Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Just raise the price and people will continue paying. Lol...”basic economics”. Raising the price can just as easily kill his sales. Many Apple fans maybe willing to pay whatever Apple asks, but they won treat everyone like that.
Some of you think that us poor iOS restricted masses just are suffering from Stockholm syndrome and if only we could be liberated from the tyranny of the Apple App Store, we would see the light.
This is garbage. Time and time again, it's pointed out that nobody has to buy an iOS based device. Choice exists in the option to purchase a superior Android device or a Windows phone, or something else.
Think of it this way, your hypothetical "App Store B" is allowed on iOS. I personally want nothing to do with it because I like my curated Apple experience. You say "well, you don't have to use it then!" But alas, my employer has decided to engage with a second-rate SAAS company and their app is in "App Store B" because "It saves them money".
Well, it turns out, the app is in Store B and not the real App Store because it has a crappy UX, poor security management, uses custom APIs that conflict with restricted storage and has a memory leak because the nephew of the company's CEO wrote it while doing a summer internship. Now, that piece of garbage is on my phone, ruining my experience. Should I still be able to go the the Genius Bar for free for help? Should I get angry with Apple because my brand new phone is running like a dog?
Fragmentation will destroy the Apple experience. I don't buy Apple iPhones, I don't buy Apple iPads, I buy the Apple experience. I pay good money for that experience. If you think you know better than I do what I really want, you really need to get your head examined (that's not what I really want to say, but probably all that the forum will allow). Imposing the option to bypass Apple's vetting process is absolutely going to break the Apple experience. Arguments to the contrary are nonsensical. The Apple Ecosystem experience was crafted specifically to be this way and its a key feature of the platform. It's the main market advantage that iOS has over Android. Taking that away will remove that competitive advantage from a company that's already the underdog in the smartphone space.
For reference, I have a Mac AND a PC because I like choice in that part of my life. I load whatever the heck I want from wherever on the PC and I deal with the consequences.
#dontandroidmyiphone
This is garbage. Time and time again, it's pointed out that nobody has to buy an iOS based device. Choice exists in the option to purchase a superior Android device or a Windows phone, or something else.
Think of it this way, your hypothetical "App Store B" is allowed on iOS. I personally want nothing to do with it because I like my curated Apple experience. You say "well, you don't have to use it then!" But alas, my employer has decided to engage with a second-rate SAAS company and their app is in "App Store B" because "It saves them money".
Well, it turns out, the app is in Store B and not the real App Store because it has a crappy UX, poor security management, uses custom APIs that conflict with restricted storage and has a memory leak because the nephew of the company's CEO wrote it while doing a summer internship. Now, that piece of garbage is on my phone, ruining my experience. Should I still be able to go the the Genius Bar for free for help? Should I get angry with Apple because my brand new phone is running like a dog?
Fragmentation will destroy the Apple experience. I don't buy Apple iPhones, I don't buy Apple iPads, I buy the Apple experience. I pay good money for that experience. If you think you know better than I do what I really want, you really need to get your head examined (that's not what I really want to say, but probably all that the forum will allow). Imposing the option to bypass Apple's vetting process is absolutely going to break the Apple experience. Arguments to the contrary are nonsensical. The Apple Ecosystem experience was crafted specifically to be this way and its a key feature of the platform. It's the main market advantage that iOS has over Android. Taking that away will remove that competitive advantage from a company that's already the underdog in the smartphone space.
For reference, I have a Mac AND a PC because I like choice in that part of my life. I load whatever the heck I want from wherever on the PC and I deal with the consequences.
#dontandroidmyiphone
Developers are not entitled to a guaranteed living. If they can’t meet expenses because they can’t charge enough to make a profit, the solution isn’t to complain about the expenses, but to make a product that people are willing to pay more for.
I see it like this. If you want to sell your diamond studded panties at Tiffany, then you pay their floor space rental fees, it that is too rich for you then you can sell them at Steinberg, or build your own Tiffany 2.0. Epic got booted out and place their own clients at risk - thats on Epic not Apple.
Let's say his app costs $10. He's not happy with getting $7, he wants $8.5! You really think customers who gladly payed $10 would think $12 is outlandish? And it's not about raising the price, it's about setting a price based on what you want to earn from the beginning. Basic economics.
I think you misread his post. He is not arguing that Apple should do this, just that he would love it if they did (as it would mean more money for him). However, he is quite clear, that given a choice between a lower fee and an "open iOS", he would take the higher fee and the locked in store.
I completely agree with him on the second half, I currently have no dog in this fight, so I do not care about the developer fees, but I do think that Apple have every right to set them as the feel appropriate.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel
I'm not sure what Louis Rossman did to earn your disgust, however his championing of right-to-repair and bringing that issue to a wider audience is good for the environment, small business, and us hobbyists and tinkerers.
For that I'm grateful that people like him exist and admire his work ethic and willingness to share.
Oh, I dunno. Perhaps it's his total hypocrisy, or is it his predilection to knowingly buy counterfeit parts like batteries from China.
He's a profiteering sleezeball who loves to rile up his anti-Apple followers to get more money.
Apple could always offer just a bare iOS device, no Secure Enclave, no T2, just the hardware/processors that perform as well as an iPhone, just with no access to iOS or the Apple App store (you find and install your own app store and apps). Of course, the downside of this is that many who choose Android for the freedom will begin to choose Apple’s new device giving them even MORE of the market.
Now, it’s not going to get yearly updates, of course, but if folks want iOS devices and “freedom” they can have it without impacting Apple’s ecosystem.
For every copy of sa XBOX/PS4/Switch game sold at a retail store the Console Creator makes 30%. In fact it's 30% for every disc that is created (not sold). 30% for digital sales and DLC/IAP.
Nope. App Store rules dictate that things that can be offered as IAPs must be offered as IAPs, except in the case of so-called "reader" apps, intended for certain categories of apps that provide subscription services against which Apple competes. Games are not considered reader apps.
So, if Epic decided to go this route and Apple at some point caught wind that V-Bucks could be purchased, they'd reject subsequent app updates in violation of App Store Review Guidelines, rule 3.1.1: "If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase."
Why can Epic only sell vbucks why can’t Apple or anyone else? Epic has a monopoly on the game and need to be investigated for making users pay more and not having competition in selling vbucks.
Making a business deal is fine. What Epic wants is not a deal. It's the type of crap you see in a mob movie where they just come in and take your business. Read the court filings, Tim wants his own store with full OS level access and no approval process from Apple so it can sell apps and Apple gets no cut from it. Apple/Amazon came to an agreement and that is why FireSticks have the Apple TV+ services and Prime Video can purchase videos.
Epic violated the terms, Apple dropped the app from the store and told Epic that they have 14 days to fix it or get its accounts terminated (Standard Operation). Courts told Apple only to terminate Epic US' account since they are in violation. Also MS wrote a letter crying about the Unreal Engine licensees shouldn't suffer because of this violation. This part is ironic because if Apple loses and has to allow the Epic Games Store on to iOS then Xbox/PS4/Switch will be open for the same by companies like Ubisoft, EA, Activision, Google, etc. Other will spout BS about "General Computing Device" vs "Gaming Device" but in the courts eyes that is not a classification. They are just markets. Back to your question, Judge told Epic you have 8 days left to undo the violation if not then Apple is free to terminate your account. At this point, even if Epic reverses it's changes it will be too late as Apple has terminated the account. I think the App will not open but I don't play it on a mobile device so I don't know. Even if Epic wants back in Apple has the right to wait for the completion of the lawsuit. Most corporations will shutout any company suing them.
If you guys constantly argue about a trial that hasn't even been started only the TRO, how can you possibly survive to the end of Sept?
That's called Android (AOSP) without the Google Services. Epic doesn't like it. They want all the resources that Google offers on Android without paying for it.
Heck even District Court Judge Yvonne Gonzalez-Rogers ruled Epic's issue was effectively a Self-inflicted wound. But and this make me wonder why this thread even exists is in that same ruing he ordered "Apple not to limit Epic’s ability to provide Unreal Engine, key graphics technology, for other apps." so wouldn't terminating Epic Games' Developer Account fall under that ruling?
I honestly don't understand what is going on anymore. Why in the name of sanity why would anyone potentially piss off a judge who seems to be largely on their side?
If I was Apple I would put in a binding arbitration clause in future contracts just so I wouldn't have to put up with this BS again.
Or Fortnite skins!! I hear they now have Marvel Skins! Why should Marvel share any part of the money for the Marvel skins with Epic! They should just make the game and step back while peddle our wares.
Epic International has the Dev Cert for the Unreal Engine and Epic US has the Fortnite Dev Cert. Standard Operating Procedure is when your app is in violation your whole account is in jeopardy of being terminated. Years ago they offered 28 days to resolve the violated but it's been reduced to 14 days. MS wrote a letter to the courts telling them to halt the termination of the UE account and the judge agreed.
I guess Apple was turning a blind eye to this. My nephews have purchased vbucks in the past and they started on their parents iPhone. They now play on a PS4.
The judge is a woman, not a “he.” And, no, terminating Epic Games’ developer account doesn’t limit epic’s ability to provide unreal engine - that’s a different subsidiary (so a different developer account).