so Apple closed a loophole and Beeper had to find a workaround... then gave up.
it's like Jailbraking. it worked, then didnt. people just decided it wasnt worth the effort after a while.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
it's like Jailbraking. it worked, then didnt. people just decided it wasnt worth the effort after a while.
I'd actually be more interested in the DOJ investigating Apple and Google as a duopoly cartel. Google quite happily supports iOS yet its lack of native apps on Windows Phone killed it as a third option. At the same time Apple accepts billions from Google to keep it as the default search engine on iOS making it harder for the likes of Bing to get any foothold.
2011 was the last year that the mobile space was interesting because as a consumer Windows Phone 7 and WebOS not only tried something different but largely succeeded given Apple and Google are still picking clean their corpses and calling it innovation. Windows Phone was enough to get Apple to aesthetically redesign the whole of iOS7 (which still remains with us) and Google to finally tidy up Android and make it look presentable with Lollipop.
Competition bred exciting innovation in both companies yet with only each other for company both iOS and Android have stagnated somewhat and not kept up with hardware advancements. Surely something we can all get behind is some new exciting ideas in our phone operating systems?
2011 was the last year that the mobile space was interesting because as a consumer Windows Phone 7 and WebOS not only tried something different but largely succeeded given Apple and Google are still picking clean their corpses and calling it innovation. Windows Phone was enough to get Apple to aesthetically redesign the whole of iOS7 (which still remains with us) and Google to finally tidy up Android and make it look presentable with Lollipop.
Competition bred exciting innovation in both companies yet with only each other for company both iOS and Android have stagnated somewhat and not kept up with hardware advancements. Surely something we can all get behind is some new exciting ideas in our phone operating systems?
No, WhatsApp and 3rd party app don’t even have access to standard SMS. Apple does and combine it with their own messaging system, make it proprietary and non operable outside iOS. So once you are on iMessage you are stuck, it’s not possible to get similar functionality from another app.
After listening to one of the DOJ attorneys on CNBC, this is an incredibly weak case. All he spoke about was how Apple charges too much to enter its ecosystem and that consumers and developers want lower prices and fees. It sounds like the DOJ is representing tech companies that have complained about Apple rather than what's in the best interest of the consumer.
Yes, but that the point is that it worked, which means it was technically possible. Jailbreaking shows the same: it would be technically possible for Apple to allow third-party applications to be installed, or third-party stores as those have existed since even before the original App Store was released.
IMHO the question is not going to be about technical implementations: it will be about whether Apple should be allowed to make these as business decisions first and foremost. If Apple is determined to not have monopoly power they likely can, if they are determined to have monopoly power they might not.
Apples motive is obvious. This threatens the way they do business. Heck the whole atv+ thing is predicated on selling services and getting 30%. Avp probably wouldn’t see daylight.
With falling iPhone sales this hit to its services would be a huge blow. Going concern as a growth stock? You can’t justify buying the stock right now.
However this is apples fault. They’ve had time and opportunity to diversify hardware and create new revenue streams. Or focus on software. It’s the same crappy services and lack of essential anything that hurts Apple. They’ve known for years that Siri blows. Microsoft flew right by them riding high on AI.
Look at latest surface pro. It has a dedicated AI button on keyboard. Co pilot. Meanwhile Tim is fumbling around and just decided ok let’s can this Apple car mess. After failing with a 4000 dollar vr headset claiming people would actually wear this thing for 8-10 hours a day to run baby apps. Oh and now let’s look at googles half baked ai to integrate with iOS after pretending to be a privacy advocate. You can’t make this up.
What Beeper could do; Apple could have done easily. It could have done it legally without compromising security unlike beeper.
Default to SMS when messaging Android phones, which is a security and Privacy risk.
So, why is Apple okay with it? So, it can protect its revenues by locking down the ecosystem.
Does that mean revenues are more important than security and privacy for Apple?
So, why does it keep touting about security and privacy?
Phew! I hope you got it now.
Let's hope this pushes them to finally innovate, instead of just relying on past successes.
Well, he could not read out the entire 88 pages, right? It is available if you want to read it. It is pretty comprehensive.
But this is just the former DOJ antitrust chief. What does he know? /s
Former DOJ antitrust chief: Apple suit is "damning"
From CNN's Brian FungThe Apple lawsuit contains "damning" internal communications, a former top antitrust official with the Justice Department told CNN.
During Thursday's press conference, Attorney General Merrick Garland referenced a 2013 internal communication in which a senior Apple executive acknowledged that improving how Apple works with third-party messaging platforms would "simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones."
He also referenced a 2022 event at which Apple CEO Tim Cook was confronted about Android-to-iPhone messaging compatibility. Cook responded with the recommendation to "buy your mom an iPhone" to resolve the issue.
On a call with reporters Thursday, Apple representatives dismissed those internal messages as old and taken out of context, vowing to provide full context in litigation.
Apple DOES have a monopoly on Apple products. So they are obviously evil.
I hate all of this. I hate bogus government interference. I hate when people support such, out of their own ignorance and screwed up philosophies. I hate it all.
I’m not even a fan of Apple. I like the products, and I like how their products work for me. I consider all of the tech companies to be evil, it’s just that Apple’s particular business model serves me the best.
But leave them alone unless they truly do something wrong. And this isn’t it.
This is long overdue. This is not the only case that the DOJ is pursuing. There are several that it is pursuing. Details are on the DOJ website.
The model is a problem. I give you an example:
few years back, Coinigy (trader UI app) had an iPad app that allowed you to trade. Beautiful UI, intuitive design and overall great experience. I've used the Coinigy for a while back so was super excited to learn that iPad app is available too.
Guess what? After few monhts, Apple changed their app policy and because Coinigy wasn't providing the service but just interface where you put your api Apple said its not allowed and forced Coinigy to remove the only reason why the app was fantastic. So, I've stopped using it as there is no need for another 'chart' tool (tradeview is what i use now).
And thats the whole problem. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to be this way. They 'cripple' innovation themselves by imposing rules like that one in Coinigy's case.
Mac is open and accessible and we are not screaming that we need auditor Apple to shield us. So, we need the same on the iOS. If Mac can do it then so can iOS
few years back, Coinigy (trader UI app) had an iPad app that allowed you to trade. Beautiful UI, intuitive design and overall great experience. I've used the Coinigy for a while back so was super excited to learn that iPad app is available too.
Guess what? After few monhts, Apple changed their app policy and because Coinigy wasn't providing the service but just interface where you put your api Apple said its not allowed and forced Coinigy to remove the only reason why the app was fantastic. So, I've stopped using it as there is no need for another 'chart' tool (tradeview is what i use now).
And thats the whole problem. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to be this way. They 'cripple' innovation themselves by imposing rules like that one in Coinigy's case.
Mac is open and accessible and we are not screaming that we need auditor Apple to shield us. So, we need the same on the iOS. If Mac can do it then so can iOS
The DOJ has been investigating Google regarding antitrust matters related to its search and service advertising dominance. How that plays out could impact the default search agreement Google has with Apple.
what Beeper did was not what Apple wanted to do.
you can't force a company to create anything. it's business. they decide where to spend their dev time and effort and what the return is.
Apple has some Android apps. and some they dont want to create because they are happy to have them as Apple only.
Final Cut Pro and Login require Apple hardware.
Are you going to force other companies to write software for Apple devices?
All the games that arent there now?
It's a two way street... force Apple's hand, force every other dev too...
But they can force Apple to let them share the same private APIs that it uses with Messages to 3rd party super apps. That would be enough.
Perhaps Apple should sue the DoJ for defamation.
They basically called them crooks.
They have already damaged the stock price and may impact it further.
Actions have consequences.
The DoJ should not be above being held responsible.
What right does any government body have to tell a company what they can charge?
Price regulation is market control and can negatively impact value as well.
They basically called them crooks.
They have already damaged the stock price and may impact it further.
Actions have consequences.
The DoJ should not be above being held responsible.
What right does any government body have to tell a company what they can charge?
Price regulation is market control and can negatively impact value as well.
DOJ is more far reaching compared to the DMA. Which part of it do you think is fiction? Let me know and I will sections of the DOJ Lawsuit that deals with it.
So, are you ok with Apple compromising your (Apple user) security and privacy even though a trivial solution is available but Apple is not implementing it just to safeguard its profits? What more can anyone argue with you?
I can't speak for every developer but there are aspects of what Apple offers, particularly with in-app/subscription purchases, that 15-30% is a fair cut. I think that is especially true for small developers that don't want to build out authentication systems (and their ancillary management) and payment processing systems (and their ancillary management). Where this concession breaks down is only for large firms that have the scale to build out their own standalone systems to do these things cheaper than handing Apple 15-30% of every transaction.
What is going on here isn't pro-consumer regulation, at least explicitly, even though heavily lobbied and propagandized politicians will wrap it up in this language. This is resentment from large firms that Apple's perpetual growth is partly thanks to their rent-seeking behaviors. These corporate interests have successfully swayed the US government - much like Spotify did with the EU - with cynical pro-consumer language that is ultimately about extracting some of Apple's growth back into their quarterly statements. Nothing more, nothing less. If anything comes of this lawsuit that makes things better for consumers, it will be an accident.
Despite being dismissive of the high-mindedness of the DoJ, I do agree that Apple should be forced to provide clear, secure methods to provide alternatives to their storefront (both side-loading and 3rd party stores) or in-app/subscription processing systems. I think there is a lot of value in what Apple provides to small development shops and independent developers. However, the continued restrictions to only use Apple services is mostly about scraping over the top of every loot box, emote, skin, etc in these psychologically manipulative free-to-play games that pervade the Apple App Store OR extract rents from competitors in the app service space.
Once again, more pressing issues that need to be addressed. Have a good one.This is long overdue. This is not the only case that the DOJ is pursuing. There are several that it is pursuing. Details are on the DOJ website.
Apple isn’t ending the company to “protect Steve’s legacy” stop being melodramatic.
If Apple losses they’ll comply with the court ordered conditions.
I am surprised that you are not outraged that Apple had an easy solution that could have safeguarded your privacy and security but instead prioritized its profits while chanting privacy mantra at every turn.
To each his own, I guess. Maybe you do not worry about privacy and security much. Only words when it suits you (by you I do not mean you, I mean users supporting this)