Apple Suggests Possible Conspiracy Behind Psystar

[MacsBestFriend]

*enter apple ninjas!!!* "hooahyyyyyyyAH!" *drop kicks bill gates* "ayayyayayayayayaya!" *microsoft nerds throw themselves on ninjas, ninjas shoot them with the new app, iLaser* *nerds fall to the ground* *random kung fu moves and apple ninjas grab the pystar computers, lawyers and bill gates away for questioning* ....

uh... ya. this is the making for a superb kung fu movie!

 

[mcarnes]

Well when you claim leopard is somehow hugely unstable and EXPLORER of all things on windows is good (mine crashes, i kid you not because I had a tally going for a while, an average of 8 or so times a day, on vista) it does seem kinda trollish.

Not trollish, just foolish.

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

Conspiracy? Or maybe the guys need to sell computers to pay off the lawyers.

 

[Tosser]

Hope the Groklaw guys are better in making legal references than references to literature.... Alice said "Curiouser and curiouser".

I'm pretty sure they're better when it comes to reading comprehension:
The author said "as Alice in Wonderland MIGHT say", meaning he didn't actually quote AiW, but played with words in a SIMILAR manner.

When you try to take things as verbatim as you guys do, perhaps you should at least READ the WHOLE.

So even if you assume the Groklaw author knew this and was adapting it, that should be "interester and interester", which is equally silly.

See above.

If one must try to link "interesting", go for a "Laugh in" reference; you'll sound more worldly ( and by worldly I mean "old" )

Ah, you mean someone with a slightly more developed humour than "oh, it's snappier, lol, rotfllaasdjskj"?

/ or you'll sound... stupid

Well, I really can't see how you can conclude that based on your premises.

 

[cameronjpu]

How old are you?

Dunno, but his caps lock key keeps breaking and fixing itself, and the apostrophe key appears to spontaneously push itself...

 

[aaarrrgggh]

They're great if you want something shiny.

Personally, I want a small notebook: Apple doesn't make any.

I'd also like to complement my Mac Pro with a midtower: Apple doesn't make any.

I felt the same way... so I bought an Acer Aspire One, hoping to install OSX on it. After a few weeks of using it, I long for Apple hardware again. The track pad is awful, the trackpad buttons are terrible, and there is only so much that OSX could do, even if working perfectly, could do to improve the picture.

I'll have to go into the Apple store soon and compare the One with the new Macbooks. I love the size of the One, and the battery life. The power adapter is a perfect size (if badly designed).

I miss the MagSafe, logical port arrangement, responsive keyboards, etc. Hopefully Apple saves me in January.

 

[domain]

I certainly hope Apple keeps pushing this line in court. They'll look a right bunch of chumps. The DMCA addition was desperation. It just doesn't apply.

This is beyond desperation.

If only Apple hadn't changed to making PC clones and trying to limit OS X to their machines, by EULA... talk about dumb.

And now they're going to pay. The EULA is going to be declared invalid in court, and everyone is going to get their Mac netbook ! It just won't be made by Apple... because they're too up themselves to serve their customers needs. (We make a netbook, it's called the MacBook Air... right...)

IANAL but it looks pretty straight forward to me, and has absolutely nothing to do with the EULA... they are invoking the DMCA in regards to "circumvention" of the "protection" included in OSX that prevents installation on non-Apple hardware. As this is exactly what Pystar has done, the only hope they have would be to argue some semantics of the OSX installation mechanism, which I believe will ultimately fail. Apple need not even mention EULA here to have a valid argument...

Outside of the DMCA claim however, it appears they have also added "distribution" to their claims... as Pystar is not only violating DMCA, but then distributing their circumvention of said software (for profit even) after-the-fact... this is a big big no-no.

The interesting thing here is the claim for John Doe 1 - 10... i'm not sure this is a big conspiracy as it were... I wonder if some of these unnamed parties might be involved with the OSx86 community.

 

[xVeinx]

A little quip: IBM is not involved. They have bigger fish to fry and their business model wouldn't permit them to take any significant advantage of this (Think servers and enterprise-level software. Not OS X's strong point ). They do have their fingers in the linux pie, but that is for entirely different reasons.

Microsoft has no involvement in this. They make poor decisions at many levels, but they aren't dumb. They would have nothing to gain at all from this, and the risk of getting hit back is far too great. If history tells them anything, it's that they have a giant "anti-trust giant with money" target on their back. EU anyone?

The only possible people involved would be OEMs like Dell, HP, or even others like Samsung, etc. Whoever it is, has these 2, maybe 3 qualities: cash to burn, belief that big money can be made in the future whether through selling computers with OS X and by getting Apple's marketshare, and, quite possibly, desperation. This is a gamble with low odds. Big risks. They're betting big on the river card, and they better hope they have a straight flush waiting...

 

[itcheroni]

NO, with no MAC sells, just how do you think Apple will fund MAC OS development. Sure, Microsoft would take a brief hit. And even though Apple is stronger than in the early 90's, what with the iPod/iPhone and all, they still need MAC sells.

Once Apple is weak, Microsoft will release their new "cloud" operating system and a variety of other Ace's in the hole, and they WILL slaughter Apple.

Apple MUST win. Oh, if I'm right, yall, I've had a great many predictions digitally signed, and mail certified, etc. I'm the modern day Demetrius lol.

That's how confident I am.

I truly hope it isn't Microsoft, as it will get ugly fast. But who else would have ulterior motives? And the dinero to back it up?

That is the most improbable prediction ever.

 

[alexbates]

I felt the same way... so I bought an Acer Aspire One, hoping to install OSX on it. After a few weeks of using it, I long for Apple hardware again. The track pad is awful, the trackpad buttons are terrible, and there is only so much that OSX could do, even if working perfectly, could do to improve the picture.

I'll have to go into the Apple store soon and compare the One with the new Macbooks. I love the size of the One, and the battery life. The power adapter is a perfect size (if badly designed).

I miss the MagSafe, logical port arrangement, responsive keyboards, etc. Hopefully Apple saves me in January.

I would not suggest trying to install OSX on one of those. I have heard that on some netbooks, to run OSX, you have to replace the WiFi card because it is not compatible. It is also a complicated process where you have to boot an .iso file from a disk.

 

[fleshman03]

Maybe its Woz?

 

[grue]

I felt the same way... so I bought an Acer Aspire One, hoping to install OSX on it. After a few weeks of using it, I long for Apple hardware again. The track pad is awful, the trackpad buttons are terrible, and there is only so much that OSX could do, even if working perfectly, could do to improve the picture.

I'll have to go into the Apple store soon and compare the One with the new Macbooks. I love the size of the One, and the battery life. The power adapter is a perfect size (if badly designed).

I miss the MagSafe, logical port arrangement, responsive keyboards, etc. Hopefully Apple saves me in January.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to buy Apple hardware. However, if Apple's going to continue pandering to idiots and trendtards, I'm not going to have any choice other than to go to a different vendor for my laptops. I'm not going to lug around the boat anchors they're offering now.

I'm not asking for anything crazy. I don't need hybrid SLI and quad core processors in a portable. I'm asking for a small machine that isn't horrifyingly compromised. I'll even settle for the godforsaken trash that is a glossy screen. Just give me something the size of a 12" PowerBook, no larger.

 

[jbernie]

Maybe it's just me but I don't see how much money Apple can get from, let's say, Dell. On what basis would Dell have to fork over a lot of money? Punitive damages? Judges don't just randomly award money because they see the defendant can afford it.

If Dell is assisting with funding the law suit there is nothing that can be done by Apple, however if they were to find the Dell was funding Psystar as a whole then Apple would then go on to sue Dell itself and cash in.

Apple has nothing to gain financially by suing Psystar, it is doing it out necessity to protect its market. However, on the other hand Apple has lots to loose in the case. If (a very BIG if) Apple were to lose the case outright it potentially loses the ability to sell the OSX on "premium" priced hardware, the moment Apple loses that it needs to survive on selling iPods, iPhones, OSX & software applications.

People might still buy Apple systems but the likes of Dell, Acer etc will be selling their much lower priced systems with OSX for the same price they sell their Windows systems for.

On one hand I would love to see OSX more available but on the other hand, I realize what the cost might end up being. Hopefully we end up somewhere in the middle, Apple expands its product line a bit and possibly doesnt quite charge the full premium.

Keep in mind Psystar's only product filled the biggest gap in Apple's product line, a reasonably priced midtower/desktop system that the owner can update/expand easily over the life of the machine. No doubt it selected this segment deliberately as Apple has zero offerings in this segment.

 

[itcheroni]

If Dell is assisting with funding the law suit there is nothing that can be done by Apple, however if they were to find the Dell was funding Psystar as a whole then Apple would then go on to sue Dell itself and cash in.

People might still buy Apple systems but the likes of Dell, Acer etc will be selling their much lower priced systems with OSX for the same price they sell their Windows systems for.

I still don't see how Apple could cash in. What are the damages?

And if Apple loses, they still set their own price on the licenses, don't they? If they lose the lawsuit, which they won't, they will adjust their business model accordingly.

 

[Digitalclips]

I agree with you and I'm a 25 year Apple customer. I have TONS of networking issues with Leopard in my home (iMac, NAS, Airport Extreme, and iDisk). And Finder is weak, very weak. I'd rather have NEXTSTEP's old Workspace Manager back any day! The Cocoa Finder...15 years ago. At least it didn't hold my entire machine hostage when something network-related happens.

Thirty years using Apple gear here

BTW, I have a reasonably complex network at home using FiOS 25/5 (with its .11g w-ifi turned off). I have a hodge podge of Macs including iMac DV, two MacBooks, iBook G4, 8 Core MacPro, Dual G5 and two G4 towers (used to play with OS X Server and FMPro mainly). ATV running round the clock now as it connects the Mac Pro's iTunes to main Hi Fi system and HD TV as well as being used for HD movie rentals from Apple. An Airport Extreme with networked Canon printer and Time Machine attached. Plus iPhones and use of 'family pack' Mobile Me syncing with Macs and PCs at remote office as well as locally with Vista on Parallels 4 and XP Pro on VMware 2 (both using Bonjour for printing to Canon on AE). I have even messed with port forwarding on the Verizon Router so my wife can host networked bridge games and I can play with QTSS. Everything works really well these days ... Really it just all works! No issues at all! I wonder what I am doing differently to you?

 

[jbernie]

IANAL but it looks pretty straight forward to me, and has absolutely nothing to do with the EULA... they are invoking the DMCA in regards to "circumvention" of the "protection" included in OSX that prevents installation on non-Apple hardware. As this is exactly what Pystar has done, the only hope they have would be to argue some semantics of the OSX installation mechanism, which I believe will ultimately fail. Apple need not even mention EULA here to have a valid argument...

The only "protection" to stop you installing OSX on a non Apple system is the words of the EULA itself.

If Apple was still using the powerpc processors then they wouldn't be having this issue, the hardware was not easy to obtain etc etc, now they are using what amounts to off the shelf parts that anyone can assemble words are pointless, you may as well leave the code to the safe on a sticky note next to the safe and tell the burglars to not look at the note.

 

[jbernie]

I still don't see how Apple could cash in. What are the damages?

And if Apple loses, they still set their own price on the licenses, don't they? If they lose the lawsuit, which they won't, they will adjust their business model accordingly.

Apple would go after Dell for intentional violation of the EULA with intent to profit from such acts knowing that selling pc systems loaded with OSX undercuts the prices offered by Apple and depriving Apple of that revenue.

 

[domain]

The only "protection" to stop you installing OSX on a non Apple system is the words of the EULA itself.

If Apple was still using the powerpc processors then they wouldn't be having this issue, the hardware was not easy to obtain etc etc, now they are using what amounts to off the shelf parts that anyone can assemble words are pointless, you may as well leave the code to the safe on a sticky note next to the safe and tell the burglars to not look at the note.

So you can go down to your local store, buy a off the shelf system, insert the OS 10.5 Retail DVD, and it will install without any further user intervention? I was not aware that the installation media was now accepting standard IBM/PC BIOS as a substitute for EFI.

 

[joeblough]

Except... if lawyers got involved, the first thing they would have done is see if they have a case BEFORE selling the first machine. When you examine the issues, it becomes obvious to all but the most deluded that there is no case here. And BTW.... the Judge agrees and has already thrown out Psystar's counterclaims.

And if lawyers were involved, they would have given up as soon as their counterclaims were thrown out. The fact that this is being pursued in defiance of good legal sense suggests that the people behind this are not lawyers and are not even listening to their own lawyers.

i think they truly thought they had a shot at the monopoly thing.

apple has very deep pockets and it would be a hell of a case to win in open court. again i have to reiterate that this is inducement enough for any lawyers to get involved in this.

they may have already given up, as i'm sure you read they still have a week or so to file amended claims.

 

[itcheroni]

Apple would go after Dell for intentional violation of the EULA with intent to profit from such acts knowing that selling pc systems loaded with OSX undercuts the prices offered by Apple and depriving Apple of that revenue.

And that would come out to a negligible amount.

 

[NT1440]

So you can go down to your local store, buy a off the shelf system, insert the OS 10.5 Retail DVD, and it will install without any further user intervention? I was not aware that the installation media was now accepting standard IBM/PC BIOS as a substitute for EFI.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

they like to think that just because theirs common hardware that they are 100% the same, dont ruin it

 

[truettzemac]

It was... Kind of funny when people misquote books.

My money is on the RAND Corporation in conjunction with the saucer people and reverse vampire... It make perfect sense.

BOOKS? Silly Goose, Alice in Wonderland is a disney movie...

 

[Digitalclips]

Who has the money to be behind this? I think it is that guy that runs the ads in the US that start "Hi, I'm the video professor, I am the one that gives away ..."

His ads outnumbered the presidential candidate's ads by far. His bloody ads are on every channel every five minutes ... they must cost him billions so he could afford it. He is either fronting for Microsoft or the Saudis. Actually now I say that ... perhaps he is fronting for MS?

 

[Tosser]

BOOKS? Silly Goose, Alice in Wonderland is a disney movie...

True, but that movie is based on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice's_Adventures_in_Wonderland

(1865).

 

[pdjudd]

Lastly, like all software EULAs, there's no way to agree to Apple's EULA before you buy the software, because you're only exposed to the EULA once you purchase it.

False. All of Apples Licensing agreements are readilly available on their website. Here is one for Leopard(Note PDF attachment) - plain old english on page one. And I found that out in 10 seconds of google search - it was the first link.

I got that without purchasing anything.