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I agree - whoever thinks its Balmer or Gates is a complete idiot - why would Microsoft want Mac OS X on more machines? They are in competition with Mac OS X not Macs (they don't make computers - just software)
Now I'm thinking random companie would hugely benefit from this but the biggest one would be Dell. These companies want a cheapo Dell mini system to put at 10,000 desks in an office building with a better operating system especiall since the only other choice (viable choice) is Vista so there you have it - if Psystar wins - Dell can sell their machines to all of these businesses with Mac OS X installed on it and these companies will get a good operating system on a crappy machine.

However - if Psystar wins I can see Apple charging a premium for non Mac machines or bringing the price up while offering some incentive for owning a Mac as legally as they can.




Well, kinda figured there was more to the story. A no name company from out of nowhere suddenly has the guts to stand up to a multi-billion dollar corporation and its team of lawyers. and you know Apple has there lawyers on retainer, so they can drag Psyster through the mud and take as long as they want - otherwise Psyster would have given up, due to cost a long time ago (I mean they cannot be selling that many machines to be making money - any sales figures anyone?).

I would laugh if it was some big name company like Dell, IBM, etc. After all, IBM was looking at Apples, and Dell really wanted to sell OS X machines bad *and last look Dell's stock was not going that great.

Dell Inc. Dell Inc. NASDAQ DELL 10.55

Of course Apple is not so great right now with the market issues, but I saw Dell drop below $10 recently.
 
First, when you file a lawsuit against a corporation, you typically name the defendants as "XYZ Corporation, and Does 1-100"
No you don't. You sue the corporation. Fictitious defendants only have a place where you have reason to believe that there are other parties you can't explicitly identify, as where you might be suing a company and its suppliers, but can't name the suppliers without the defendant's internal documents to identify them. You can't just add extra parties without claims, in case you might need to add parties. There are other mechanisms for adding parties once you discover the need.
companies don't get put in jail for criminal violations, they get fined.
Hogwash. Part of being on the board of a corporation or a partner at a firm is being on the hook for the company's behavior. Plenty of executives have been sent to jail for corporate criminal acts. That's partly why their salaries are so high; the risk is high. Generally, though, it's more effective to punish the corporation's finances.
Lastly, like all software EULAs, there's no way to agree to Apple's EULA before you buy the software
There's no need to agree before you buy it.
Have you ever tried opening software, and then returning it?
One has nothing to do with the other. You are entitled to a refund for unused software, but the more chances you ignore the opportunity to review the terms, the more work it is to get that refund.
As far as I know, this policy has never been tested in court
Wishing and repeating does not make it so. There are literally hundreds of software licensing cases on the books.
No one should be forced to enter into a contract (the purchase of the software) without knowing and agreeing to the terms and conditions BEFORE the purchase is made, not after.
Buying the box doesn't trigger the license agreement, and the contract of purchase is between you and the retailer; the retailer does not have the authority to grant or deny your access to that which they do not own (i.e. the software in the box). Using what's in the box triggers the license agreement, and no one is required to agree blindly. If you want to know the terms in advance, you have many opportunities to find out easily. It's your responsibility to know the terms; the offeror need only make them available to you.

You know two things: (1) software comes with specific terms for its use from the owner, whether it's free, open source, or for-purchase proprietary and (2) breaking the closest disc seal makes it difficult to return (by store, not publisher, policy). The obvious solution is to take one of the several opportunities to review the terms in advance to avoid the hassle.
it would invalidate Microsoft's and everyone else's, because they all do it the same way.
It would also invalidate all open source licenses, and everyone doing it the same way for 20 years is a big clue about what's going to happen. SLAs are simply not going to be categorically rejected by any court.

There is plenty of room for streamlining the rejection and return procedures and for additional consumer protections regarding certain suspect license provisions, but the fundamental right of a person to sell and license portions of his property is not going anywhere.
 
Ms Oem Eula

"Psystar was not trying to defeat the EULA. They were trying to make it mean "this software can be used on any machine."

That would not hurt Microsoft in the slightest."

Wrong. Most Windows PCs are sold with OEM install, which has a EULA clause that prevents it being installed in any other computer. So you can't take the XP copy from the old P4 dell and put it on your new homebuilt superbox.

If the EULA goes down then first sale doctrine applies and you can take your copy of XP and put it on any computer that will have it. This will cost Microsoft a lot.

So, the other posters are right, MS is not the power behind Psystar.
 
It does not make sense that MS would fight itself by distributing Mac OS. Therefore, Dick C. might be behind this operation since he is out of his chair soon :D
 
Helping to finance PsyStar's legal defense would not make another company a material participant in PsyStar's business and their assets would not be at risk in any way if PsyStar loses.

A company that would want to sell PC's with OS X, like Dell, could spend millions helping PsyStar pay their legal defense bills with no other risk than losing the cash spent on the lawyers or expert witnesses.

I don't think PsyStar's lawyers are inept, or unknowledgable in antitrust law, but I do think they were slinging mud and seeing what would stick!

The argument they made was ludicrous and not based in the law, hence inept.

And I don't think Apple would buy your legal theory that funding Psystar's lawsuit would not constitute a material involvement with their business. If that were true, then Apple would not be interested to discover their names.
 
Wrong. Most Windows PCs are sold with OEM install, which has a EULA clause that prevents it being installed in any other computer.
OEM license terms vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer and even year to year at the same manufacturer. It really depends on what came packaged with your computer. However, I don't believe any restrict a copy to a particular, singular machine, though I haven't dealt with Windows OEM consumer licenses in a while.
If the EULA goes down then first sale doctrine applies and you can take your copy of XP and put it on any computer that will have it.
DFS always applies, even with a license agreement. People seem to have this mistaken belief that first sale rights exhaustion is some sort of nullification scheme. It's not. It bars only such provisions that state you cannot transfer your interest, and only in transactions of pure goods (e.g. your MMO game and/or its online account doesn't quite work the same way).

You can always sell or transfer your OEM install discs. It's guaranteed by law. This does not remove or alter the special limitations of that copy--a Dell OEM CD for Dell computers only must still be installed on a Dell computer. But you can sell it or move it to another computer if you like.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to buy Apple hardware. However, if Apple's going to continue pandering to idiots and trendtards, I'm not going to have any choice other than to go to a different vendor for my laptops. I'm not going to lug around the boat anchors they're offering now.

I'm not asking for anything crazy. I don't need hybrid SLI and quad core processors in a portable. I'm asking for a small machine that isn't horrifyingly compromised. I'll even settle for the godforsaken trash that is a glossy screen. Just give me something the size of a 12" PowerBook, no larger.

So, the latest MB is 8mm deeper, about 1.5 oz lighter, 5mm thinner and less than 2" wider than the old 12" G4. Considering it is widescreen instead of square, the 2" is hardly noticeable. It's basically the 12" transformed to widescreen. I don't feel like calc-ing the actual screen dimensions, I'm guessing height is nearly identical.

And the Air is, of course, even smaller. But still that 2". Ooohh, how horrific.

You could always fetch a TT.
(that's a Sony in this thread, not Audi)
 
So, the latest MB is 8mm deeper, about 1.5 oz lighter, 5mm thinner and less than 2" wider than the old 12" G4. Considering it is widescreen instead of square, the 2" is hardly noticeable. It's basically the 12" transformed to widescreen. I don't feel like calc-ing the actual screen dimensions, I'm guessing height is nearly identical.

And the Air is, of course, even smaller. But still that 2". Ooohh, how horrific.

You could always fetch a TT.
(that's a Sony in this thread, not Audi)

It's a huge difference when you're actually used to a small machine. I bought a MacBook and sold it 3 months later because it was substantially larger and I wasn't happy about it.

http://spiceweasel.net/macbookvspowerbook.jpg

The MacBook is full of wasted space and fail. I want nothing to do with it. If it was a "12 inch transformed to widescreen", it'd be 11.3" and the exact same width as the 12" PowerBook.

As for the Air? It's not smaller, it's thinner. I don't give a damn about thickness (within reason…) or weight. I care about how much space it takes up on my work area.
 
"Psystar was not trying to defeat the EULA. They were trying to make it mean "this software can be used on any machine."

Wrong. Most Windows PCs are sold with OEM install, which has a EULA clause that prevents it being installed in any other computer. So you can't take the XP copy from the old P4 dell and put it on your new homebuilt superbox.

If the EULA goes down then first sale doctrine applies and you can take your copy of XP and put it on any computer that will have it. This will cost Microsoft a lot.

So, the other posters are right, MS is not the power behind Psystar.
Psystar is not going that far and the right of first sale gives you the right to resell that system as well. Also psystar is not takeing a copy of os x off of a system and moving it to a new one they are giving a boxed copy.
 
The MacBook is full of wasted space and fail. I want nothing to do with it. If it was a "12 inch transformed to widescreen", it'd be 11.3" and the exact same width as the 12" PowerBook.
That doesn't even make sense. You must be one of those people who thinks letterboxing takes AWAY from the picture.

You have ridiculously stringent needs according to that post. Seriously, what could possibly be your workspace? Do you sit right behind Milton in his cube? Why don't you take that picture and put the 12" in the middle of the MB, see what it looks like to your space then.
 
Common Apple just license your OS already. I know so many people that want OS X, but just can't afford/justify the Apple tax.

Yeah Yeah I remember the Apple clones of the 90s, but this is a different age and time.

I don't think its as much the apple tax anymore as much the Apple design penalty. Apple seems to be targeting less demanding, but more fashionable users instead of the usual base. Yes, money is a factor but more in the sense that I don't want to have to buy either a $2000 15" notebook that's bigger and heaver than I want to have a firewire port or a $2300 pro workstation just to get a full size optical drive and more than a single hard drive and have access to without completely dismantling my computer.

For all of you saying not Microsoft, consider this:

Maybe Microsoft thinks that other companies selling OSX will take money out of Apple's pocket, ultimately weakening Apple and undermining the platform.

If OSX were available on other computers, it would be taking money out of Redmond's pockets as well and strengthening the platform. Microsoft would be making less, Apple may or may not be depending on license revenue and increased software sales and how its own hardware sales are effected and the other hardware manufacturers would probably make about the same. Users who would not consider Apple because of their hardware choices might consider OSX over windows. It might seem strange to some of you, but what is good for Apple the corporation company and what is good for the Mac OS X platform are not always the same thing. Mac OS X would benefit from a more varied list of form factors for different types of form factors. On the other hand, those disenchanted with Apple's increasingly narrow hardware choices may take another computer company up on their offer if they had a choice.

:rolleyes:

Yes, I'm a troll, with my MacBook Pro, Time Capsule, Apple TV, iPhone and iPod Touch. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately the Mac community has become so radicalized that anyone who doesn't follow the company line without question is considered a troll. If Apple is infallible, then it is impossible to make a rational argument against their decisions.
 
That doesn't even make sense. You must be one of those people who thinks letterboxing takes AWAY from the picture.

You have ridiculously stringent needs according to that post. Seriously, what could possibly be your workspace? Do you sit right behind Milton in his cube? Why don't you take that picture and put the 12" in the middle of the MB, see what it looks like to your space then.

Brilliant argument on the letterboxing point, considering my occupation…

I do have ridiculously stringent needs: Small. Apple's not capable of doing it any more.

My workspace varies when I use the laptop, hence my need for a small size. I need to be able to use it from everywhere from the floor of a cargo aircraft to a commercial airliner to a proper desk.

As for taking the photo again? Sure. In fact, you'll like this:

lolbooks.jpg
 
It's a huge difference when you're actually used to a small machine. I bought a MacBook and sold it 3 months later because it was substantially larger and I wasn't happy about it.

As for the Air? It's not smaller, it's thinner. I don't give a damn about thickness (within reason…) or weight. I care about how much space it takes up on my work area.

I think you're in a small minority of users who want this feature. Apple has made it clear many times that they don't serve all markets - by choice. I personally don't give a damn about how much space it takes up on my work area so long as it's lightweight and easy to pack.

I agree with the earlier poster about the new MacBook. I'm very impressed by its size. I don't think Apple is going to go smaller in a notebook. Maybe a touch tablet someday, but not a laptop.
 
I think you're in a small minority of users who want this feature. Apple has made it clear many times that they don't serve all markets - by choice. I personally don't give a damn about how much space it takes up on my work area so long as it's lightweight and easy to pack.

I agree with the earlier poster about the new MacBook. I'm very impressed by its size. I don't think Apple is going to go smaller in a notebook. Maybe a touch tablet someday, but not a laptop.

And those markets seem to keep getting smaller and smaller and progressively geared towards the lower end mainstream user.
 
Unfortunately the Mac community has become so radicalized that anyone who doesn't follow the company line without question is considered a troll. If Apple is infallible, then it is impossible to make a rational argument against their decisions.

Not sure how long you've been a Mac user, but trust me, the cult of Jobs has been very very strong since day one. I see nothing more "radical" about Mac users today than twenty years ago. Nothing's changed! ;)
 
I think you're in a small minority of users who want this feature. Apple has made it clear many times that they don't serve all markets - by choice. I personally don't give a damn about how much space it takes up on my work area so long as it's lightweight and easy to pack.

I agree with the earlier poster about the new MacBook. I'm very impressed by its size. I don't think Apple is going to go smaller in a notebook. Maybe a touch tablet someday, but not a laptop.

And that's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. I personally just don't see any products I'd buy under any realistic circumstances in Apple's line, and that wasn't always the case. Thus, I'm disappointed.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'll likely to have to buy a Vaio and hack OS X on to it, and I'm ok with that.
 
Not sure how long you've been a Mac user, but trust me, the cult of Jobs has been very very strong since day one. I see nothing more "radical" about Mac users today than twenty years ago. Nothing's changed! ;)

Pretty much true. I used to be one of the Apple Can Do No Wrong people, but then I hit puberty :p
 
My gripe is no less legitimate than those who don't want to go to a MacBook Pro for size reasons.

I'm not suggesting that the gripe isn't legitimate, but is that 1.5" THAT big a deal? To some, obviously yes. I just don't think Apple cares, nor do I think they're going to one day care. Their laptop line is complete. You either get on board...or you don't. One of the perils of being an Apple customer!
 
And that's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. I personally just don't see any products I'd buy under any realistic circumstances in Apple's line, and that wasn't always the case. Thus, I'm disappointed.

Interesting, because I find their product line more compelling than ever. I love good design. I'm thrilled with the overall design of the iMac. I really don't see how anyone is going to improve upon the concept and form factor. It's absolutely beautiful.

I've been holding out for a 15" Air. I love the idea of a lightweight laptop. I have no need for a DVD drive when I travel, for example. But I want a bigger screen. Although my resolve is crumbling and I have a feeling an Air is in my near future. :)
 
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