Apple Tested Stage Manager on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied

[teh_hunterer]

Can you read?
Stage Manger requires memory swapping
Air 5 runs Stage Manger but no memory swapping

You don't need to keep making stuff up to make yourself feels better. Apple just doesn't care ipad pro 2020 users (may bought from Apple store in 2021) feeling.

Can YOU read? You have NO evidence that the Air 5 has no memory swapping. It's clear you don't even know what memory swap and virtual memory is.

I'll put it really simply for you. Are you ready? Read it slowly:

The iPad Air 5 64GB is capable of virtual memory/memory swapping.

 

[babyexercise]

I'll have to keep repeating myself then. You have no evidence that there will be no virtual memory on the 64GB iPad Air 5. There is only evidence that apps won't be able to request virtual memory. It's entirely possible that some virtual memory may be used by iPadOS to keep the apps currently open in stage manager from reloading, without allowing the apps themselves to go over their normal RAM limits.

Memory swapping is not simply virtual memory, if only virtual memory is required, basically all ipads in these few years can run it, and thats why Apple has a hidden mode for older ipads. Apple just doesn't want to turn it on to hurt it's profit.

 

[xayide]

And the 4th gen iPad Pro can only support up to 4k/30. Not 5k, not 6k. So nothing Apple currently sells. It would be painful to watch people trying to connect to the Studio Display with their 2020 iPads and come to the conclusion it can't.

iPad Pro 2020 happily fills 5120x2160p with 60hz in jump desktop and citrix so 5k@60 it will do!

 

[teh_hunterer]

Memory swapping is not simply virtual memory, if only virtual memory is required, basically all ipads in these few years can run it, and thats why Apple has a hidden mode for older ipads. Apple just doesn't want to turn it on to hurt it's profit.

Ok, I'm done. You can't read English properly.

The iPad Air 5 is capable of memory swapping, and you've got no evidence that it isn't. Bye bye

 

[babyexercise]

Ok, I'm done. You can't read English properly.

The iPad Air 5 is capable of memory swapping, and you've got no evidence that it isn't. Bye bye

iPad Air 5 64GB model will not include iPadOS 16 virtual memory swap feature

Will still have the Stage Manager feature. Apple recently announced two new features coming to the M1 iPads with the upcoming iPadOS 16 update. This...

www.gsmarena.com

So news like this are all fake? I am impressed by your logical thinking lol xd

 

[teh_hunterer]

iPad Air 5 64GB model will not include iPadOS 16 virtual memory swap feature

Will still have the Stage Manager feature. Apple recently announced two new features coming to the M1 iPads with the upcoming iPadOS 16 update. This...

www.gsmarena.com

So news like this are all fake? I am impressed by your logical thinking lol xd

As was explained to you over and over, you're misinterpreting the news. You simply can't grasp the explanations.

Just because apps can't request the swap file, doesn't mean stage manager can't use the swap file. Go read the actual source the news is using rather than just the headline.

 

[darngooddesign]

...Might also ask about, if I recall correctly, one of the lower-end iPads with an M chip that doesn't have that swap memory. As this is a casual discussion here, I would say I would much rather see Apple simply say that they the best showing of this feature is by optimizing for the M chip architecture and that would be okay.

Swap needs a 128GB or larger drive. The 64GB Air doesn't get swap because Apple, Im assuming, predicted there's not going to be enough free space. Larger iPads would be the same way if they are almost full and the experience would probably be laggy, but more people probably have enough free space on the larger capacity iPads.

 

[babyexercise]

As was explained to you over and over, you're misinterpreting the news. You simply can't grasp the explanations.

Just because apps can't request the swap file, doesn't mean stage manager can't use the swap file. Go read the actual source the news is using rather than just the headline.

I have read all and it is what I said many times

Apple said Stage Manager requests memory swapping, but M1 Air does not have it still can run Stage Manager.

It is what it is, what are you trying to say? Every news says this fact, you don't like then you believe whatever you like.

 

[darngooddesign]

People will always complain regardless, but if Apple had stayed silent...

The articles are about WWDC and such interviews. Apple was just answering questions which is what you do in an interview. How would it have looked if Apple tried to change the subject after this question?

 

[darngooddesign]

I have read all and it is what I said many times

Apple said Stage Manager requests memory swapping, but M1 Air does not have it still can run Stage Manager.

It is what it is, what are you trying to say? Every news says this fact, you don't like then you believe whatever you like.

The M1Air has swap memory. People are easily getting away with 8GB RAM instead of 16GB on the new Macs in the way they never could with the same Intel Mac because the M1 is so fast and efficient.

Stage Manager on Ventura is just an app-switcher/window-manager, just like Mission Control, Expose, and Spaces are, because the OS already handles swap memory and windows.

 

[babyexercise]

The M1Air has swap memory. People are easily getting away with 8GB RAM instead of 16GB on the new Macs in the way they never could with the same Intel Mac because the M1 is so fast and efficient.

Stage Manager on Ventura is just an app-switcher/window-manager, just like Mission Control, Expose, and Spaces are, because the OS already handles swap memory and windows.

I explained everything with links and benchmarks, again and again you guys keep talking with zero link zero benchmark,just pure from your imagination. You can dream anything you like, but Air 5 has no swapping memory still run Stage Manager, there is a hidden mode to let all old ipads run Stage Manager just Apple does not like to active it, there are facts. You guys can continue to dream with typing.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I have read all and it is what I said many times

Apple said Stage Manager requests memory swapping, but M1 Air does not have it still can run Stage Manager.

It is what it is, what are you trying to say? Every news says this fact, you don't like then you believe whatever you like.

Again, you're wrong. The news is saying the iPad Air 5 has no memory swap because Apple's site says apps won't get access to memory swap on the 64GB version.

That doesn't mean that iPadOS itself can't use memory swap to run Stage Manager.

It means that apps developed for iPadOS16 won't be able to request access to virtual memory on the iPad Air 5 64GB, not that this iPad or the SSD inside it isn't capable of memory swap.

As I said, look beyond the headline.

 

[dukebound85]

Apple needs to stop justifying this and stick to its guns.

People were screaming for a reason to have M1 when iPadOS didn't need that kind of HP. Now that its here, those same people are moaning those reasons make them upgrade.

You don't get to have it both ways.

get real

my 2006 mbp with 512mb memory could have multiple windows/expose/virtual spaces, etc easily

 

[R!TTER]

How would it have looked if Apple tried to change the subject after this question?

Something like this?

Spoiler

What they've done here is no better! Android phones with as little as 32GB storage are having this feature right now, I'm sure the real geniuses at Apple know to make it work but the bean counters probably wouldn't let them.

 

[aevan]

Can you read?
Stage Manger requires memory swapping
Air 5 runs Stage Manger but no memory swapping

Can you? I literally explained this to you.

Edit: so have others, people like @teh_hunterer. You either really can’t comprehend this or you’re trolling, so we should end this.

 

[pacalis]

Some people equates performance with CPU performance.

The problem with A12X and A12Z is not the CPU and probably not the GPU performance either. It's the RAM and the file I/O which is the problem.

Some companies too. It's Apple that linked it to the M1 not me.

On the design of stage manager, they have basically claimed that combo of specs on the A12Z is gimped after touting its incredible capabilities a year earlier. That's why people are trying to interpret the tea leaves here.

What was the memory requirement for Fortnite on iPad?

4GB min but they say that only gets you 60fps. They recommend 8GB and a 2GB video card. Regardless, I have a much more powerful PC and it huffs and puffs and blows the house down for 120fps at a similar res. My point is that of the two positions that Apple has taken on the A12X ipad, I believe it is a remarkable kit and they fell down on development of stage manager.

 

[pacalis]

We are understanding it perfectly.

You shouldn't expect to get any particular new feature on existing hardware. Even if it was only 1 hour since you bought it. Unless explicitly promised to you by Apple.

What you absolutely should expect is you won't get new features you want.

I think you should slow your horses here.

The whole point of WWDC is to add software features to existing hardware.

Implicitly (sure, not explicitly and not particularly) Apple has conditioned consumers to expect that new software will generally serve several generations of computing hardware. It's part of Apple's value proposition that their pro hardware is capable well into the future. That's part of why we pay more for Apple products and why they depreciate less.

I don't think this issue is about stage manager specifically. Honestly, I think people weren't really expecting this and probably were more interested in file management. What I think this raises is what's going on with Apple's hardware pipeline, their hardware support and also why they're dragging heals on the ipad pros as a general purpose computing device.

 

[Fox_Vulpez]

First make sure your windows laptop has 4 GB of RAM. Then open 8 very large apps that use >2 GB each. Then see if a sweat is broken. Bonus points for putting in an SSD that matches the A12X iPad's SSD performance.



Of course an A15 could run Stage Manager in a "limited fashion". I think the idea here is that Apple thinks non M1s can't run the *same* features with Stage Manager, thus they don't want to implement it. I don't think anyone thinks they couldn't strip features out of it until it worked (e.g. pare it down to 3 apps maximum like slide over/split view).

You’re pushing to absurdity when trying to prove a point.

My laptop now has 16 GB of RAM, however I’ve once had to use my laptop with 4 GB of RAM because I gave my previous 8 GB stick to my friend before I received my ordered 16 GB stick.

That laptop were usable for college usage. I could still multitask fine with Excel, Adobe Acrobat, Word, Matlab, VirtualBox running win XP and 20 tabs of chrome. Which is what I consider as a reasonable amount of multitasking for most college student.

My laptop SATA SSD only goes 250 MB/s at write and 350 MB/s in read. My 256 GB A12X iPad Pro on the other hand can write at 1 GB/s and read at 2 GB/s.

I don’t buy the argument that multi-window multitasking requires M1, 2 GB/s SSD, and 8 GB of RAM. Because my laptop manages to do more with less resources.

 

[pacalis]

I don’t buy the argument that multi-window multitasking requires M1, 2 GB/s SSD, and 8 GB of RAM. Because my laptop manages to do more with less resources.

Um, correction, SO MUCH more with less resources....

 

[darngooddesign]

I explained everything with links and benchmarks, again and again you guys keep talking with zero link zero benchmark,just pure from your imagination. You can dream anything you like, but Air 5 has no swapping memory still run Stage Manager, there is a hidden mode to let all old ipads run Stage Manager just Apple does not like to active it, there are facts. You guys can continue to dream with typing.

Prove your point. Show us a video of a non-M1 iPad running Stage Manager well.

Until then that "hidden mode" is theoretical proof.

The 64GB Air5 runs Stage Manager without swap while the 256Gb Air5 runs Stage Manager with Swap.

 

[blackcrayon]

You’re pushing to absurdity when trying to prove a point.



I don’t buy the argument that multi-window multitasking requires M1, 2 GB/s SSD, and 8 GB of RAM. Because my laptop manages to do more with less resources.

Speaking of pushing absurdity, you're ignoring all of the important points to "prove" a strawman.

No one thinks that a "computer" can't run a multi-window multitasking system without the latest CPU. What we do think is that, on the iPadOS platform, there are popular apps that, if were to open 8 of them, would kill the performance of a machine (or force the OS to kill the apps themselves) with 4 GB of RAM. Why is that so hard to understand? Apple even enabled virtual memory swap files, something they have had on Macs but never on iOS, just because they felt there would be too much memory pressure even on (8 GB minimum) M1 iPads! And yet you think it would run just fine on (all else equal) devices with 1/2 - 1/4 of the RAM and i/o resources.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Amazing how many ‘newbies’ suddenly appear on threads like this.

Well I mean, folks should be free to provide their hot takes without having their main accounts suspended!

 

[cupcakes2000]

Speaking of pushing absurdity, you're ignoring all of the important points to "prove" a strawman.

No one thinks that a "computer" can't run a multi-window multitasking system without the latest CPU. What we do think is that, on the iPadOS platform, there are popular apps that, if were to open 8 of them, would kill the performance of a machine (or force the OS to kill the apps themselves) with 4 GB of RAM. Why is that so hard to understand? Apple even enabled virtual memory swap files, something they have had on Macs but never on iOS, just because they felt there would be too much memory pressure even on (8 GB minimum) M1 iPads! And yet you think it would run just fine on (all else equal) devices with 1/2 - 1/4 of the RAM and i/o resources.

You’re conflating stuff. Normal proceedings for a traditional system is multitasking. The iPad, specifically the a series chips don’t work like that. The is has NEVER been about that. This is a push into traditional system way of doing things, but with the iPadOS way of doing things. It stands very much to reason that the A series chips within the non m1 iPad are constrained a bit. The architecture has never been about this kind of multitasking until the m1.

Edit: sorry I think I quoted the wrong person 😂

 

[r_mack]

Stage Manager is a partial implementation of window management. It seems gimmicky. I have an M1 iPad Pro. Not really interested in this. Give me full MacOS window management or nothing.

 

[landi.erik]

Well I mean, folks should be free to provide their hot takes without having their main accounts suspended!

I give you one better… Users should be forced to put their real names on their user profiles… half the problem is that there is no real accountability on these types of forums, so the trolls and flat out argumentative factions in the Apple camp feel they can be rude and negate other’s opinions.

On the other hand people like me who want to see Apple thrive and not be stagnant in both a hardware and software sense get proverbially crapped on for offering middle grounds or clear arguments.

Now I’m not sure how many claiming the M1 is needed actually own the device. But let’s say 18 months down the line Apple finally adds Multi-User support or other core OS functionality but says “hey we need more RAM and storage resources” so we can hold both sets of users apps in RAM only available for M2. How many of you minimizing A-Series owners would be pissed yourselves 🤷‍♂️?

MacBook Pro owners expect at least 2 years of OS feature parity in their products, why can’t iPad Pro owners expect the same? I paid a premium on top of the standard experience so the product could last longer with the higher specs.

What’s the next argument, “oh well since I waited for M-Series processors I should be supported” again we are back in the same boat as now.

When it comes to OS functionality this should be pretty universal across iPads, what differentiates the models should be 1.Speed of function 2. Extended functionality built on the core OS (think the Camera app across iPhones are the same but features like LiDAR require the added sensor) “ 3. Physical design 4. Availability of Accessories.

Also that’s my real name and picture so I stand by opinions. And continue to push forward that this conversation is a good thing and at least helps raise awareness for longevity of products.

P.S. MR member since 07’ 😉