In duopoly markets, yes.
They are.
That’s hyperbole (your words).
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Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'
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This isn’t Sega vs Nintendo anymore. If I want a new console I’ll just plug it into the spare HDMI port in my TV and have two. People don’t carry 2 phones around just to maintain an App Library unless they’re reviewers.
The mass back and forth over 40+ pages isn’t going anywhere. At the end of the day I don’t see a convincing argument as to why Apple, for example, opening up iCloud or Apple Watch to Android increasing competition and their own revenue stream suddenly makes the ecosystem worse and is a hill to die on.
Life is too short for arguments (he says after 40 pages!) and so I propose a counter-thread on the main page that asks users what they love about the Apple ecosystem.
Lets build bridges, not walls.
Peace out.
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None of this has anything to do with consumer welfare. Consumers are happay with their iPhone. DoJ is trying to argue that we would be better off if each bank could use its own payment system because uh... that would save the banks money. Yeah.
What happened here is that Apple massively p***ed off their developers and now they are paying the price. Multiple billion dollar companies have been aggressively lobbying Congress, DoJ and FTC to intervene. It has nothing to do with what consumers want. Companies that were bullied by Apple want the biggest bully of all, the US Government, to force Apple to give them better contractual terms, even if makes a worse experience for Apple’s customers. They’ll sell it all in the language of consumer welfare and antitrus, but it’s all BS. The market is perfectly fine if you’re a consumer looking for a smartphone. If you’re a big app developer who wants access to Apple’s valuable user bas, you’re dealing with a monopsony and it sucks for you. But what sucks for these companies is often great for consumer.
What happened here is that Apple massively p***ed off their developers and now they are paying the price. Multiple billion dollar companies have been aggressively lobbying Congress, DoJ and FTC to intervene. It has nothing to do with what consumers want. Companies that were bullied by Apple want the biggest bully of all, the US Government, to force Apple to give them better contractual terms, even if makes a worse experience for Apple’s customers. They’ll sell it all in the language of consumer welfare and antitrus, but it’s all BS. The market is perfectly fine if you’re a consumer looking for a smartphone. If you’re a big app developer who wants access to Apple’s valuable user bas, you’re dealing with a monopsony and it sucks for you. But what sucks for these companies is often great for consumer.
Well, if Apple actually discriminated against any of those identifiable groups, and didn't sell to them, the government should definitely get involved.
For your store example though, it would be a more appropriate analogy to say that you now have to let the neighbouring business come into your store and use your equipment. And you need to make sure you set up all those customers from your example with free access to that neighbour in your store so they have the ability to buy your neighbouring business's services, and you need to provide a conversion method for your old data so they can easily use it on the neighbour's product that the neighbour sells for a lower price than you, because he has lower overhead and development costs than you. And apparently a big point is that you need to give them all access to your blue phone so they can make long distance calls on your phone line because it works better than the neighbour's green phone, and you were mean and wouldn't let him tap into your phone line before.
I am an Apple iPhone/Watch/iPad owner and still think, Apple is being shaken down for anti competitive practices and quite rightly so. Whether it be Apples fault or Governments fault, no place in this day and age for fractured messaging systems.
Apologists will have both arguments covered:
If Apples fault - why should Apple support parity sms to android devices
If Governments fault - what rights do governments have in imposing that Apple allow feature parity to android devices.
The blue/green is a big thing in the US with Apple apologists sneering down at non Apple users, well at least in rose coloured Apple forums.
Apple needs to go through the same process MS did in the 90s.
Other than the positive impact on the markets, it will hopefully get them back to focusing on innovative products rather than incremental improvements designed to squeeze every last bit of value for the shareholders.
Other than the positive impact on the markets, it will hopefully get them back to focusing on innovative products rather than incremental improvements designed to squeeze every last bit of value for the shareholders.
I truly do not understand how anyone can care about the blue/green thing. I honestly thought it was a joke, but it seems this really is an issue for some. It just seems a very strange priority, like a 0th world problem.
I think the government just kept hearing complaints about an "Apple Tax" and figured Apple were encroaching on their turf. The godfather doesn't appreciate upstarts! 😀
(I use only iPhone/iPad/Apple watch)
Would Android be allowed to install an app on an iPhone that showed iMessages, android messages (if there is such a thing?) and sms messages?
Would Apple allow the default messaging App to be replaced with an Android one?
Messaging is more like public infrastructure and Apple will vigorously defend against that and these are monopoly behaviours.
Apple is the arbritar of what it allows on its iPhone and iPad but not on its desktop OS.
The DOJ/EU does not control which App store a person shops at.
Why should I, an Apple user, not be able to send iMessages to my son who uses an Android phone or share my position using find my phone?
Apple doesn't let other apps use iMessage on their desktop OS. Public infrastructure is SMS, whereas iMessage is an Apple protocol.
Your complaint about setting a default messaging app is reasonable, though.
If they settle, what are the stakes, how about a new Macbook Pro with 16gb ram, if they lose and don't shut down, how about a Porsche 911, I say they settle, I say if they lose there is zero chance they shut it all down, ready to gamble?
The older models work with the Iphone, the Galaxy Watch 6 does not.
Exactly. Also, they double dip.
DOJ: Apple also generates substantial and increasing revenue by charging developers to help users find their apps in the App Store—something that, for years, Apple told developers was part of the reason they paid a 30 percent tax in the first place. For example, Apple will sell keyword searches for an app to someone other than the owner of the app. Apple is able to command these rents from companies of all sizes, including some of the largest and most sophisticated companies in the world.
What if I want to send an iMessage to my sons Android phone? Or maybe share my position from find my iPhone? Would Apple allow an App that does that on the Apple store?
I think some things on a phone are becoming more like public infrastructure and to allow the market to improve, some things need to be opened up and opened up is another way of saying anti-competitive.
Some people discriminate against green bubble people, newsflash, everything discussed on this website is a first world problem or zero as you put it, remember the Seinfeld episode, Elaine and that area code, same thing happens with the green bubbles.
Apple has been swimming in the government turf for years, Al Gore on their board, lobbyists paid millions, and taking a billion dollars in state and local subsidies, not to mention tax breaks and storing vast profits offshore to avoid a single penny of tax on said money (Double Irish), if they or any Apple shills want to act all high and mighty, then Apple should refuse all government help moving forward, we won't even get into the origins of the technology they profit off of, massive profits from government funded research that produced said innovations.
If downloading another App store makes it more confusing, how would a confused user find said app store in the first place? A knowledgeable user will easily find the other App Store, either as an App or via browser or via side loading.
Why need other app stores anyway - just integrate them all together in a single app.
You seemed to have missed the /s, it seems. It was my reply to somebody who said Apple can do whatever because they built the business.
Oh man, that sucks. Sorry to hear that. Not sure how that is Apple's fault, since Samsung obviously has the ability to make it work, based on the earlier models. I assume it is simple capitalism, and there are not enough of us that mix OSes. Makes me sad, but trying to legislate something into existence when there is not enough demand to make it profitable is a very expensive and slippery slope (in this case I am assuming that Samsung didn't stop supporting something that was making them a profit, but dumber things have happened, I guess.)
“Singlehandedly responsible”?
So developers of apps have no responsibility in the growth of their apps?
👉🏻 That‘s a hilarious take.
They don‘t have to allow third-party apps on their operating system. Yet they did and do. And they‘re making money from it and restricting competition. So what‘s your point?
Of course someone can tell you:
- Retail payment infrastructure and systems are essential for the functioning of the retail economy and in people‘s everyday lives
- NFC payments with mobile devices (smartphones or watches) are/will overtake and replace payments with physical cards.
- Apple provide a part of that infrastructure with their NFC payment service and they’re making money from it
- Apple‘s devices aren’t dedicated payment devices. Their NFC payment functionality is only a minor consideration (it at all) when being bought by consumers. Payment services are a separate relevant market from smartphones.
- Apple are restricting payment provider‘s access to consumers that use iPhones/smartphones and are expecting them to be able to also used as payment devices.
And if I sell my iPhone apple will let me connect my Apple watch to my new Android Phone?
I dream of a movie about an alternate universe where Apple says "you've convinced us" and shuts the App Store down, as I think it would make a cool story to explore, but that seems a bad business move. It would actually be kind of funny if they did say they weren't really making as much as everyone thinks and just closed the store, though. "We did a cost analysis and determined it just wasn't worth all this drama! We read the MacRumors Forum and it broke our hearts." 😀
People don't need 3rd party app stores to get hacked be it via Apple Safari or Apple App Store
Translation: Apple behaved like a publicly held US corporation (and many non-US corporations). Don't hate the player, hate the game.