Considering his past affiliations, Trump puts pragmatism above political ideology.
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Apple Supplier Foxconn Confirms Plans to Build TV Display Factory in Wisconsin
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Yep and Obama did the same thing with how deportations were accounted for. The media went on and on about the great numbers of people that Obama was deporting but failed to mention his administration changed the definition of a deportation to include individuals turned away at the border.
A paltry $600 million for construction wasn't enough, it was stalled. Then corruption ended it.
Again, I certainly wouldn't be one who benefits from the suggestion, but doesn't it seem that it's a bit regressive to try to increase the number of manufacturing jobs when technology is pushing them into obsolescence?
Companies will ultimately do whatever is in the best interest of their bottom line. No matter what wage is paid, it's cheaper to have a fully automated production line, with perhaps a few people to keep it running. The days of three eight hour shifts a day, five or six days a week are probably fading away. Technology has made sure of that. The best defence against this ongoing trend is to educate and retrain people.
As an example from a non-manufacturing field, both radiology and cellular pathology can now be done faster and better by computers. We may be seeing the end of some specialties in medicine - should we insist that the jobs remain, even though it costs society more (both dollars and missed diagnoses)? Or should we prepare for this eventuality by re-education of the current workers, and by redirecting future ones towards other types of jobs?
And none of this even begins to account for the impact that 3D printing could have, once the technology begins to mature. There are already reports of 3D printed homes as well as the smaller, more intricate items. In the future, manufacturing may no longer occur in big factories, but instead in storefronts and in our homes. This may be 10, 30, or 30 years away still, but shouldn't we be preparing ourselves for that possibility?
Back to my point, bringing the money back to the US won't increase manufacturing (not much, anyhow). But it will put more money into the economy, assuming that the government doesn't waste it, but rather uses it for infrastructure and education. This in turn will create jobs for some, and opportunities to retrain for others.
Perhaps it could even be used to create a guaranteed basic income. There have been suggestions that would free up people to try things they couldn't otherwise afford, like starting a small business (and who knows - maybe one of those becomes the next Amazon, Apple, Google, etc). If nothing else, it would eliminate huge segments of government (no more need to administer all the different programs - just send one check to everyone, and it's done...) and this could help eliminate the deficit.
TL;DR
We (in all the developed countries) should be focusing preparing people for the massive change in the economy that is still coming. Instead of spending the money on rebuilding the old economic model, we need to prepare people for the next one.
Oh, and I trust the Foxconn CEO's statement about as far as I could throw a truck.
No matter who wants to take credit for this (and should it really matter?), the only thing that matters is that people are given a chance to make their lives better. We have all seen these kinds of promises lots of times before. When the shovels hit the dirt, then it's reasonable to start celebrating; until then, cautious optimism is safer.
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It's a few things. Harder to get labor here because the U.S. makes it way more expensive than China for various reasons. Also harder to get it because people here don't want to work in factories.
Not the same extent they line up in China begging to work for Foxconn wrapped around the block and then some, certainly, but the jobs will get filled no doubt At the same time
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...y-factory-in-wisconsin.2058620/#post-24837697
I'm becoming increasingly worried how many students are studying purely humanities. And how most of them are >10th generation American, while immigrants and first-generation are all going into STEM. That's a problem because I imagine what people in other countries are doing right now vs what most Americans seem to be doing, and I wonder if the U.S. is going to remain a world leader at this rate. It's not too bad because as long as we keep having immigrants, we'll keep taking the best talent from around the world, but some people are trying to change that.
It's screwed up from the start. Schools focus primarily on outdated skills and teach kids to be emotionally weak. In grade school and high school, it was totally geared for me to become an English major. I saw it and voiced my disapproval, but teachers just said that I wasn't well-rounded or something. Even in college, I got forced to take general-ed classes in the politics of music and whatever, while people who actually majored in those things of course weren't required to take math or CS or physics courses. After all this conditioning, a kid from a village in India can come and take the job instead, and rightfully so. Meanwhile, American kids who have it comparatively easy are (increasingly over the past 4 years) ending up in mental health meetings to talk about their feelings.
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Yeah, they'll get filled by Foxconn having to pay more than they do in China. There's a higher supply of labor there, and there's a market equilibrium value for it.
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https://seekingalpha.com/article/4035835-obama-jobs-record-really-score-presidents-fair
"As Barack Obama prepares to leave office, there has been a lot of talk about his record of job creation. The raw numbers look pretty good: Payroll jobs increased by some 11 million from the quarter before Obama's inauguration to his last full quarter in office. That is the third best among the 12 presidents since World War II, surpassed only by 16 million jobs added under Reagan and 23 million under Clinton."
And that was coming from the worst recession since the Great Depression, with the worlds largest bailout and in the middle of fighting 2 wars that he never started.
The guy did miracles considering. But hey... don't let the facts get in the way of a good story right?
it's amazing to have Foxconn investing 10 billions and creating thousands of American jobs !!!!
still everyone on the left in this forum is trying to make this wonderful news appear as a bad thing
just like the propaganda communist media does every day
Beautiful news !!!!!! thank god !!!
thank you president Trump and for making this happen !!!!
still everyone on the left in this forum is trying to make this wonderful news appear as a bad thing
just like the propaganda communist media does every day
Beautiful news !!!!!! thank god !!!
thank you president Trump and for making this happen !!!!
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1. there are no LCD maker in Wisconsin so it's not unfair to anyone
2. tax subsidies are a discount on the billions that Foxconn will have to pay, not a fee that taxpayer will have to pay. Sales tax and all the people working there will generate billions in earned taxes for the US
3. stop being anti-American
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so you don't agree with a $10 billion investment because Foxconn will get a $3b discount in taxes ?
who cares ? thousands of jobs, apartments, houses, supermarkets for years to come will be busy and pay regular taxes !!!!
stop being anti-American
Wait, what's the source on this? $3bn subsidy or $3bn off their taxes? Cause if it's the latter, I kinda care, but it's still a net gain for the U.S.
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I don't think he did much. He entered office during the recession, so there was a lot to improve by. Also, the latest tech explosion started around 2008. I think the man was decent in many ways but nothing anywhere near miraculous.
"He entered office during the recession, so there was a lot to improve by."
I just deal with the facts. When put against other presidents in terms of job creation and the position he was coming into he is up there with the best of them. The data proves that. There's no way around that one.
Now how it "feels" maybe different depending on where you're sitting and how you've been programmed. Obama didnt spend 8yrs having a go at Bush's legacy which was appalling. Whereas Trump has dedicated his life to making sure everything that has Obama's name on it is trashed (even his birth certificate!).
Personally I think he is a victim of his own campaign. I think people expected miracles in every area of the country with Obama appearing completely different to the type of people that normally are in charge (different race, background etc..). And I feel people are let down that he was more normal than different. He is not a radical, though his campaign message looked like he was. However, as you say he was "decent", decent man. And I think America needed a decent man to run the country at that time. And he did that well.
Now we know what it's like to have a decent man, and one who is by his own admission, "thoroughly indecent". In 3 yrs time we will see which style the country prefers.
This is a Pyrrhic victory for Trump, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't show forward looking, progressive business or government strategies; It shows that the incumbent government wants to ignore the pressing issues of the foremost industries by strengthening industries whose times have passed. They are treating the symptoms, not the cause.
Apart from 3000-13000 low-paid jobs I ask you, what good does it do? Does it trigger any sustainable development? Does it increase production quality?
Sure thing, it means not exploiting sub-minimum wage workers in China. That might be the only upside to it.
I think these moves seem to be as much about PR as about addressing manufacturing and supply chains in the USA. Lots of companies have opened factories in the USA in the past, and during the past two presidencies. Trump makes this out to be more than it really is.
There is a long way to go before entire products like iPhone etc are made entirely in the USA or other similar countries. It may be the case that this never happens, manufacturing may just move to the next best place after China, like Africa.
What is needed is a long term industrial/economic strategy that takes into account the changing world that includes such issues as the role of AI and automation by robots. New jobs will be created as others disappear forever. The government and leading companies have to work on this together to bring positive outcomes.
There is a long way to go before entire products like iPhone etc are made entirely in the USA or other similar countries. It may be the case that this never happens, manufacturing may just move to the next best place after China, like Africa.
What is needed is a long term industrial/economic strategy that takes into account the changing world that includes such issues as the role of AI and automation by robots. New jobs will be created as others disappear forever. The government and leading companies have to work on this together to bring positive outcomes.
It's all over http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-26/foxconn-get-230000-incentives-every-wisconsin-job-created
What subsidies? The "incentive package" contemplated as part of the Foxconn deal will total $3 billion over 15 years, including $1.5 billion in state income tax credits for job creation; up to $1.35 billion in state income tax credits for capital investment and up to $150 million for the sales and use tax exemption. In other words, just over $230,000 for each new job that Foxconn may (or may not) create
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_27455fff-a812-5cb8-8e4f-42064c944c82.html
State lawmakers will need to approve the state incentive package for Foxconn as part of the deal. A special legislative session will be called to pass the package, Walker’s office said, which will total $3 billion over 15 years.
The incentives include $1.5 billion in state income tax credits for job creation, up to $1.35 billion in state income tax credits for capital investment and up to $150 million for the sales and use tax exemption.
A contract between the state and Foxconn will include clawback provisions requiring the company to pay back the tax credits if “jobs and investment are not kept in Wisconsin,” according to Walker’s office.
The $3 billion figure does not include local government incentives. Walker’s office said tax incremental financing is another incentive expected to be part of the project.
This is a terrible amount of corporate wellfare for 13,000 jobs. Absolutely an awful waste of taxpayer money. I'd rather they spend $3bn on tax credits/incentives for clean energy like Solar/Wind.
[doublepost=1501153789][/doublepost]I'll say this too, if it takes this level of corporate welfare for every 3,000 permanent jobs for manufacturing then America is 100% screwed.
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I doubt these jobs (the factory ones after construction) will pay much above minimum wage. It's not exactly like Foxconn really gives a crap. These are definitely 100% not going to be $15-20 manufacturing jobs that used to exist.
Tim Cook has stated that the US doesn't have enough skilled workers to do these jobs – which is code for "there aren't enough people in America willing to do tough work for a low wage.
And he's right... which is why we have such a huge immigration problem with Mexican workers. They'll do the work. They'll show up every day, work hard and not complain. They won't ask for a raise after two weeks. They won't expect to be promoted to senior management after six months. They won't ask for anything other than a paycheck and some occasional time off.
1) No Americans will want to work for the low pay
2) No Americans will want to pay the prices for the screens due to inflated costs
3) Apple will get a MASSIVE tax breaks for this PR move and will remove factory as soon as they can
4) Lack of skilled workers will result in all high pay jobs going to imported Foxconn engineers
Sorry but the only way for 'made in America' to compete these days is to artificially cripple foreign made lines and ask for a premium for US made with a higher spec. For examples see Fender guitars, they hold back and cripple all non-US models despite Indonesian factories being much better quality on other brands. It's PR pure and simple and Don the Dumbass will fall for it hook line and sinker.
2) No Americans will want to pay the prices for the screens due to inflated costs
3) Apple will get a MASSIVE tax breaks for this PR move and will remove factory as soon as they can
4) Lack of skilled workers will result in all high pay jobs going to imported Foxconn engineers
Sorry but the only way for 'made in America' to compete these days is to artificially cripple foreign made lines and ask for a premium for US made with a higher spec. For examples see Fender guitars, they hold back and cripple all non-US models despite Indonesian factories being much better quality on other brands. It's PR pure and simple and Don the Dumbass will fall for it hook line and sinker.
Exactly, and it's absolutely stupid to pursue such jobs, let China do what China does best and get to work on real world changing initiatives like renewables…
Yeah I really don't get the excitement for this, no one is wanting to do manual jobs like this when they can get paid more working in service industry etc. Factories are repressive horrible places that should be inhabited by robots only.
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Political Pragmatism sounds like confirmation bias to mean.
We are. But there is a problem in that people want what they feel they "deserve" without proving themselves worthy of simpler, then greater tasks. Education doesn't equal instant success. Showing oneself to be trustworthy and hard-working is what will make one successful. Providing you have chosen a reputable company to intern or start with, show me someone who will work "Long hours, stress on the body and crappy pay" and I'll show you someone who will climb the corporate ladder.
Take some time and look into the Tax Deal made to bring this in. Ask Walker if he could work a similar deal out for the residents of Wisconsin.
