Apple Store's Temperature Checks May Violate EU Privacy Rules, Says German Data Protection Office

[Solomani]

In this case, it's not a matter of "impeding Apple business or revenue", it's more of impeding Apple's ability to protect its employees and customers.

Apple has no money or revenue to gain by temperature screening its customers or employees. Its only "gain" here is a simple defensive measure to protect its customers and employees from further COVID spread.

Very large high-traffic retail businesses that DO NOT screen employees (or customers), like CostCo or Walmart, will eventually be accountable for spreading COVID.... and the proliferation and increase in contact tracking/tracing technology will show that anti-screening policies are culpable.

Just watch for it.... every company and several Governments are working on contact tracing of COVID. And once it takes off, contact tracing will demonstrate that businesses that DO NOT enforce masking policies, DO NOT enforce social distancing, and DO NOT screen for temps (or other COVID-related symptoms) will be the ones that are the biggest offenders for COVID proliferation.

 

[Pierre Metz]

As far as I known there is no obligation to visit an Apple store. If one does not agree/like the temperature measure just stay away, order on line or don't buy . Living in Asia my temperature is taken probably ten times a day, going to shops, banks, restaurants, Mass transit. I don't see the issue.

 

[topmounter]

Good news, apparently the EU considers rectal temperature checks to be a perfectly acceptable alternative.

 

[abhibeckert]

Sorry to poo poo this. If you are asymptomatic you won’t have a bloody temperature! So how the hell does this become ok.?!

It's worse than that. Forehead scanners are known to have both false positives and false negatives.

Visiting a doctor recently, they were checking everyone's temperature with a forehead scanner before they could enter the building. My partner tested over and we had to wait in the carpark for someone in a hazmat suit to repeat the test with an ear probe. No temperature by that reading and we were told it happens every day.

Is Apple going to do follow up by doing a proper temperature check? If not, then they're creating a huge amount of stress for people who think they might be sick when they're perfectly healthy. And also people who are infected might not bother to get tested because they think they don't have a fever when they do.

As far as I known there is no obligation to visit an Apple store.

Yes there is. If your employer tells you to buy something, and you refuse "because I don't want my temperature scanned" you're likely to be fired.

Also plenty of stuff they provide isn't available anywhere else. Warranty service for example.

 

[AdmiralTriggerH]

Well in Australia I’m pretty sure being fired for refusing to visit an Apple Store would be considered unfair dismissal and would open challenging at the fair work tribunal

 

[Expos of 1969]

So...are they using rectal thermometers for this? 😜

Every second person gets that while the others get it orally. So calculate very carefully where to stand in line

 

[Ubuntu]

What’s even the point in doing this?

A you may not even get a fever
B you may already have it but show no symptoms yet

literally haven’t seen any other store doing this in Germany

Yes, but at the same time if you do show symptoms it’s a fantastic way to ensure you don’t enter the store and infect people. Just because it’s not going to catch 100% of the infected people it doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing at all.

 

[H2SO4]

Apple Store is private space.
Should be able to ask temperature, like clubs ask ID?
Thermometers don't store data.

Whilst I haven't seen the entire arguemnt being presented and say that on the face of it, things seem silly. However, a place of employment is not private space when it comes to certain things, ie you can't do just what you want.

 

[konqerror]

The fact that laws are often interpreted differently is common worldwide though.

The fact is that the EU/EEA/EFTA was formed because in a globalized world economy, none of the European states would be able to compete against the US, China, and India, if they had 32 separate laws and regulations that companies would have to comply with. This realization predates the EU with the development of pan-European regulatory bodies like CEPT and JAA.

The US realized that this was an untenable situation with only 13 States, which led to the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution. Thus, privacy laws are interpreted by exactly one organization, the Federal Trade Commission.

The EU, sticking to their mandate of sovereignty, has not been as successful.

 

[justperry]

Okay, those people, doing that, should spend a some time in jail (or, I don't know, handcuffed to a table in their home) to think about their actions and how they affect others.

That's what they do here, some of them get a few months jail time.

 

[recoil80]

I don't know about Germany but in Italy your employer can check the temperature at the beginning of the day before you enter your factory/office and send you home if you have 37.5
Temperature is also checked before entering some supermarkets, and we're opening street markets as well but before you have access to the street your temperature is checked.
It is an inconvenience, but wearing a mask is way worse and, unlike temperature check, is mandatory to wear one to enter a store, take a train etc.

 

[gnasher729]

What’s even the point in doing this?

A you may not even get a fever
B you may already have it but show no symptoms yet

literally haven’t seen any other store doing this in Germany

What's the point in doing this? Many people do get a fever, and many people have symptoms. Kicking them out reduces everyone's risk. It reduces the risk, not to zero, but it reduces it. And nobody is forced to have their temperature measured, you can always stay outside.
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Solange man die Kunden nicht auch nach ihren Namen fragt, handelt es sich ja nicht um personenbezogene Daten. Daher sollte es eigentlich kein Problem sein.

Sinnlos ist die Maßnahme natürlich trotzdem. Apple sollte sich lieber an die gewöhnlichen Regeln im deutschen Einzelhandel halten (Abstandsregel und Mund-Nase-Bedeckung).

Not useless at all. It _will_ reduce infections to some degree.
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The Express is no doubt being irresponsible by just comparing two data points here. A meaningful trendline requires more data. It's premature to say whether the reduced restrictions were a smart idea.

UK data follows a weird up-and-down pattern through the week. Sunday and Monday very low, Tuesday a huge spike, followed by the same up and down pattern every week. All over the place. If you compare Sunday with previous Sunday, Monday with previous Monday etc. you get a very smooth curve. Germany could be the same. I can almost guarantee next Tuesday's death numbers in the UK will be 2.5 to 3 times higher than next Monday's numbers.

 

[Morgenland]

Michael Ronellenfitsch (the data protection commissioner of Hesse) is known as a man of limited thinking. I've heared that half of Germany laughs at him.
Such people can always become dangerous, because they have a position of power to defend their little ego.
This too is a cross-continental virus.

 

[Morgenland]

What's the point in doing this? Many people do get a fever, and many people have symptoms. Kicking them out reduces everyone's risk. It reduces the risk, not to zero, but it reduces it. And nobody is forced to have their temperature measured, you can always stay outside.
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Not useless at all. It _will_ reduce infections to some degree.
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UK data follows a weird up-and-down pattern through the week. Sunday and Monday very low, Tuesday a huge spike, followed by the same up and down pattern every week. All over the place. If you compare Sunday with previous Sunday, Monday with previous Monday etc. you get a very smooth curve. Germany could be the same. I can almost guarantee next Tuesday's death numbers in the UK will be 2.5 to 3 times higher than next Monday's numbers.

'UK data follows a weird up-and-down pattern through the week'. Kidding?

source: RKI; german newspaper

Corona-Update: Die aktuellen Zahlen zur Pandemie im Überblick

Wie viele Fälle wurden bisher in Deutschland und weltweit gemeldet? Welche Länder haben eine steile Entwicklung? Wie ist die Lage auf Deutschlands Intensivstationen? Die aktuellen Zahlen der Corona-Krise in Grafiken und Karten.

interaktiv.morgenpost.de

 

[makr]

Apple Store is private space.
Should be able to ask temperature, like clubs ask ID?
Thermometers don't store data.

Not really, it's very much public.

 

[torontotim]

Funny, I was focused on how they illuminated the Apple sign in the window. Couldn't see any means to supply power.

Searching Google for the image shows it's the Apple store in Schildergasse Germany, and it suggests they Photoshopped out the power conduit. Photo seems to be from the Facebook page for the store.

Beyond that, checking temps is shady at best. Airlines are moving towards that in Canada with great opposition and criticism.

 

[I7guy]

It's worse than that. Forehead scanners are known to have both false positives and false negatives.

Visiting a doctor recently, they were checking everyone's temperature with a forehead scanner before they could enter the building. My partner tested over and we had to wait in the carpark for someone in a hazmat suit to repeat the test with an ear probe. No temperature by that reading and we were told it happens every day.

Is Apple going to do follow up by doing a proper temperature check? If not, then they're creating a huge amount of stress for people who think they might be sick when they're perfectly healthy. And also people who are infected might not bother to get tested because they think they don't have a fever when they do.


Yes there is. If your employer tells you to buy something, and you refuse "because I don't want my temperature scanned" you're likely to be fired.

Also plenty of stuff they provide isn't available anywhere else. Warranty service for example.

Not doing anything is always worse than doing something that may have a margin of error. There is no perfect solution and we all have to do the best with what is available.

 

[torontotim]

Not really, it's very much public.

How on earth do you figure a store is a public space?
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Not doing anything is always worse than doing something that may have a margin of error. There is no perfect solution and we all have to do the best with what is available.

How big is the margin of error? You won't feel so great about this when you're turned away from a flight or other service because your temperature is 2 degrees higher than mine.

There is ZERO science supporting using temperature to screen for Covid. Show me the study that suggests it's even remotely useful, and then we can talk about using temps to screen employees and customers.

 

[weckart]

It’s just two days being compared. I wouldn’t read too much into it. Make weekly averages and then draw trendlines.

More than just comparing two individual bits of data, rather than a trend, even the daily figures hide a lot of underlying information. For example how many of those "new" infections are genuinely new following the lockdown relaxation and how many of those are backdated infections that took their sweet while to filter through the reporting system? I know that the UK draws all of its data from disparate areas and organisations and the resulting figures are anything but JIT information, particularly those related to deaths. I suspect Germany is very similar.

 

[Koivari]

Checking peoples body temperatures in stores is a complete joke anyway.

 

[I7guy]

...
How big is the margin of error?

I didn't say I knew what the margin of error was.

You won't feel so great about this when you're turned away from a flight or other service because your temperature is 2 degrees higher than mine.

This is some fallacious "appeal to emotion" type of argument.

There is ZERO science supporting using temperature to screen for Covid. Show me the study that suggests it's even remotely useful, and then we can talk about using temps to screen employees and customers.

This is about common sense, since high temperatures are known to be associated with covid-19 symptoms. As this type of screening is about to become commonplace, I don't have to show any study. Discuss this with the stores, airlines, restaurants etc that potentially will be implementing this.

 

[nostresshere]

Interesting.

What about airports that are doing this?

 

[gnasher729]

'UK data follows a weird up-and-down pattern through the week'. Kidding?

Absolutely not. Take a graph with _daily_ numbers. Like https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ then scroll to the bottom where you get daily numbers. Read the numbers instead of looking at graphs that hide the information.

 

[rgbrock1]

This is a lie and you shouldn't believe it. Have a look here if you want some real stats: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/
The fact is that Germany had 72865 active infections on April the 6th. Now, 35 days later we have 19298 active cases. If the trend continues then Germany will probably be Coronavirus free by the end of June/beginning of July. There is no second wave (currently).

It's a lie because it comes from the Express in the UK which lies, or embellishes, all the time.

 

[MacMan988]

One day there will be a lawsuit against apple for asking a customer what they are looking for.