Apple Tested Stage Manager on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied

[russell_314]

If Apple didn't keep making up technical excuses, this probably would've been forgotten by now. They should've either stayed silent like usual, or just said something more vague, like "we want the magical experience for users to be consistent on our new line of Apple Silicon," without ever going technical about performance, RAM and swap memory. But they decided to go technical, and that's where people can latch on as technical things can (and should) be explainable with data.

The fun continues.

People were complaining about this before Apple said anything. Sure maybe Apple commenting gives them more to talk about but it's just ridiculous. Apple had to made a decision and they did. I have the iPad Air 4 but I'm not going to throw a tantrum on this one. It's not like Apple took something away. I suspected this was going to happen when they jumped to M1. I mean people were saying having M1 and 8-16 GB in an iPad was just marketing since it can't use it well here we are. Oh your iPad only has 4 GB? Sorry bud. Just wait till apps start coming out that require M1. People are going to lose their minds 🤣

 

[yogeewan]

It's Apple's property. I wholeheartedly supports them deciding how to make their own software.

Customers should have no right to complain what Apple does with its property just like Apple shouldn't have right to complain what customers to with their property. Customers only job is to decide if they want to buy or not buy Apple products.

Customers should have no right to complain? Dude, you do realise that customers buy the product otherwise apple will be sitting with their products on their heads?

 

[ian87w]

People were complaining about this before Apple said anything. Sure maybe Apple commenting gives them more to talk about but it's just ridiculous. Apple had to made a decision and they did. I have the iPad Air 4 but I'm not going to throw a tantrum on this one. It's not like Apple took something away. I suspected this was going to happen when they jumped to M1. I mean people were saying having M1 and 8-16 GB in an iPad was just marketing since it can't use it well here we are. Oh your iPad only has 4 GB? Sorry bud. Just wait till apps start coming out that require M1. People are going to lose their minds 🤣

People will always complain regardless, but if Apple had stayed silent, people would've shrugged it off and think "oh it's just Apple," and moved on. I mean look at iPhone 7 users. We complained a bit when Apple dropped the 7 and 7+ form iOS16, but then that's it. No lingering around since Apple doesn't say anything. We just see it as Apple being Apple.

But this one, for some reason, Apple just kept on making statements over statements, and even sent Craig out, and made some technical reasoning as their excuse. Technical reasons are concrete as they can be quantified, and thus people have things to latch on and question Apple. And if there are inconsistencies, it breaks Apple's weak distortion field.

Another option is for Apple to just say "hey, stage manager is a magical experience and we want the best experience for our new Apple Silicon line" and just leave it at that. No need to get technical about RAM and SSD speed. Or even better, point out how the older devices are still great as well with side-by-side etc, instead of saying they cannot perform well. This is how Jobs was very good at, create a simple narrative "we want to make great products" and leave out the technical mumbo jumbo and create a bullet-proof reality distortion field.

Apple's PR team really needs some new hires.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Nevermind...

 

[teh_hunterer]

Air 5 does not meet stage manager requirement but Apple let it runs it, all your technical ideas cannot explain why. The only reason is just making more $$$.

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. But after looking into it I assume you're referring to the article that came out claiming that the SSD in the 64GB iPad Air 5 doesn't support memory swap. This is because a page on the Apple site says that memory swap is not available on the 64GB model.

I think we might be misinterpreting Apple's page here. I take it to mean that developers cannot program their apps to request virtual memory on a 64GB iPad Air - not that the SSD literally doesn't support memory swap. Stage Manager may absolutely be able to use memory swapping to stop apps from reloading, without the apps themselves being able to request additional virtual memory.

Thus at this point it seems completely possible that the base iPad Air 5 could still use virtual memory to make stage manager work.

 

[snipr125]

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. But after looking into it I assume you're referring to the article that came out claiming that the SSD in the 64GB iPad Air 5 doesn't support memory swap. This is because a page on the Apple site says that memory swap is not available on the 64GB model.

I think we might be misinterpreting Apple's page here. I take it to mean that developers cannot program their apps to request virtual memory on a 64GB iPad Air - not that the SSD literally doesn't support memory swap. Stage Manager may absolutely be able to use memory swapping to stop apps from reloading, without the apps themselves being able to request additional virtual memory.

Thus at this point it seems completely possible that the base iPad Air 5 could still use virtual memory to make stage manager work.

Also the 8GB of RAM probably allows the Air 5 64 GB model to utilise Stage Manager at a base level of performance that Apple deem ’acceptable’. The M1 iPads with more internal storage, will be able to keep more Apps open in a live state, that’s the main difference.

Either way the base iPad Air 5 is going to sell even better now that it is the cheapest model available to use Stage Manager.

 

[steve09090]

If Apple didn't keep making up technical excuses, this probably would've been forgotten by now. They should've either stayed silent like usual, or just said something more vague, like "we want the magical experience for users to be consistent on our new line of Apple Silicon," without ever going technical about performance, RAM and swap memory. But they decided to go technical, and that's where people can latch on as technical things can (and should) be explainable with data.

The fun continues.

They try to explain, but some people think they know better than the experts who designed the thing. They can’t win with the know-it-all crowd

 

[babyexercise]

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. But after looking into it I assume you're referring to the article that came out claiming that the SSD in the 64GB iPad Air 5 doesn't support memory swap. This is because a page on the Apple site says that memory swap is not available on the 64GB model.

I think we might be misinterpreting Apple's page here. I take it to mean that developers cannot program their apps to request virtual memory on a 64GB iPad Air - not that the SSD literally doesn't support memory swap. Stage Manager may absolutely be able to use memory swapping to stop apps from reloading, without the apps themselves being able to request additional virtual memory.

Thus at this point it seems completely possible that the base iPad Air 5 could still use virtual memory to make stage manager work.

Memory swap with a 64gb ssd would kill the ssd within few years, so 64gb does not support it totally make sense.

Apple just wants to make more $$$ and don't want to have most sexy new features in any old ipads.

 

[babyexercise]

People will always complain regardless, but if Apple had stayed silent, people would've shrugged it off and think "oh it's just Apple," and moved on. I mean look at iPhone 7 users. We complained a bit when Apple dropped the 7 and 7+ form iOS16, but then that's it. No lingering around since Apple doesn't say anything. We just see it as Apple being Apple.

But this one, for some reason, Apple just kept on making statements over statements, and even sent Craig out, and made some technical reasoning as their excuse. Technical reasons are concrete as they can be quantified, and thus people have things to latch on and question Apple. And if there are inconsistencies, it breaks Apple's weak distortion field.

Another option is for Apple to just say "hey, stage manager is a magical experience and we want the best experience for our new Apple Silicon line" and just leave it at that. No need to get technical about RAM and SSD speed. Or even better, point out how the older devices are still great as well with side-by-side etc, instead of saying they cannot perform well. This is how Jobs was very good at, create a simple narrative "we want to make great products" and leave out the technical mumbo jumbo and create a bullet-proof reality distortion field.

Apple's PR team really needs some new hires.

I agree it is Apple PR problem. Apple is a business and it is fine they keep the latest best for most expensive new models. The problem is they use hardwares as an excuse this time.

 

[ian87w]

They try to explain, but some people think they know better than the experts who designed the thing. They can’t win with the know-it-all crowd

That's the thing. I think Apple shouldn't have explained anything, let alone going technical about it. Apple shouldn't have said anything technical about RAM, SSD speed, performance, etc.

What Apple have been saying is basically "Your old iPad is too slow to handle this thing because this thing needs the performance, RAM, and SSD speed that only our latest product can offer." That sounds condescending and slap the face of 2020 iPad Pro users.

Imo what Apple should've said:
"Yes, stage manager is our new magical experience to multi-task, and we want the best experience for our best in class Apple Silicon chips. Our previous generation iPad Pros are also great at multi-tasking, supporting 4 simultaneous apps using side-by-side and slide over."
Bam, done. Create a narrative how you want your best product to have the best experience using simple words, while still confirming that your older products are still awesome as well. No need for technical mumbo jumbo, let alone degrading your own older products.

The current Apple PR team is either lazy or incompetent.
Apple, please hire me.

 

[babyexercise]

All OS from Apple are very ram effective, normally just 50% of Windows is enough. Saying 8gb ram is minimum and 6gb is not enough is just a PR marketing failure.

 

[steve09090]

That's the thing. I think Apple shouldn't have explained anything, let alone going technical about it. Apple shouldn't have said anything technical about RAM, SSD speed, performance, etc.

What Apple have been saying is basically "Your old iPad is too slow to handle this thing because this thing needs the performance, RAM, and SSD speed that only our latest product can offer." That sounds condescending and slap the face of 2020 iPad Pro users.

Imo what Apple should've said:
"Yes, stage manager is our new magical experience to multi-task, and we want the best experience for our best in class Apple Silicon chips. Our previous generation iPad Pros are also great at multi-tasking, supporting 4 simultaneous apps using side-by-side and slide over."
Bam, done. Create a narrative how you want your best product to have the best experience using simple words, while still confirming that your older products are still awesome as well. No need for technical mumbo jumbo, let alone degrading your own older products.

The current Apple PR team is either lazy or incompetent.
Apple, please hire me.

I agree. But I don’t think they could win either way.

 

[phrehdd]

That's the thing. I think Apple shouldn't have explained anything, let alone going technical about it. Apple shouldn't have said anything technical about RAM, SSD speed, performance, etc.

What Apple have been saying is basically "Your old iPad is too slow to handle this thing because this thing needs the performance, RAM, and SSD speed that only our latest product can offer." That sounds condescending and slap the face of 2020 iPad Pro users.

Imo what Apple should've said:
"Yes, stage manager is our new magical experience to multi-task, and we want the best experience for our best in class Apple Silicon chips. Our previous generation iPad Pros are also great at multi-tasking, supporting 4 simultaneous apps using side-by-side and slide over."
Bam, done. Create a narrative how you want your best product to have the best experience using simple words, while still confirming that your older products are still awesome as well. No need for technical mumbo jumbo, let alone degrading your own older products.

The current Apple PR team is either lazy or incompetent.
Apple, please hire me.

Yes, I have a 2020 iPad Pro 16/512 and yes I should be and am pissed off that there will be no attempt to bring a limited form of this feature (Stage Manager). I don't care which reason is the truth (since they already goofed on that front) but do care that they are willing to cast off 2 year old purchases.

Why not simply do a more limited version? 3 + 3 apps and output only to 4K? That would satisfy for all the right reasons the end-user and Apple's own reputation.

I can appreciate optimizing for M architecture but Apple can still offer up a lesser or limited version of this feature to 2 year old systems.

 

[babyexercise]

Yes, I have a 2020 iPad Pro 16/512 and yes I should be and am pissed off that there will be no attempt to bring a limited form of this feature (Stage Manager). I don't care which reason is the truth (since they already goofed on that front) but do care that they are willing to cast off 2 year old purchases.

Why not simply do a more limited version? 3 + 3 apps and output only to 4K? That would satisfy for all the right reasons the end-user and Apple's own reputation.

I can appreciate optimizing for M architecture but Apple can still offer up a lesser or limited version of this feature to 2 year old systems.

They want $$$ but nothing else like reputation, they thought their 6gb is not enough excuse would work fine.

 

[ian87w]

I agree. But I don’t think they could win either way.

But what they've done so far made things worse. Marketing is an art where you can still win by not opening up more cans of worms. 😉

 

[cupcakes2000]

Yes, I have a 2020 iPad Pro 16/512 and yes I should be and am pissed off that there will be no attempt to bring a limited form of this feature (Stage Manager). I don't care which reason is the truth (since they already goofed on that front) but do care that they are willing to cast off 2 year old purchases.

Why not simply do a more limited version? 3 + 3 apps and output only to 4K? That would satisfy for all the right reasons the end-user and Apple's own reputation.

I can appreciate optimizing for M architecture but Apple can still offer up a lesser or limited version of this feature to 2 year old systems.

Isn’t a limited form already what we have? 3 apps via split screen and slideover? Or….?

 

[teh_hunterer]

Memory swap with a 64gb ssd would kill the ssd within few years, so 64gb does not support it totally make sense.

Apple just wants to make more $$$ and don't want to have most sexy new features in any old ipads.

OK, at this point I can only conclude you're trolling. You don't engage with any points made by anyone here - you just brush them aside and repeat your assertions. You are completely unreachable.

Maybe it's a language barrier?

You have no evidence that there will be no virtual memory on the 64GB iPad Air 5. There is only evidence that apps won't be able to request virtual memory. It's entirely possible that some virtual memory may be used by iPadOS to keep the apps currently open in stage manager from reloading, without allowing the apps themselves to go over their normal RAM limits.

 

[babyexercise]

But what they've done so far made things worse. Marketing is an art where you can still win by not opening up more cans of worms. 😉

OK, at this point I can only conclude you're trolling. You don't engage with any points made by anyone here - you just brush them aside and repeat your assertions. You are completely unreachable.

Maybe it's a language barrier?

You have no evidence that there will be no virtual memory on the 64GB iPad Air 5. There is only evidence that apps won't be able to request virtual memory. It's entirely possible that some virtual memory may be used by iPadOS to keep the apps currently open in stage manager from reloading, without allowing the apps themselves to go over their normal RAM limits.

Ipad 5 air has no memory swapping and Apple has said this is required for stage manager. It is this simple, Apple PR cannot even makes an excuse matches up with their own technical team.

 

[aevan]

At first I had no idea what you were talking about. But after looking into it I assume you're referring to the article that came out claiming that the SSD in the 64GB iPad Air 5 doesn't support memory swap. This is because a page on the Apple site says that memory swap is not available on the 64GB model.

I think we might be misinterpreting Apple's page here. I take it to mean that developers cannot program their apps to request virtual memory on a 64GB iPad Air - not that the SSD literally doesn't support memory swap. Stage Manager may absolutely be able to use memory swapping to stop apps from reloading, without the apps themselves being able to request additional virtual memory.

Thus at this point it seems completely possible that the base iPad Air 5 could still use virtual memory to make stage manager work.

That is my guess as well. Obviously the situation is complex and there is only so much Apple can explain in a few footnotes.

With that said, it is possible that they could find a way to make it run on other devices too, or make a limited version available to other iPads, etc. Of course, people would treat that as proof that they've been right all along, but the reality is - Apple didn't do it to force anyone to upgrade. Whether they invest additional resources to make it run on older iPads in some capacity as a result of pushback, that's another thing.

 

[aevan]

Ipad 5 air has no memory swapping and Apple has said this is required for stage manager. It is this simple, Apple PR cannot even makes an excuse matches up with their own technical team.

It's complicated - iPadOS and iOS actually already use virtual memory, it's just how it's used and for what purpose. What Apple is reffering to here is most likely "using virtual memory for apps" - which is not possible on 64Gb iPad Air. That doesn't mean it doesn't use virtual memory in a way that allows Stage Manager and requires an M1.

Obviously, the way swap will work on other iPads is that the app can request up to 16Gb (in addition to everything else) - you can see how that would be problematic on a 64Gb device. With that said, it doesn't mean the system isn't actually using swap in background.

While I agree Apple should clarify this - this is obviously too nuanced for you as you just consider it PR excuses, without any real proof. At this point, you're completely ignoring all the explanations people are giving you - so there's no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Ipad 5 air has no memory swapping and Apple has said this is required for stage manager. It is this simple, Apple PR cannot even makes an excuse matches up with their own technical team.

I'll have to keep repeating myself then. You have no evidence that there will be no virtual memory on the 64GB iPad Air 5. There is only evidence that apps won't be able to request virtual memory. It's entirely possible that some virtual memory may be used by iPadOS to keep the apps currently open in stage manager from reloading, without allowing the apps themselves to go over their normal RAM limits.

 

[Isamilis]

They want $$$ but nothing else like reputation, they thought their 6gb is not enough excuse would work fine.

If they limit for pro 2020-2021, it will be more acceptable.

 

[babyexercise]

It's complicated - iPadOS and iOS actually already use virtual memory, it's just how it's used and for what purpose. What Apple is reffering to here is most likely "using virtual memory for apps" - which is not possible on 64Gb iPad Air. That doesn't mean it doesn't use virtual memory in a way that allows Stage Manager and requires an M1.

Obviously, the way swap will work on other iPads is that the app can request up to 16Gb (in addition to everything else) - you can see how that would be problematic on a 64Gb device. With that said, it doesn't mean the system isn't actually using swap in background.

While I agree Apple should clarify this - this is obviously too nuanced for you as you just consider it PR excuses, without any real proof. At this point, you're completely ignoring all the explanations people are giving you - so there's no point in continuing this discussion.

Can you read?
Stage Manger requires memory swapping
Air 5 runs Stage Manger but no memory swapping

You don't need to keep making stuff up to make yourself feels better. Apple just doesn't care ipad pro 2020 users (may bought from Apple store in 2021) feeling.

 

[Isamilis]

It's complicated - iPadOS and iOS actually already use virtual memory, it's just how it's used and for what purpose. What Apple is reffering to here is most likely "using virtual memory for apps" - which is not possible on 64Gb iPad Air. That doesn't mean it doesn't use virtual memory in a way that allows Stage Manager and requires an M1.

Obviously, the way swap will work on other iPads is that the app can request up to 16Gb (in addition to everything else) - you can see how that would be problematic on a 64Gb device. With that said, it doesn't mean the system isn't actually using swap in background.

While I agree Apple should clarify this - this is obviously too nuanced for you as you just consider it PR excuses, without any real proof. At this point, you're completely ignoring all the explanations people are giving you - so there's no point in continuing this discussion.

In other word, Air 5 base model couldn’t run heavy apps (where this apps will request virtual memory), which make sense IMO.

 

[SergueiTemp]

Wasnt satisfied that people aren't going to upgrade.