the lower level employees, so much as severely under-valuing their contributions and severely over-valuing the contributions of the top level executives.

In 2020 time cook was paid just under $100 million.That's 1666 times my pay. That's just insane on so many levels I don't know where to start.
Is is critial to the company? maybe. I mean there's a succession plan in place, I'm sure for when he retires. Someone else CAN be CEO of Apple. Does he deserve to make well over my salary? Every. Single. Day?
I think no. CEO pay is whack. I read about engineers at Apple getting bonuses that would pay for my house. It's an insult to the work I do for Apple that there's this much pay disparity.
There are some very savvy shareholders on the board who are financially interested in the CEO not being overpaid, like any other employee. Even small shareholders get votes too.
 
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I’d like to know the reason the no votes came to their decision.
Perhaps they want to be able to work any job role given, not be limited by someone senior getting that job role. I would assume since we are talking about an open shop, Apple retail employees do not have to join the union if they don't want to.
 
Better pay is always a big plus. No one can afford to really support themselves on their own with retail salaries. That’s not Apple fault. Just about any service sector nickel and dimes employees. Not sure what they mean about working conditions. The stores looks clean and inviting. I mean what’s behind closed doors a torture chamber? lol.
 
It's not so much that the companies are ripping off the lower level employees, so much as severely under-valuing their contributions and severely over-valuing the contributions of the top level executives.

In 2020 time cook was paid just under $100 million.That's 1666 times my pay. That's just insane on so many levels I don't know where to start.
Is is critial to the company? maybe. I mean there's a succession plan in place, I'm sure for when he retires. Someone else CAN be CEO of Apple. Does he deserve to make well over my salary? Every. Single. Day?
I think no. CEO pay is whack. I read about engineers at Apple getting bonuses that would pay for my house. It's an insult to the work I do for Apple that there's this much pay disparity.
On your engineer statement, Apple actually pays less (including bonuses) then other companies do for quality software engineers. They’re basically what makes everything tick these days. From every website and service you use, to your appliances and vehicles. Anything less than $100/hour for a quality senior software engineer is insulting. That’s why the FAANG companies pay what they do. Since Netflix doesn’t give stock (at least they didn’t) they’re straight salary. Which is why some of their devs make $400k/year.
 
Yeah, one dude I knew earned his 10 year plaque as a Genius, he really wasn't too thrilled about it.

Yeah I guess he was expecting a 100k reward for working at a retail company huh ? Make sense. Unionized so Apple can close the shop down.
 
Actually its fantastic move for all the staff and offers greater protections. Apple will not close down the store, as they would face multiple lawsuits and bad publicity. They are a Public company at the end of the day.

Yeah right. I see the Twinkie Theory starting to kicking for all Apple stores really soon. I don't think Apple will let a group of retail employees dictate their company.
 
I remember hearing about a hiring agency that was a contractor for Apple with the option after 6 months to be brought on under Apple itself. I made sure it was actually Apple that was hiring me specifically because of the stories.
That was definitely not an option at the two contractors I worked for that worked for Apple. There was no contact with Apple whatsoever (although I have a suspicion some of our training might have been from Apple employees—the materials definitely were—but I don't know for sure). At one of the two companies I worked with, you could go up the ranks within the company (which in reality was $1 more an hour for becoming a supervisor—sounded awful) but definitely not crossover to Apple.
 
Better pay is always a big plus. No one can afford to really support themselves on their own with retail salaries. That’s not Apple fault. Just about any service sector nickel and dimes employees. Not sure what they mean about working conditions. The stores looks clean and inviting. I mean what’s behind closed doors a torture chamber? lol.
Remember the lawsuit against Apple checking peoples bags for a half an hour after shift without pay
 
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Lots of people with Stockholm syndrome here.
Big corporations are not your friend nor care about you. Unions balance the power structure a bit between workers and corporations.
There are only few countries where the working conditions are as as bad in the USA. Almost no paid time off, almost no social security… have a look at Europe.

Wow... shocked to see you claim that few countries have working conditions as bad as the US. im going to go out on a limb and say that you havent actually traveled to many countries. Ive been to about 20 countries, and that is a crazy statement.

I'm not against unions per say, but im also not anti "big corporations." Retail in particular is a tough business these days. its hard to compete with online pricing. Anyone else remember shopping at Future Shop, Computer City, Circuit City, Sears, K-Mart, etc....? They just couldnt stay afloat. We have far fewer local shopping options than we used to. So employees hopefully should take care to realize that its not just about "getting the most they can." Getting more is useless if the company you work for goes out of business 6 months later.
 
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Out of curiosity, which country is that?
Denmark. The employer organisation complained (of course) though about the high salaries. Key here is that salary is one parameter of many to be competitive.

There is a saying “You get what you pay for”. Paying poor wages and having poor working conditions leads to poor performing workers.
 
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Well then I guess they'll have themselves a Union.
Considering the traditional American approach of service jobs residing at the bottom of the barrel, this might actually make working retail for Apple more attractive to better employees. I guess it won't stop certain people from flinging mud down at them anyway, but then that's a given.
 
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I challenge any of the pro-union folks to read that article and defend lifeguards making that much money, I'll wait.....
So I googled around, the guy who made that much wasnt just a random lifeguard, he's the captain, the second ranking guy in the structure, and mostly a manager. He's more like the COO of a small corp that staffs beaches, does that help you make more sense of that?
 


Apple Store employees in Maryland have made history by voting to officially unionize, becoming the first Apple retail location to do so in the U.S. after efforts by Apple to calm down unionization efforts.

applestoresantamonica.jpg

As reported by CNBC, employees at the Apple Store in Towson, Maryland voted 65 for and 33 against a call to join the Machinists Union. 110 employees were eligible to vote Wednesday through Saturday evening. The employees are hopeful the new move will encourage Apple to provide better pay and working condition, both of which the company has already pledged to do.

As noted by CNBC, the National Labor Relations Board still needs to verify the votes before Apple must begin negotiations with the union.

In a video shared in May, Apple's head of retail and people, Deirdre O'Brien, said that employees have a "right to join a union" but added that it's also employees right to "not join a union." "We have a relationship that is based on an open and collaborative and direct engagement, which I feel could fundamentally change if a store is represented by a union under a collective bargaining agreement," O'Brien added.



Article Link: Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize


For those that might be wondering and having been there before, THIS IS NOT THE ACTUAL APPLE STORE IN Towson, Maryland. The actual store is in a typical mega mall just outside of Baltimore City and pretty ordinary looking, not a free standing structure as pictured.

And a clerical error. They did NOT vote to unionize. They voted ON Unionization, not for it. They voted the union down, although Maryland is very much a pro union state in general. So I would gather from that that working conditions are likely not all that bad at the Towson Apple Store.

And for those wondering, no, this is not where Kevin Spacy or Oprah Winfrey allegedly live at times. That would the Ritz Carlton Estates in the Baltimore Inner Harbor. Baltimore itself does not have an Apple store that I'm aware of, although I'm surprised none has ever been built.
 

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I'm interested to know how you come to that conclusion.

How do you know that if you weren't in a union that your wages might not have been equal, or say 5k less which would actually be a break even for you.

As best I can tell most unions collect between 1-2%:


At 2% dues that would put you at >$250k/yr, at 1% dues >$500k/yr, at 4% >125k/yr, if true needing a union to negotiate for you is fairly sad.

If you really make that then I assume you have specific education/skills. I would think you could do much better on your own.

Unless you are these guys:


"Lifeguards can retire at age 55 and get 79% of their pay for life." - No wonder Cali is the mess that it is! You can retire and collect 79% of your pay for the next 40years or so?!?!?! All on the taxpayers dime and for being a "professional" lifeguard. WOW. No wonder California is bleeding population.

I challenge any of the pro-union folks to read that article and defend lifeguards making that much money, I'll wait.....
That’s easy to argue for them. They literally have negotiated a great salary, why are you complaining Ofer a great deal?

the union has collectively bargained for better wages, hours, benefits, and working conditions. By all measures, they’ve succeeded in gaming the system for their membership. If anything this shows the power of a union if it’s competently run.
 
I have never understood why you would want to talk people out of unionizing. People are till free to work without being a union member. And people wouldn’t unionize unless they had benefits from it
If you live in a state that is not right to work you are not still free to work without being a union member. People who voted to unionize are short sighted. They see an immediate benefit without recognizing the long-term consequences of it, fewer jobs and higher prices are only two of them.
 
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