Both LCD and OLED? That's quite strange if you ask me. Not like Apple to give choices...
Much like 99% of the other tablet rumors, this one is false.
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Apple Tablet Reportedly Causing Shortage of 10.1-Inch LCD and OLED Screens
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Much like 99% of the other tablet rumors, this one is false.
MP3 players were pretty dime-a-dozen when the iPod came out.
Smartphones were pretty plentiful when the iPhone came out.
Apple doesn't seem to fear "saturated markets", as long as they have a formula for turning things inside-out/upside down. Which fits with the party line of "we haven't figured out how to do it in a way that doesn't suck". That's kind of the same thing as "we haven't yet figured out how to do it in a way that doesn't make the existing set of products look completely pointless."
I don't agree.
Pocketables are too small for some tasks. Laptops are too big. Frankly, I don't need my "mobile computer" to be as big as a laptop. I can do fine with a smaller CPU/Memory/Storage/Screen footprint than the conventional laptop market provides. My Dell Mini 9 (with Ubuntu, not Windows -- blech) is really pretty close to ideal for my mobile computing needs. For various reasons, I just need it to have a touch screen and no keyboard. It would be ideal if it was a tablet, and ran Mac OS X (legally).
But, having used a pocketable device in a similar category to the iPod Touch (Nokia N800 and N810), I found that the screen (4.1" 800x480) was really too small for some tasks (and that's a bigger screen than the iPod Touch). Taking notes in meetings was obnoxious, for example. There just wasn't a comfortable balance between font size and displaying enough information to keep a context. Trying to build a useful outline on the tiny screen was ... annoying. And that doesn't even begin to mention the annoyances of trying to keep up with a meeting while using a thumb keyboard (their support for Bluetooth keyboards was a major improvement, though).
In short, the iPhone/iPod Touch are inadequate for the mid-range (too small), and the Mac Book (Pro or not) is also inadequate (too big, too expensive, overkill for the use cases). So, no, if what you want is a mid-range device, just designed for media playing, web browsing, note taking, etc. and not full blown heavy CPU/RAM/Storage/Screen desktop apps, then ... no, you can't easily just step down to an Pocketable nor step up to a Notebook. Neither of those product categories scratch the itch for mid-range devices.
Both LCD and OLED? That's quite strange if you ask me. Not like Apple to give choices...
Maybe Apple ordered both to :
A. Keep rumors guessing
B. Keep competitors from ordering the same thing to duplicate the device.
C. Plans on nixing the order for the screen it doesn't use.
Both LCD and OLED? That's quite strange if you ask me. Not like Apple to give choices...
Sure it is, just pay more for the better option.
Time for an update.
It is all about engineering trade offs. On iPhone you have a screen that is lower resolution than many cell phones but those larger pixels lead to a brighter image. That simply due to a bigger valve for the light to flow through. Now OLEDs are a different tech but that doesn't keep the engineers from optimizing them for specific performance requirements.
Take that attitude and we would never have gotten to the state we are with LCDs. LCD is a very generic term describing tens (100's) of technologies leading to a screen. Like wise we are seeing rapid expansion in OLED tech. Does this mean there is a sunlight suitable version for a tablet?
I really don't know, but I also know it doesn't make any difference. Why? Because for some users it is a non issue and they would by far prefer the positive qualities of an OLED display. Especially when viewed against what is required to backlight a high performance LCD screen.
Think about it a moment with respect to some of the high perfromance LCD/LED TVs out there. Compress everything down to tablet size with the corresponding pixel sizes and tell me just how much power it is going to take to make that high resolution LCD screen sunlight readable. That is if Apple can even do it with conventional tech.
Notable in this context is the clamor for a PixelQI screen, which will interesting , also has problems. The screen does however reflect the reality that there are ALWAYS trade offs. You can't get around this.
In any event I will repeat, don't dismiss until you understand what is being offered. Further don't think that your needs for an outdoor usable ten inch tablet are the same as everybody elses. Because frankly I think most people would be better off with a 7" sized device for outdoor use.
Dave
Then go read Photonics/Spectra or the more focused journals.
Some screens do. However so do LCDs as they have to turn up the backlight to work in bright ambient light. OLEDs often do better than average for power draw.
Yep this was certainly true, but a lot of effort has been put into fixing that. Today an OLED will often be viable long beyound the life if the device.
I gave to call BS on this one. First; have you used the iPhone in direct sunlight? Because it washes out pretty bad and IPhone is a lot better than most cell phone LCDs that can't be seen at all in sun light. Second; you are assuming that all OLEDs behave and are implemented in the same way. This isn't the case as OLEDs can be very bright in deed.
It is all about engineering trade offs. On iPhone you have a screen that is lower resolution than many cell phones but those larger pixels lead to a brighter image. That simply due to a bigger valve for the light to flow through. Now OLEDs are a different tech but that doesn't keep the engineers from optimizing them for specific performance requirements.
Take that attitude and we would never have gotten to the state we are with LCDs. LCD is a very generic term describing tens (100's) of technologies leading to a screen. Like wise we are seeing rapid expansion in OLED tech. Does this mean there is a sunlight suitable version for a tablet?
I really don't know, but I also know it doesn't make any difference. Why? Because for some users it is a non issue and they would by far prefer the positive qualities of an OLED display. Especially when viewed against what is required to backlight a high performance LCD screen.
Think about it a moment with respect to some of the high perfromance LCD/LED TVs out there. Compress everything down to tablet size with the corresponding pixel sizes and tell me just how much power it is going to take to make that high resolution LCD screen sunlight readable. That is if Apple can even do it with conventional tech.
Notable in this context is the clamor for a PixelQI screen, which will interesting , also has problems. The screen does however reflect the reality that there are ALWAYS trade offs. You can't get around this.
In any event I will repeat, don't dismiss until you understand what is being offered. Further don't think that your needs for an outdoor usable ten inch tablet are the same as everybody elses. Because frankly I think most people would be better off with a 7" sized device for outdoor use.
Dave
Now this is what I wanted to talk about.
My greatest concerns are still Super iPod Touch syndrome (obvious) and a product of the App Store (AppleTV).
Good luck on finding that middle ground.
OLED screen? hmm I would be glad to pay a premium for that. Here's what we know so far as rumors.
- 10" or 7" screen LCD or OLED or both.
- A "hybrid" OS, with a "sexy, intuitive" UI
- Network capabilities
- iSight, with other I/O
- New multi-touch gestures
- A beautiful new Tablet that will require us to "THINK DIFFERENT"
- Pricing between $599 to $999.
It sounds like Steve/Apple are going to get it just right. The only thing that will seal the deal, is the 2 week media notice if an event will happen by the rumored times, tomorrow would be the last day for Apple to "technically" announce it.
iDisk
*High pitch giggles like an excited chimpmunk on drugs*
From what I've read and understand OLEDs do better than average for power draw compared to an LCD in video applications (and also give truer blacks). In mobile or computer interface applications where much of the screen is typically active or bright there is usually a power disadvantage. Darker user interfaces could be developed to counter this, but lighter backgrounds with dark text are less stressful on the eyes so I don't see this happening in the mainstream. LEDs are more efficient in converting energy to light than an OLED screen, so in any situation where most of the screen is 'lit' an LED-LCD will have an advantage.
I use my iPhone outdoors ALL the time. I've had one for 3 years and have never had a hard time reading it in sunlight - it always seems bright and clear. (My matte finish MBP is a different story...) You are right that OLEDs can be implemented to be very bright, but like I said, doing this requires more power than an equivalently bright LED backlit screen.
I'm sure they will continue evolving, I'm not arguing that. I just don't think they are ready for mobile devices yet due to their current drawbacks. That's why I don't see Apple using them just yet.
Already have. Like I've said many times, the right screen size is 9" or 10". The right form-factor is tablet (with KVM ports) or convertible-tablet (KVM ports would still be good). The right OS is Android, Ubuntu (with a screen rotation bug fixed), Maemo (with screen rotation added), or Mac OS X. iPhone OS X might technically work, but I'm politically opposed to it (due to the draconian nature of the app store, and not allowing 3rd party app stores).
And, no matter what Apple does (or doesn't) do in this device space, I'll be getting what I want in the near future. There's the Notion Ink Adam, the EnTourage eDGe, and HP's Android tablet all coming out soon.
I'm looking at my MSI wind netbook with its 10" screen and thinking it's a wee bit big for use on the go, so I'm inclined to say 9" would be perfect. However, the size of the bezel could change perceptions (I could never understand why the MBA kept the same bezel as the MacBook).
Ubuntu Netbook Remix is a damn fine OS - shame the MSI Wind is one of the netbooks that has issues with it for some unknown reason. Maemo felt a bit kiddie for me. OSX also works in netbooks, cough... cough...
I've been looking at smartphones to replace my N95, but I get the feeling my cash may well be diverted to one of these tablets instead.
Both LCD and OLED? That's quite strange if you ask me. Not like Apple to give choices...
Shoot, it's easy to explain: Apple is going to use BOTH. They'll put an LCD on one side of the tablet, and the OLED on the other.
That way, you can surf the web with whichever one you like, while your wife, kids or mother get to see a stock smiling image of you from the other side of the device.
As they said, we'll be surprised with how we interact with it
Shoot, it's easy to explain: Apple is going to use BOTH. They'll put an LCD on one side of the tablet, and the OLED on the other.
That way, you can surf the web with whichever one you like, while your wife, kids or mother get to see a stock smiling image of you from the other side of the device.
As they said, we'll be surprised with how we interact with it
Except in direct sunlight
I find my Dell Mini 9 to be _barely_ too small
And the keyboard is definitely more cramped (with "not full size keys") than, say, the HP 10" netbooks, which are/were designed specifically to give you full size keys on your keyboard.Ubuntu has a problem though. Screen rotation doesn't REALLY work. Sure, the screen display rotates. But the touch coordinates don't. So, when you touch something, the coordinates registered aren't in sync with the image, and that gets confusing and isn't really usable. I verified that that's STILL a problem on 9.04, but I haven't tried 9.10 yet. (I have 9.04 NBR installed on my Samsung Q1 Ultra)
IMO, it's the best integrated UI of any form of _conventional_ unix/linux that I've used. (conventional meaning "X GUI and gnu binutils shell UI", as opposed to Android which doesn't natively give you either of those) Not as good at Unix GUI integration as Nextstep nor OS X ... but better than every other form of unix/linux (including Ubuntu). Ubuntu is more flexible, but not well integrated. Lots of its components just don't work as well together as Maemo's.
I only include legal and/or vendor-supported options for the devices I depend upon. I am technically able to do self-support and all of that (I'm a unix sysadmin, after all), but I don't want to be unable to do my job for hours or days because I'm having to track down and re-build drivers and such ... because my device had a bad upgrade (bricked from jailbreaking, drivers weren't forward-ported, etc.).
I agree, especially with the netbook boom of the past year, who would find this shocking?
There is a boom of proposed future releases of unspecified details. There is a mini-boom of released units, but there is not a boom in sales.
Rocketman
You're right on the money with this IMO. What I expect is that the tablet will be a 'better' way to consume the content of the iTunes store (app store, etc.) It's not going to be a giant iPhone, or a netbook, or a smartbook, or a Kindle killer. It will be designed to integrate into the Apple 'ecosystem' and focused on iTunes content and apps.
I'm just curious - has anyone ever bought a second netbook? I know three people who got in on the boom, and none of them is happy. My own freakin' father bought one ("the price was right") then flew out to california from new york to see me, and didn't even bring it ("it's too small and I can't see the screen.") I'm just trying to figure out who actually would prefer these things to a tablet (assuming software capability was more or less equivalent).
Sort of. I mean, I'm sort of saying that, but I'm also saying that it will be Apple's answer to those devices (netbook/smartbook, kindle/e-reader, non-pocketable media players). But in an Apple-ish way, that works into the iTunes eco-system.
So, it wont be a netbook/smartbook, and it wont be an e-reader ... but it will have that functionality, converging them with the iTunes eco-system, and trying to make those individual things obsolete (and also obsoleting mid-size media players (archos, kindle, and also the "dedicated DVD player" devices that are in the "mid-range" size)). It's intent, in my guestimation, is to attack those markets in the exact same way that the iPhone attacked the smartphone market, and the iPod Touch attacked the "pocketable non-phone" market.
If it exists.
The functionality of an iPhone is amazing. My interest in the slate is a larger screen iPhone. As I have said my preference is for 7" not 10", but for the users who want a modern "luggable", or something with specific business purpose, the larger screen offsets that lack of complete and total portability a phone has. But it is always "ready to use" unlike a desktop or laptop which has to be opened, walked to, or whatever.
Apple is going to offer compelling reasons well beyond mere hardware specs to buy one of these. It will have gee-wiz features, but it will also have a way to use cloud computing (client-server) that is really seamless and useful for the first time.
It may not sell as many units as iPhone, but for a 50-70% price premium, we would not expect that either. It will be more useful than any other netbook, and let's at least be clear that any of them have been mobile iTunes workstations yet have not "popped".
I look at this device in the same way as a user of a Mac-Mini or iMac does. They wish for a price competitive Mac-Midi that is expandable.
This device will be expandable. Not in terms of hardware, but in software, communication, services, and features. A new paradigm to be sure, but one that actually addresses the issues of the Midi wannabees.
Expandability. WIRELESSLY. Be very careful what you wish for, Steevie will exceed your expectations.
Rocketman
Double battery BTO option, please.
Apple is going to offer compelling reasons well beyond mere hardware specs to buy one of these. It will have gee-wiz features, but it will also have a way to use cloud computing (client-server) that is really seamless and useful for the first time.
It may not sell as many units as iPhone, but for a 50-70% price premium, we would not expect that either. It will be more useful than any other netbook, and let's at least be clear that any of them have been mobile iTunes workstations yet have not "popped".
I look at this device in the same way as a user of a Mac-Mini or iMac does. They wish for a price competitive Mac-Midi that is expandable.
This device will be expandable. Not in terms of hardware, but in software, communication, services, and features. A new paradigm to be sure, but one that actually addresses the issues of the Midi wannabees.
Expandability. WIRELESSLY. Be very careful what you wish for, Steevie will exceed your expectations.
Rocketman
Double battery BTO option, please.
I wouldn't just jump on a smaller OLED
If you put me to choose between a 7" OLED and a 10" LCD i wouldn't just jump on the OLED, even if i absolutely love OLED screens it would be 3" less which makes a difference on a tablet
And also, i bet that the 7" OLED costs more than twice the 10" LCD, proly as much as a 32" LCD
So i don't know, the best would be a 10" OLED but that wouldn't fit my budget at all, but it would sound very logical that they give a 7" LCD (low end) and the high end 10" OLED, which would cost 2,000$
If you put me to choose between a 7" OLED and a 10" LCD i wouldn't just jump on the OLED, even if i absolutely love OLED screens it would be 3" less which makes a difference on a tablet
And also, i bet that the 7" OLED costs more than twice the 10" LCD, proly as much as a 32" LCD
So i don't know, the best would be a 10" OLED but that wouldn't fit my budget at all, but it would sound very logical that they give a 7" LCD (low end) and the high end 10" OLED, which would cost 2,000$