Apple Sued for 'All-Seeing Eye' Employee Device Monitoring Policy

[Unregistered 4U]

I don't know what's worse. The person who agreed to install poop on his private own phone instead of getting the free company phone. The person who complains about using said phone with the poop he agreed to. The company which treats you so badly and I am not talking about the phone part. Or the people in the comment section who actually defend Apple about this.

Perhaps they all suck.

I mean, two of those four are the same person, so, by your summation the person who agreed to install poop and complained about said poop.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

this person had a job that required a lot of work. he was a worker bee.
he worked principally from home.
he wanted to leave apple and find a better job.
apple did not like the way he was letting people know what he was working on.
the process that apple used to isolate and intimidate this worker bee was probably brutal, but entirely legal under california law.

you want a life after you quit your company?
you want companies to be interested in hiring you after you leave company?
then don't do what this guy did.

Don’t forget, Apple would not have known about the way he was letting people know what he was working on if he wasn’t posting from a phone that he agreed to have rooted by Apple.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I am not sure how one gets a job at Apple and doesn't know how secretive Apple is and the lengths they would goto to protect those secrets. It's almost as if Apple knows there are entire websites dedicated to leaks, rumors, or secrets that could give competitors a glimpse at what they are producing next or can cause the stock price to go up or down.

Could have planned this from day one. Even if he gets a payday smaller than expected, could still be worth their effort.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple HR: Why is there pr0n mixed with trade secret information on your phone?
Employee: Why are you searching my phone?
Apple HR: You agreed to periodic searches when you signed your employment contract. You wanted to use your own phone.
Employee: I did what?
Apple HR: We gave you options.
Employee: I did what?

I don't recall how many non-disclosure agreements I signed during my career, but that's part of life working in software development. I can't imagine working for Apple, Microsoft, Google, and or the secretive businesses with sensitive government contracts.

You must forget the dream and wake up to the reality.

Not knowing the contents of a lengthy NDA because you’re focused on just getting the ID badge and paycheck, that’s one thing. However, giving your phone to someone is a physical act that shouldn’t be taken lightly. One would HOPE one would just take the company phone, OR, does everyone in tech these days just hand over their phones to the companies they work for rather than take a free company phone?

 

[cycomiko]

Good to see folks willing to ignore labour law issues because they buy devices from a company. Even the pathetic labour laws US sets.

yOu ShOUlD hAvE NoT siGNed ThE ConTraCT

 

[drumcat]

Should have read the employment contract.

Contracts don't supersede laws. That's the point here.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yeah, crazy. I love Apple, but this was just awful when I worked there. They would tell us to basically try to change the topic if someone asked us what we did for work. No joke. They didn't want people outside of Apple knowing we worked for Apple.

Apple’s likely keenly aware of how many Apple employees have, unfortunately, been coerced into providing privileged information and then been jobless a few days later. Good that you weren’t one of those, bad that people target folks for where they work.

 

[jz0309]

Contracts don't supersede laws. That's the point here.

can you please cite the law(s) that were broken?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Wow, I am surprised at how many people are on Apple’s side.

It’s mainly because “Apple’s side” is the side of “Being cognizant of agreements you enter into and upholding those agreements” in this particular instance. Anyone that has paid for a service and received the service they paid for, has ever had to deal with a damaged product and had that product repaired or replaced OR has ever decided to return something within a return period and had that return honored (and many more) are all people that would be on “Apple’s side”.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If every company does this

If every company offers employees the use of company phones? Yeah, that’d be awesome.

 

[quietstormSD]

So dumb. If Apple does all that, then don't work there. It's not like an employee is forced to work there. This **** should be thrown out. I'm not a defender of trillion-dollar companies, but I am against frivolous law suits.

This Amar Bhakta guy won't be getting hired anywhere after this for sure.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Eventually she left and the second in command was promoted.

She “left” or was invited to depart due to being so chatty and spilled secrets herself?

 

[bousozoku]

Not knowing the contents of a lengthy NDA because you’re focused on just getting the ID badge and paycheck, that’s one thing. However, giving your phone to someone is a physical act that shouldn’t be taken lightly. One would HOPE one would just take the company phone, OR, does everyone in tech these days just hand over their phones to the companies they work for rather than take a free company phone?

I would always take the company phone because I would probably throw it at someone at the end. j/k

How many times did someone leave a prototype phone at a restaurant or bar because they already had two phones with them?

I worked for a small software developer near two universities. Most everyone had their own computer at home and work computers were supposed to be work computers. The writers and graphic artists bought Macs through the developer program and got decent deals. They might have had personal stuff mixed with work stuff, but the company wasn't worried that someone would leave the company with the source code to the applications.

 

[saint.duo]

So his "innie" can't talk to "outies" – I think there's an AppleTV show about this...

Also though this is very weird:

That's soooo weird if true. The whole point of using a Managed Apple Account (neé Managed Apple ID) is that when you use a managed account an app is able to put that data in a separate APFS volume for just work stuff and they don't co-mingle. Of course if he joined in 2020, there's were TONS of things Managed Apple IDs couldn't do (like iCloud Keychain for one!) and still have limitations so maybe they did have him use a personal Apple ID? 🤔 Very weird.

I'd be shocked. I remember old friends who worked there mentioning they had to make new Apple IDs just for work use back in the day when managed Apple IDs weren't a thing yet, to keep work & personal stuff separated.

 

[B-Mc-C]

So his "innie" can't talk to "outies" – I think there's an AppleTV show about this...

Also though this is very weird:

That's soooo weird if true. The whole point of using a Managed Apple Account (neé Managed Apple ID) is that when you use a managed account an app is able to put that data in a separate APFS volume for just work stuff and they don't co-mingle. Of course if he joined in 2020, there's were TONS of things Managed Apple IDs couldn't do (like iCloud Keychain for one!) and still have limitations so maybe they did have him use a personal Apple ID? 🤔 Very weird.

Can’t be true. I’m betting that since he chose to use his personal device, he decided to

He agreed to most of this, but the court will find that Apple cannot prevent him from filling out his LinkedIn and looking for work the rest of his life. That part is unreasonable.

He signed an NDA. If he wants to talk about confidential / unreleased projects on a public LinkedIn profile in violation of the NDA, Apple can and surely will prevent him from doing so.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

When you leave ... many companies fail to understand using a blanket 'Wipe Device' actually DESTROY's a Person's PERSONAL data

The company certainly doesn’t fail to understand. They ABSOLUTELY understand as they’re the ones that have folks on payroll to ensures the software they’re spending a not insignificant amount of money on will do exactly what they want it to do, in the way they want it to do it. The ONLY person that doesn’t understand, in this case, is the person that gave their device to a third party for them to install “who knows what” on.

 

[Trusteft]

I mean, two of those four are the same person, so, by your summation the person who agreed to install poop and complained about said poop.

And?

 

[kilimanjaro]

For me, the worst one is having to essentially hide or keep secret what he's worked on once he's left Apple. i.e. on LinkedIn.

Some people think that working at Apple is the greatest thing ever and that no-one should complain - ever.
I have been using and mostly loving Apple products for over 40 years.. but I know that Apple is not my friend.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

maybe choose a company-owned device next time, instead of wasting judicial resources?

Yes, and the irony is that he’s most likely going to lose. The NDA he signed prohibits him from talking about his job and his role.
Also, using his personal iPhone for work was a dumb idea, because if there’s company incident involving him either directly or indirectly, he may have to surrender his personal iPhone as evidence.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

What does it say in your contract? Does it say "We have the right to monitor you both professionally and privately and you must never even hint at where you work"?

It’s probably right under “You have the OPTION to give us full access to your device. We’ll provide you with a work device if you so choose to use a company provided device. But, if you don’t want to, you have the option to give us full access to your device.”

It’s not even “monitoring” at that point, it’s just doing the thing they said they’d do when the employee decided to use their personal device for work.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

America is so skewed, it's not even funny. I'm so happy I live in a country were privacy and human rights is something that needs to be respected, a company can't simply write and enforce terms as they see fit.

You can't use any kind of surveillance against any of your employees, and pretty much all kinds of such surveillance will give you a lot of trouble in regard to GDPR, which happens to protect both the consumer, but also employees within companies.

To be fair, if America wasn’t so skewed… I mean, think of the tech that you use every day. How much of that is based on or provided by companies in the US that, as a result, have a business need to maintain a high level of secrecy? I hadn’t thought of this before, but that could be one reason why those companies aren’t in certain regions of the world anymore.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

just imagine, your project gets caught up in a lawsuit, and now that device you were using for work, it becomes evidence. If it's a personal device that you were counting on trading in, well, not anymore. It may even be confiscated to preserve evidence. If you use a secondary personal device, like an older phone, and have it signed into a separate work related apple ID, well, now you've airgapped your personal from your work devices. Plus, for company work, email, texts, it's not like an older phone is going to be much of a hindrance compared to the latest and greatest.

And, even though it may not be admitted as evidence, it’s now a matter of public record. Folks have had all sorts of embarrassing information put out there due to using their personal device.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

And?

You said you didn’t know what was worse. I was letting you know.

 

[talkin73]

there's a difference WHERE you speak about those, a Linkedin profile shows your name and employer for example, and using that as a platform to share that kind of info is not acceptable.

Is sharing that type of information prohibited by LinkedIn’s terms of service?

 

[nycgeo]

California Apple employee Amar Bhakta has filed a lawsuit against Apple for alleged labor violations, accusing the Cupertino company of suppressing employee speech, invading employee privacy though surveillance and inspecting personal data, and clawing back earned wages (via Semafor).

Bhakta sued Apple after Apple prohibited him from speaking about his work experience on podcasts and also instructed him to remove information about his "working conditions and work experiences" from his LinkedIn profile. He says that Apple's policies prevent employees from adequately describing their job responsibilities, accomplishments, and professional growth on sites like LinkedIn, hindering their ability to find employment.

Further, Bhakta claims that Apple employees are prohibited from disclosing the skills, knowledge, and experience they gained at Apple when working for a subsequent employer, plus they are not allowed to speak with each other or outsiders about problems at work like harassment, discrimination, or unfair treatment.

Apple employees are required to use Apple devices, software, and services, and the devices "collect and use the valuable personal data" of employees during non-work periods. The lawsuit states that employees have to agree to physical, video, and electronic surveillance by Apple, with Apple able to search Apple and non-Apple devices and other property when an employee is on "company premises," including in a home office. The Apple ecosystem is described as a "prison yard" for employees, with workers subject to "Apple's all-seeing eye" both on and off duty.

The lawsuit takes issue with Apple's requirement that employees use Apple collaboration tools with an iCloud account, often a personal iCloud account. Bhakta says Apple allowed him to choose to use an Apple-owned iPhone or a personal iPhone for work, and when he chose his personal phone, Apple installed an eSIM and VPN, and required him to use his personal iCloud account to collaborate with colleagues. He claims that Apple has forced him to remain an Apple consumer, and that he is required to continue to patronize Apple.

Bhakta was hired at Apple in July 2020 as a Digital Ad Tech/Operations Manager, and he was required to sign documents listing the Apple policies that are cited in the lawsuit.

The lawsuit seeks damages for violations of the California Labor Code as well as "appropriate injunctive relief" to protect California Apple employees from future violations.

Article Link: Apple Sued for 'All-Seeing Eye' Employee Device Monitoring Policy

Makes me feel great to have an apple device with 100+ sensors of all types in my pocket all day, every day, and night