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California blew it. They were doing really well up until early Autumn. Thanksgiving takes a lot of blame, but I think they got too lax in restrictions and didn't respond quickly enough. Monitoring available ICU beds is a lagging indicator.

It's a totally different situation in the Dakotas, mind you. I get the sense that California let their guard down while the Dakotas strapped themselves to the mast and sailed straight for the storm.

It's all the more terrible now that the vaccine is starting to enter circulation. While there was an argument in the past that the best strategy might have been to manage the spread rather than prevent it, now it's clear that every death that could have been delayed a few months could have been prevented.
Americans, in general, have almost no discipline. Californians are worse.

The San Joaquin Valley, where I live, is one of the three worst areas in the state. Too many people think that a mask isn't necessary, even in close quarters, especially when they're sick.
 
Funny thing about the truth ... truth doesn't change. Every facet of the Wuhan Flu has gone through a series of illogical changes. If lockdowns work, if masks work; then why is there a spike? Why is the annual rate of influenza, which we have records of dating more than 50 years, nearly zero? Why has the CDC said that ~6% of the reported Covid Deaths are people who died FROM COVID, rather than had COVID as a contributing factor? If you have cancer, heart disease, pulmonary failure, emphysema, uncontrolled diabetes - COVID isn't going to help.

But, as the CDC states that the average life expectancy in the US is 78.6 years, and has remained unchanged for the past several years; and the average death from COVID is over 80 years of age (even with Comorbidites, as listed previously) - why are we locking down?

Logically, Texas, South Dakota and Florida should be leading the USA for Covid deaths and infections - they aren't. Sweden never did lock down, they should all be dead - they aren't.

Barnum is quoted as "You can fool some of the people some of the time", obviously never was aquatinted with pushing a non-existent pandemic. "15 weeks to Flatten the Curve; now in month 9"
It’s shocking how people buy into such stupidity as what you were quoting. Look at the death above average. Look at the hospitals, which are full. Basic logic dictates that you know nothing. You are an atrocity and an abomination and an offense to all the people I know who have died. Go crawl under a rock with your fringe freak views.
 
Yeah, I use to be brainwashed like so many others and I was living in fear over COVID statistic numbers. I then had my brain cleansed by a few of my friends who actually work in a couple of our local hospitals here in the Orlando area. All of my hospital worker friends (of which three work in the ER department at Orlando Regional Medical Center) have told me the same thing. The fear from the media when it comes to COVID deaths are highly exaggerated beyond belief. They told me they have had some COVID cases in their hospitals but the actual death cases are nowhere near as high as what the media wants us to believe.

It took me a while to believe them so I did some research on my own. There are several videos on YouTube of where people have been shooting actual outside footage of the ER departments in NYC and the videos show them to be almost a ghost town. In other words, once again, things have been blown way out of proportion. I finally came out of my fear shell and I decided to start living again. I use common sense and I wear my face mask in public and of course I wash my hands quite often as well.

Fear is a very powerful tool that the soon to be dictators of this country will be gaining more and more power as time moves on. But I will tend to believe my friends that actually work in the front lines and not garbage media like CNN and many others that want to drive people to the point to where they're afraid of their own shadows. So, that being that. I say go ahead and live in fear if you must. I'm going to live my life as I normally would with a few but minor inconveniences like wearing a face mask in public and so on. But to keep my butt locked up in my own house will never happen. I'll take my own life before I allow any wanna-be dictator politician to direct how my life is lived.

Overcame fear of a global pandemic after watching some random YouTube videos to educate yourself. Sweet. Just the level of sophistication the Americans are famous for in the rest of the world.
 
Ah yes... "I did my own research" is the phrase that has probably caused the most damage to this country in the last 25 years, and a good argument why the internet shouldn't exists.
Sure, the media is the problem. The evil media! Of course!
I love how people are acting like we're living under the thumb of a tyrannical government when in reality we've never really had a real "lockdown." If we'd have a true, nationwide lockdown, we'd have been out of the worst of it MONTHS ago. Instead we half-ass it so people can eat in restaurants and pretend that everything is normal so we can watch football and try to act like everything might be OK without any real sacrifice. "Minor inconvenience? Sure!" Any other measure that requires staying inside for two weeks! "I'd rather kill myself!"

Well said. The entire tyranny bla bla that’s always imposed when science approaches an outdated world view, just pathetic.
 
There have also been several videos on YouTube that show professional groups of physicians proving that most of the face masks people are wearing do NOTHING to prevent the spread of COVID. This includes the morons who wear those stupid face coverings that cover their entire necks. You know, the ones that are as thin as pantyhose? Yeah, those.... But yet the media wants us to believe we need to wear masks if we need to go out in public. Whatever.... Like I said earlier, I wear N95 masks because I do it out of respect for all my local businesses that require masks upon entering their establishments. But I certainly don't believe that wearing a mask is going to shield me from getting COVID if I happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whatever happens happens but I'm not going to live in fear no longer.

Do what you must and continue to be part of the fear spreading if it makes you feel better.

Oh more of that professional YouTube journalism. Please provide links. This shall be entertaining.
 
Ooooh the evil virus. Good thing the pharma corps and govts are rolling out the global menus of vaccine concoctions with 10% efficacy. Not sure what we'd do without them. I'm lining up right now while posting on my phone because I'm such an eager beaver.

And Bill Gates is a satanist. Let’s not forget that.
 
I don't go by advertised numbers but I will for argumentative sake. Google "covid death rate in California" and "covid death rate in Florida" and see which state has higher death rates. One state is ruled by power-hungry nazi politicians and the other state is pretty much back to normal (all things considered).

So in this case if we're going by advertised numbers, seems like FL is doing something right while CA is definitely doing something wrong. One state has major lockdowns in place while the other is almost back to normal.

Maybe make a point by backing up your argument rather than assuming people find the information you assume they will Google.

“Looks up on Google why Elvis is with the aliens. “


But as someone who fails to know what a Nazi is, I guess you will fail there too.
 
You’re still refusing to tell us what the correct numbers are.
What? Florida has twice the death rate as California.
Numbers only mean as much as the details behind them. Watch, I’ll do it too.

Only a rolling 7 day basis, California has 99 cases per 100k. Florida has 48/100k. Your most recent steps aren’t working.

For deaths since the start, NYC has a death rate of 293/100k...NJ 202. Florida is 95...WITH the oldest population.

But I’m not silly. Geography matters. Population density matters. Age matters. There are many factors thst make comparisons flawed. Most people with cases won’t die...if they do, they are probably older folks...which Florida has a lot. California doesn’t get credit for a lower death rate with a younger population. That’s not Apples to Apples.

Florida has over 21% of its population over 65...Covid danger age. California is the 4th YOUNGEST state with only 14% over 65. This is huge. This impacts old people the most and Florida is on average, 5 years older than California. That could explain part of the discrepancy.

You also need to look at recent data, not the entire history since February to understand what’s working today. The virus hit states at different times and the readiness has improved. Treatmeant has improved. The oldest, sickest people died earlier on. Thone are factors as well. That’s why California’s recent case rate is twice Florida’s.

You also need to understand the total cost of lockdown, all the way through. How are the families in California doing who have been decimated by their business closing? Show me those numbers.
 
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Never thought that I'd see so many giving baghdad bob a run for his money here in the USA. In a day and age when one can download CDC spreadsheets on the internet for themselves... I'm offended and saddened by the number of people I know who willfully hide from reality.

I get it... I would love to pretend all day to be on the USS Enterprise E... heck, I'd settle for an Excelsior or Miranda class vessel if I didn't have a choice... but ... alas, I think we've got a long way to go before Star Trek is ever a possibility of being our future.

Stay safe everyone. Happy holiday!
Indeed. Happy Holidays. Stay safe and hopefully next year's holidays are back to normal!

I'm glad Apple is putting the safety of their workers first, not betting on how many will catch the virus and laughing about it https://www.nydailynews.com/news/na...0201217-xpmdqrisrzejfmjgtwhl2rtqia-story.html.
 
There have also been several videos on YouTube that show professional groups of physicians proving that most of the face masks people are wearing do NOTHING to prevent the spread of COVID. This includes the morons who wear those stupid face coverings that cover their entire necks. You know, the ones that are as thin as pantyhose? Yeah, those.... But yet the media wants us to believe we need to wear masks if we need to go out in public. Whatever.... Like I said earlier, I wear N95 masks because I do it out of respect for all my local businesses that require masks upon entering their establishments. But I certainly don't believe that wearing a mask is going to shield me from getting COVID if I happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whatever happens happens but I'm not going to live in fear no longer.

Do what you must and continue to be part of the fear spreading if it makes you feel better.
Tell that to the 139 clients exposed to a couple hairdressers sick with COVID-19, but the clients didn’t get sick — not even one — likely because everybody wore a face covering. It’s either the masks or some incredible luck (or a little of both).

The U.S. would be in far better shape right now, both with respect to the virus and economically, if everyone who can wear a mask wore one (consistently and correctly). That doesn’t mean there’d be zero cases, but the spread would be manageable, unlike right now. Hotspots would be neighborhoods and cities rather than entire states and groups of states.

ETA: Apparently I’m “living in fear” for wearing a mask. I’m not afraid for myself; I’m young and healthy, so statistically I have a pretty solid chance of making it through an infection just fine (even though it’s not a guarantee). Of course, I don’t want to get sick with anything if I can help it, but in any case I am more concerned about spreading it to others who aren’t so fortunate, which is why I’ve exercised caution.

I’ve done everything right to the best of my ability — masking and handwashing, along with avoiding going out needlessly, especially — and despite working in-person in a place that’s had a few COVID outbreaks over the past few months, and my county having a flabbergasting positivity rate that’s typically run north of 25%, only now does it appear that I’ve been exposed and possibly infected (TBD later today), at home by a family member. If this is it, I’ve done everything I could do to keep it from happening or put it off, but it is what it is.
 
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oh well.. better get used to these up's, and down's

ya,, the "stay safe" part.... How can you possibly do that in a country, where the numbers are through the roof, (per day), i'd like to know. That's like wanting to make the impossible.... possible.
 
PCR-positive results, not virus cases. There's a diff.
Kerry Mullis himself even said you can PCR basically anything and get a positive result of what you‘re looking for. At this point, America’s has done such a ***** job of managing COVID, it will just have to burn through. Trump and many Americans simply, and mistakenly, fixated on the death rate, which while higher than the season Flu viruses, isn’t that spectacular. What is and should have been the focus is the hospitalization rate and post-recovery morbidity. The US should have instated a nationwide lockdown in March/April. Now it’s too late, and states like California are simply destroying lives and businesses because they mishandled it from the get go. I wish our response would have looked more like Japan’s or New Zealand’s, which understandably is hard to apply to a geographic area the size of the US, but this will continue to get worse through the winter, vaccine or not.
 
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Lockdowns and masks are preventatives, not guarantees. Without them, things would be even worse than they are.

Coincidently, masks and lockdowns certainly helped with that low influenza rate.

Just because someone is old or sick doesn’t mean they deserve to die.

Sweden admitted they made a huge mistake and are backtracking because things have gone so poorly for them.

And the fact that you think this pandemic doesn’t exist is precisely why it’s gone on for so long.
He didn’t say anywhere in his comment that that the pandemic doesn’t exist. I suggest you check your confirmation bias at the door before commenting. He also didn’t sat that the old and infirm deserve to die, only that it is and has always been the case that the old and infirm die. The statistic that over 50% of deaths have been those over 80 and 80% of the deaths have been those over 65 have a new excuse this year other than dying of old age or one of their conventional co-morbidities. How we attribute deaths this year is very much a political act.
 
Eh, NY is just as big of a mess IMO... ridiculous and arbitrary rules, many businesses permanently closed, rising crime, mass exodus, plunging property values, etc. and a shutdown looming after the New Year. A lot of people are moving out for a reason, and with higher taxes coming, it’s only going to get worse... just like California. I love NY but I don’t have high hopes for its future, even after Covid ends.
Completely agree with you. California and NY both have destroyed far more lives with their responses. Both states also suffer from crushingly pathetic leadership. Newsome and Cuomo are totally inept.
 
I don't think those ICU beds are full of false positives, if that's what you're suggesting...


Wow.

Ok. If lockdowns work, and then you lift the lockdown, the spike is anticipated. In other words, there is a spike because lockdowns work. The lockdown is what you're comparing against.

The average life expectancy you are describing is years from birth. An average is taking all the numbers, adding them together, and dividing by the number of people. Infant mortality contributes a lot of zeros into that average calculation. Once you survive a few years your life expectancy increases.

For men, once you live to see 50, you're expected to live to see 80. Once you live to see 80, you're expected to live to see 88. Once you see 88, you're expected to see 93. At 93, you're expected to see 96. Women do better.

The probability of dying in any given year doesn't cross 50% until you turn 108 in the US.

In other words, for everyone younger than 108 that asked "am I going to die in 2020?", the answer was "probably not".

So if your argument is "they're going to die anyway", then why have a healthcare system at all? Next time someone gets hit by a car, leave them there in the road unless they can walk home. Remember, the life expectancy doesn't only include disease, it includes death by accident so if we're taking life expectancy as destiny, we should stay hands off, right?

Survival is programmed into us. The argument that "they lived longer than they should have" is sociopathic.
I agree with you. I am a medical student, so it will always be my first responsibility to save someone’s life, and if we’re just going to have the attitude “oh well, they were 75 anyways, they lived a long life” then why stop there, as you pointed out. We have a responsibility to take care of our more compromised, but I also believe we cannot destroy businesses i.e. lives the way NY and California have.

As a side, unfortunately for the US we have a sick, multiple-comorbidity ridden population at baseline, so our outcomes are bound to be worse. Look at our obesity rates alone which is highly inflammatory and immuno-compromising (hello TNF-a). COVID looks to be more of a vasculopathy which explains the bizarre range of symptoms and morbidities associated with it. So if this is acting as an inflammatory disease, and you are already a chronically inflamed individual, then your outcome is already poor. The other unfortunate part of this is America is so divided politically, that the left and right are all or nothing. Total Lockdown indefinitely being endorsed by liberals, and this is fake news by the conservatives. America needs a desperate return to the center politically and the population must be able to support more fit individuals than Trump and Biden.
 
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He didn’t say anywhere in his comment that that the pandemic doesn’t exist. I suggest you check your confirmation bias at the door before commenting. He also didn’t sat that the old and infirm deserve to die, only that it is and has always been the case that the old and infirm die. The statistic that over 50% of deaths have been those over 80 and 80% of the deaths have been those over 65 have a new excuse this year other than dying of old age or one of their conventional co-morbidities. How we attribute deaths this year is very much a political act.

Do you deny that he said it was "a non-existent pandemic"?
 
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NYC and NJ were the original epicenters, before anyone knew what this was or how to fight it. Then they started lockdowns and mask usage, and their numbers went down to almost zero.
Everyone knew what it was by the time it hit NY/NJ and that it affected the elderly especially hard. Yet, Quomo sent Covid patients to nursing homes, directly resulting in 7k - 10k deaths right off the bat. NJ also failed to protect the elderly and had mass outbreaks in nursing homes. Deblasio was telling NYers to go to the movies 3 days before the lockdown. You don’t hear about these mistakes because the media has a very left bias.

Evidence shows the drop in rates in NY/NJ had more to do with a natural curve than the arbitrary lockdowns and there was no mask mandate (remember, we were advised NOT to wear masks until early-mid summer). Sweden achieved even better results than NY/NJ without lockdowns or mask usage. GA opened its economy 3 months earlier than NY/NJ and continued to see declines in infection rates for 6 weeks, and they’ve never issued a mask mandate. Today, we’re seeing little difference in infection rates or patterns between the states that opened their economies early and those that kept it shut to completely flatten the curve, nor are we seeing differences between states with mask mandates and without.
 
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Numbers only mean as much as the details behind them. Watch, I’ll do it too.

Only a rolling 7 day basis, California has 99 cases per 100k. Florida has 48/100k. Your most recent steps aren’t working.

For deaths since the start, NYC has a death rate of 293/100k...NJ 202. Florida is 95...WITH the oldest population.

But I’m not silly. Geography matters. Population density matters. Age matters. There are many factors thst make comparisons flawed. Most people with cases won’t die...if they do, they are probably older folks...which Florida has a lot. California doesn’t get credit for a lower death rate with a younger population. That’s not Apples to Apples.

Florida has over 21% of its population over 65...Covid danger age. California is the 4th YOUNGEST state with only 14% over 65. This is huge. This impacts old people the most and Florida is on average, 5 years older than California. That could explain part of the discrepancy.

You also need to look at recent data, not the entire history since February to understand what’s working today. The virus hit states at different times and the readiness has improved. Treatmeant has improved. The oldest, sickest people died earlier on. Thone are factors as well. That’s why California’s recent case rate is twice Florida’s.

You also need to understand the total cost of lockdown, all the way through. How are the families in California doing who have been decimated by their business closing? Show me those numbers.
With one side of your mouth say you Florida and California numbers are comparable, and with the other you're struggling to come up with explanations for why Florida's are worse. With one side of your mouth you say the virus hits states at different times, and with the other you say we need to look at recent data and not the entire history. And if treatment and readiness has improved with time as you say, then it's good California's restrictions were able to delay their big outbreak until now, no?
 
99.75%

Weird we never shut down the economy with influenza, SARS, or any other virus.

But this one? Let's make everyone as miserable and suicidal as possible since their entire lives are being destroyed..for what?? That's the ticket!

We need to speak up and put a stop to this bs. If you are old and have many co-morbiditites, stay out of Costco? I dunno, there are risks everywhere in human life. Make choices yourself rather than looking to "authorities" (lol) to do it for you.

Meanwhile, in Flordia....

CA is a an absolute leadership vacuum. Just awful people running that once-great state.
 
99.75%

Weird we never shut down the economy with influenza, SARS, or any other virus.

But this one? Let's make everyone as miserable and suicidal as possible since their entire lives are being destroyed..for what?? That's the ticket!

We need to speak up and put a stop to this bs. If you are old and have many co-morbiditites, stay out of Costco? I dunno, there are risks everywhere in human life. Make choices yourself rather than looking to "authorities" (lol) to do it for you.

Meanwhile, in Flordia....

CA is a an absolute leadership vacuum. Just awful people running that once-great state.
Normally I would agree with you, but the problem is hospital bed capacity.

Lockdowns are necessary otherwise the number of ill people will exceed capacity and the death rate will skyrocket as a result. Not just from Covid-19 but other things to, like people severely injured in car accidents.

Believe me, I believe in personal responsibility and knowing your own risk factors too, but there has to be a point where we need to make sure there's enough room at the hospitals for people who need them.
 
Everyone knew what it was by the time it hit NY/NJ and that it affected the elderly especially hard. Yet, Quomo sent Covid patients to nursing homes, directly resulting in 7k - 10k deaths right off the bat. NJ also failed to protect the elderly and had mass outbreaks in nursing homes. Deblasio was telling NYers to go to the movies 3 days before the lockdown. You don’t hear about these mistakes because the media has a very left bias.

Evidence shows the drop in rates in NY/NJ had more to do with a natural curve than the arbitrary lockdowns and there was no mask mandate (remember, we were advised NOT to wear masks until early-mid summer). Sweden achieved even better results than NY/NJ without lockdowns or mask usage. GA opened its economy 3 months earlier than NY/NJ and continued to see declines in infection rates for 6 weeks, and they’ve never issued a mask mandate. Today, we’re seeing little difference in infection rates or patterns between the states that opened their economies early and those that kept it shut to completely flatten the curve, nor are we seeing differences between states with mask mandates and without.
Evidence actually shows that it was visitors and staff driving nursing home infection rates, not recovering returning residents. DeBlasio did not tell people to go to the movies three days before the lockdown. And masks were mandated mid-April, not mid-summer. Also Georgia has a higher case rate and almost twice the death rate as California.
 
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