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Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

Reindeer_Legal said:
I have met my burden of proof. Meanwhile you have provided absolutely no argument to defend the apparent monopoly of App Store. Why don't you prove to me that, despite the apparent illegality, App Store is somehow in a strange way legal?
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Did you chose to ignore the case I mentioned?

I gave two tests that need to be used to show a monopoly is illegal.

How about instead of attacking me you l me WHY you feel my post was wrong.

Last I checked you had yet to provide any actual LEGAL argument to support your case.

Courts don’t rule on fairness, they rule on laws.
 
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Alan Wynn said:
Actually, nope, it is not the brain, just the data store. Just as with weather, Apple built an app that accessed Yahoo! Weather and then decided to switch it to Weather.com data, without needing to replace everything. However, even if we accept your description, it is meaningless. Apple could easily do without the App Store, they would build or buy the most used apps, and build or buy various backends.

It is not inconceivable to me that given a choice of the consumer-unfriendly Android experience, or no App Store at all, Apple might be tempted to pick the latter. I do not think that choice (or any like it) is likely. Further, I hope that Apple is not forced to ruin the consumer experience by adding support for multiple stores and opening developers to increased piracy with side loading. If that is the ecosystem you want, it is available to you from every Android manufacturer.
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The brain is not the brain, it's just the data store.
 
Reindeer_Legal said:
I have met my burden of proof. Meanwhile you have provided absolutely no argument to defend the apparent monopoly of App Store. Why don't you prove to me that, despite the apparent illegality, App Store is somehow in a strange way legal?
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By meeting your burden of proof you mean you repeated yourself several times presenting the same assertions with no case law to support your position. If one of my CS students used your technique, I would have used my "Proof by Vehement Assertion" stamp. @TiggrToo, @cmaier and I have all presented case law that supports our position, including the PyStar case (the closest analog to the claims you are making) in which the court ruled against your position.

For this reason, the Pystar court held that a relevant market limited to the Mac OS was an improper, single-brand market, and dismissed tying claims based on Apple requiring only the Mac OS to be used on Apple computers.
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Reindeer_Legal said:
An illegal agreement is illegal from the very beginning. That's why it's terms are unenforceable and Epic doesn't have to follow it at all.
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You keep saying this without any justification.

WHY is it illegal? Please quote the specific statute it falls under. Or, the specific case law that demonstrates that such a statement has validity.

Right now all you keep saying is the equivalent of “The sun is green!” with zero justification for it.
 
cmaier said:
My Tesla has an operating system that runs on the center console. It only supports Spotify. Spotify is different than The Tesla. Therefore Apple can sue Tesla for not supporting Apple Music?

Your leap from point 1 to point 2 is missing a lot of steps, and makes no legal sense.
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If Tesla actively obstructs Apple from making Apple Music on that platform, it would be illegal. That would be illegal anti-competitive conduct. Tesla isn't obligated to provide interoperability. But they cannot deliberately restrict what music apps consumers can use. If Apple wants to make Apple Music, if will be on Tesla.
This should be the developer's decision, not any App Store's.
Remember, the contract is between the developer and you. Any third party or middlemen interfering with your contractual freedom is infringing your rights.
 
thund3rcat said:
Are you telling me the GUI is the brain?
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What sort of developer are you?

You the sort of personal who thinks that the UI just magically pops into existence?

Good grief! If I put together a Tableau viz then the magic comes not from the data, but the way I craft the data to tell a story.

Sure the data’s important, but as the same gal who wrote the entire ETL process (from scratch) I ensure a few key datasets can be used to tell multiple tales.

The hard work is used to take the data and present it in multiple meaningful ways that is visually useful but can also be navigated wats.

With an app that includes understanding the entry points, the events raised by sensors and updating the UI accordingly.
 
TiggrToo said:
What sort of developer are you?

You the sort of personal who thinks that the UI just magically pops into existence?

Good grief! If I put together a Tableau viz then the magic comes not from the data, but the way I craft the data to tell a story.

Sure the data’s important, but as the same gal who wrote the entire ETL process (from scratch) I ensure a few key datasets can be used to tell multiple tales.

The hard work is used to take the data and present it in multiple meaningful ways that is visually useful but can also be navigated wats.

With an app that includes understanding the entry points, the events raised by sensors and updating the UI accordingly.
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What sort of developer are you? Apps consist of frontend and backend.
 
TiggrToo said:
Did you chose to ignore the case I mentioned?

I gave two tests that need to be used to show a monopoly is illegal.

How about instead of attacking me you l me WHY you feel my post was wrong.

Last I checked you had yet to provide any actual LEGAL argument to support your case.

Courts don’t rule on fairness, they rule on laws.
Click to expand...

Did you erase your memory of the thread where I explained that the court ruled illegal Microsoft's tying of IE to Windows?
 
Reindeer_Legal said:
If Apple wants to make Apple Music, if will be on Tesla.
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Oh, so that’s the reason I can watch HBO Max on my Roku...

...oh wait. I can’t. Roku won’t allow it on there.

Your entire post is laughable. You keep saying that “this is illegal” and “that is required” but you fail EACH and EVERY TIME to provide citations for these statements.

Why is that?

Just because you personally believe in rainbow farting unicorns doesn’t mean they exist!
 
thund3rcat said:
The brain is not the brain, it's just the data store.
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Since you keep making the same assertion, let us go back to your original point.

@Unregistered 4U said:
Unregistered 4U said:
but the App Store shutting down would affect Apps developers FAR more than Apple.
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To which you responded:

thund3rcat said:
No it wouldn't, everyone would flood to Android. Iphone would instantly be abandoned.
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The App Store shutting down would have no impact on Apple's use of third party services, just as before the App Store, Apple supported Maps (using Google's data) and AOL IM for chat. Later both of those back ends were replaced with Apple's own services. The App Store has nothing to do with services, it has to do with third party apps. Currently there are many third party weather apps (almost none of which have their own weather data sources), and Apple has its own weather app not distributed via the App Store. If the App Store went away, the third party apps would go away, but Apple would still have its own app.
 
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Reindeer_Legal said:
Did you erase your memory of the thread where I explained that the court ruled illegal Microsoft's tying of IE to Windows?
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Did you forget where I reminded you that was dealing with Microsoft forcing TBURD PARTY MANUFACTURERS to install Microsoft software?

The case has NOTHING to do with app stores.
 
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thund3rcat said:
What sort of developer are you? Apps consist of frontend and backend.
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Oh, let’s see. 30+ years experience. Author of three open system projects. Ex military contractor specialist in data management with both the RAF and British Army. Worked around the world in Hong Kong, South Africa, a good chunk of Europe and now the United States. Working in consumer banking, grocery retail and warehousing mapping.

Now working on a facade system to integrate RabbitMq, Redis and Sql Server, to further scale out the ETL process to multiple servers, also in charge of a data warehouse that runs the entire reporting infrastructure (which I also created). Oh yeah, also now I’m charge with putting together the backend for our new Kubernetes backend.

I’m THAT sort of developer. And damn proud of it as well.
 
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Alan Wynn said:
The App Store shutting down would have no impact on Apple's use of third party services, just as before the App Store, Apple supported Maps (using Google's data) and AOL IM for chat. Later both of those back ends were replaced with Apple's own services. The App Store has nothing to do with services, it has to do with third party apps. Currently there are many third party weather apps (almost none of which have their own weather data sources), and Apple has its own weather app not distributed via the App Store. If the App Store went away, the third party apps would go away, but Apple would still have its own app.
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Apps popularity and implementation now is a lot different than back then. Waiting for ios update for new apps or update would kill off a lot of the base.

TiggrToo said:
Oh, let’s see. 30+ years experience. Author of three open system projects. Ex military contractor specialist in data management with both the RAF and British Army. Worked around the world in Hong Kong, South Africa, a good chunk of Europe and now the United States. Working in consumer banking, grocery retail and warehousing mapping.

Now working on a facade system to integrate RabbitMq, Redis and Sql Server, to further scale out the ETL process to multiple servers, also in charge of a data warehouse that runs the entire reporting infrastructure (which I also created). Oh yeah, also now I’m charge with putting together the backend for our new Kubernetes backend.

I’m THAT sort of developer. And damn proud of it as well.
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It was rhetorical.
 
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thund3rcat said:
What sort of developer are you? Apps consist of frontend and backend.
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Simply no. Apps sometimes access backends, sometimes they are self contained. However, a well designed app does not include the back end, but communicates with it using a well defined set of APIs. In both common parlance and in CS, the app is the self-contained code that runs on the client. There may be a server application as well, that is a separate thing.

However, this is all irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and to your original point.
 
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Reindeer_Legal said:
If Tesla actively obstructs Apple from making Apple Music on that platform, it would be illegal
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Total rubbish. Tesla are under no requirement what so ever to allow Apple access to their hardware.

If you really know this fantasy of yours to be correct, you can point out under what legal ground such a requirement is made.

Tesla have the full and legal right to limit API access to whomever they do chose, and price access accordingly.
 
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Alan Wynn said:
Simply no. Apps sometimes access backends, sometimes they are self contained. However, a well designed app does not include the back end, but communicates with it using a well defined set of APIs. In both common parlance and in CS, the app is the self-contained code that runs on the client. There may be a server application as well, that is a separate thing.

However, this is all irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and to your original point.
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We were talking about apps like Maps...
 
thund3rcat said:
That includes a backend
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Er, what?

Your language is very antiquated. You sound like someone who last dabbled in programming during the classic Client/Server days of the mid 90s.

Back in the “bad old days” (early 2010s), one had two ways to render maps from Google, either writing a class that implemented the MapType interface, or by using the ImageMapType class.

Either way it allowed you to use either Google’s imagery or your own to perform the actual tile rendering.

However you were then required to handle the size of each tile and the allowable zoom levels, making repeated calls to getTile and releaseTile as appropriate.

So, what is this “backend” you speak of?
 
Apple should allow Epic back, but require them to pay each play $100 dollars worth of V-bucks plus the 30% cut, plus a public apology. PUBG is probably loving this. Now imagine if Google would follow suit, ban plus push PUBG. 😂
 
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