Apple Tested Stage Manager on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied

[visualseed]

Here's some homework for anyone who's complaining about this: Write some code that loads a few GBs of data into RAM, draw the data, and animate it from a tiny thumbnail to fullscreen. Report back on how you solved all the performance bottlenecks. Then you can critique Apple all you want!

Gigabytes of stuff in memory is not necessarily the point. If swapping works at all, it should work on an iPad Pro with 6Gb of ram with maybe just some upper limit on per-app memory that is just a little lower. (Apple will even allow 16GB of app memory on devices that only have 8Gb of ram) But here is the weird thing. Apple doesn't support virtual memory swapping on the base storage model of the M1 iPad Air because 64Gb of storage is too small, but this model seems to run Stage Manager without limitation. So, the question becomes, is app swapping really necessary for Stage Manager or is it really something else that makes it possible? Nobody is doubting there is a performance hit. Many of us are just questioning the actual reason for it and speculating that what Apple finds unacceptable, may actually be tolerable, even usable, if implemented with some constraints.

 

[blackcrayon]

Apple is having it both ways on talking about their hardware.

Apple told us that their 2018 chip (A12X) was so fast and capable that it didn't need much improvement in 2020 (A12Z) and now all the sudden, class leading hardware (A12Z) in 2020 can't run some seemingly minor 2022 implementation that makes the ipad a little more able to substitute for a macbook.

I think people are living in a time of reduced trust and now Apple seems to be making up stuff that doesn't seem to make sense.

No, it makes perfect sense given the technical explanation that Apple and about 3261 people on the forums gave. Now, Apple could make a feature reduced version of Stage Manager for old iPads. If there is any argument at all to be had, it would be there. Whether they want to have 2 separate sets of capabilities- people realizing they can only drag over 3 apps on one display instead of four on two.

 

[pacalis]

No, it makes perfect sense given the technical explanation that Apple and about 3261 people on the forums gave. Now, Apple could make a feature reduced version of Stage Manager for old iPads. If there is any argument at all to be had, it would be there. Whether they want to have 2 separate sets of capabilities- people realizing they can only drag over 3 apps on one display instead of four on two.

If you buy the 3261 technical explanations, it means that the earlier claims Apple made about its hardware were not true, or at least highly exaggerated.

That's what I mean by them having it both ways. That erodes trust.

 

[Jim Lahey]

🤥

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

Apple needs to stop justifying this and stick to its guns.

People were screaming for a reason to have M1 when iPadOS didn't need that kind of HP. Now that its here, those same people are moaning those reasons make them upgrade.

You don't get to have it both ways.

Stay tuned. You're going to hear the same thing said about Intel Macs very soon. Wait for it.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

It's funny, the same company that could do overlapping windows back in 1983 with a 5MHz 68000 and 2MB RAM can't do overlapping windows in 2022 with a 2.9GHz A15 and 4GB RAM.

Or, you know, they're just lying.

(It's the lying.)

 

[yogeewan]

I can't believe there are people supporting apples move here. This kind of multi tasking has been around for what 35-40 years on desktops, ever since GUI layers took over?

And apple feels that giving an experience of multi-tasking (external displays is a separate issue as far as I am concerned, if that is gimped for older iPads, it makes sense because of the need to power an external interface etc. etc.) to older iPads is somehow not satisfactory?

Like even the crappiest macOS / windows / unix / linux distros from the 90s could support smooth multi-tasking on the most primitive of hardware.

Apple really dropped the ball on this one in terms of giving users a better multi-tasking interface in iPadOS. If stage manager was it, then it should be something so easily deployable on any of their iPad hardware, and I am even talking the first iPad considering it came out at a point where a multi-tasking interface on highly inferior hardware was still a de-facto feature of the OS.

 

[forrealagain]

A lot of comments here and maybe someone mentioned this already. I think the key is the part of the quote about customers expecting instant access from a touch interface. I see many comments about people opening windows on 30 year old computers, but what they seem to forget is often they were slow to open. The average consumer that uses an iPad likely uses an iPhone. Things are instant on both. There is no delay. Perhaps this is the defining factor that they were not satisfied with. I do agree that it sucks, but we can’t get everything we want all the time and I guarantee you the tech crowd would rip the feature to shreds if it slowly opened apps.

 

[Bustycat]

Because we want to sell more expensive models, we decided not to optimize for non-M1 iPads.

 

[Aldaris]

I’d just like the 2018 and 2020 pros to have full screen for external displays. Is there a limitation to them doing that?

Seriously-an iPad docking solution would be sweet.

It can already output video to an external display-why is it stuck to the iPad screen ratio.

 

[ratspg]

I can't believe there are people supporting apples move here. This kind of multi tasking has been around for what 35-40 years on desktops, ever since GUI layers took over?

And apple feels that giving an experience of multi-tasking (external displays is a separate issue as far as I am concerned, if that is gimped for older iPads, it makes sense because of the need to power an external interface etc. etc.) to older iPads is somehow not satisfactory?

Like even the crappiest macOS / windows / unix / linux distros from the 90s could support smooth multi-tasking on the most primitive of hardware.

Apple really dropped the ball on this one in terms of giving users a better multi-tasking interface in iPadOS. If stage manager was it, then it should be something so easily deployable on any of their iPad hardware, and I am even talking the first iPad considering it came out at a point where a multi-tasking interface on highly inferior hardware was still a de-facto feature of the OS.

Don’t waste your time. People here don’t understand, or just don’t want to understand. Everybody wants to step on top of each other and prove THEY are the right ones. This thread is a great example of that.

 

[visualseed]

A lot of comments here and maybe someone mentioned this already. I think the key is the part of the quote about customers expecting instant access from a touch interface. I see many comments about people opening windows on 30 year old computers, but what they seem to forget is often they were slow to open. The average consumer that uses an iPad likely uses an iPhone. Things are instant on both. There is no delay. Perhaps this is the defining factor that they were not satisfied with. I do agree that it sucks, but we can’t get everything we want all the time and I guarantee you the tech crowd would rip the feature to shreds if it slowly opened apps.

Maybe Apple is turning over a new leaf because Apple in the past had no issues releasing iOS updates for old devices that slowed them to a crawl. I'm not saying I disagree with Apple wanting to provide an optimal user experience. I just don't agree with their technical reasoning and worry that arbitrary thinly-veiled "we just don't want to" excuses are sending otherwise good and expensive hardware into premature obsolescence. A top-end iPad Pro not supporting a marquee feature of a new OS after only 2 years on market is a little absurd when you step back and think about it. Will my M1 iPad Pro be obsolete in a year after only receiving one productivity focused iOS update because Apple didn't feel it was powerful enough for the next feature?

 

[HaddockW]

I wonder if the M1 limitation is mostly due to the external display support. I'm guessing Stage Manager would work fine on an iPad Pro with 6GB of RAM, but the experience could be subpar when plugging into a 6K display.

Running Ventura on my MBP, I found that I personally don't care for Stage Manager. I agree with Craig that it's an arrow in a quiver of multitasking tools you have access to on macOS. When the majority of iPad users own the base iPad or older, I don't imagine a lot of people actually using this feature. I'm more curious as to why SM is one of the first main features to be software-locked, you'd think Apple would lock away some dual-boot macOS or FCP for iPad Pro M1...

I posted a link in another thread. According to Apple's documentation, 4th gen and non M1 iPads cannot do more thabn 4k/30. So in short, only M1s can technically connect to current Apple shipping monitors - 5k Studio Display and 6k XDR. I have my iPad M1 11 inch connected to a OWC Thunderbolt 4 hub, connected to a LG 5K, and Samsung Thunderbolt 3 drives along with ethernet. A non M1 iPad cannot do that nor have that experience. Ability to edit LumaFusion pulling files of a SAN or TB34 drive; driving a 5K display. So yeah, the experience for older iPads will be supbar if they can only connect to 1080p for expanded view and 4K for mirror.

 

[HaddockW]

Yes. Also, USB-C to Thunderbolt seems a fairly minor difference for this purpose (20 vs. 40 gbps max). Like this needs an additional 10 or 20 gbsp? Or maybe its 20.1 gbsp? And what, how fast does the ssd have to be for this all to work?

It's not very believable. At least they didn't tell us that the fedex guy was late, dogs eat all the 2019 ipad pro cables and Tim's grandmother was is in the hospital so they won't be able to get the development done.

20 gbps is not enough to connect to a 5K or 6k display.

 

[visualseed]

20 gbps is not enough to connect to a 5K or 6k display.

iPad Air M1 seems to be doing 6K/60 over USB-C and Apple claims that is only a 10/Gbs connection.

 

[chrono1081]

Apple needs to stop justifying this and stick to its guns.

People were screaming for a reason to have M1 when iPadOS didn't need that kind of HP. Now that its here, those same people are moaning those reasons make them upgrade.

You don't get to have it both ways.

I can't agree with this take. People literally bought iPads that are less than a year old that can't support features of the latest OS. This is on Apple 100%.

While I get there is a limitation for extended displays, the multitasking feature portion is absolutely able to be brought to all the current iPads and should be because it's a huge quality of life improvement.

People buy iPads because they get such long usage out of them, not being able to run all the features on iPads released 8 months ago is just pathetic.

 

[Ashbash75]

Yeah, I'm not satisfied either. Love my 12" iPP form factor but I just can't get on with iPadOS. Back to a windows tablet I go. I've realised I need a desktop. It's a been an interesting ride. Loved my Acer Travelmate C100 back in the day.

 

[Loismustdie1]

I can't agree with this take. People literally bought iPads that are less than a year old that can't support features of the latest OS. This is on Apple 100%.

While I get there is a limitation for extended displays, the multitasking feature portion is absolutely able to be brought to all the current iPads and should be because it's a huge quality of life improvement.

People buy iPads because they get such long usage out of them, not being able to run all the features on iPads released 8 months ago is just pathetic.

So then buy a tablet that meets your needs then. The 2018/2020 iPads didn’t stop working when iPadOS 16 was announced. In fact, it’s still supported! If Stage Manager is that important to your workflow, then get a device that will appropriately support that feature. Otherwise, keep using your iPad as you did before. It really is that simple. K? K!

 

[steve09090]

I can't agree with this take. People literally bought iPads that are less than a year old that can't support features of the latest OS. This is on Apple 100%.

While I get there is a limitation for extended displays, the multitasking feature portion is absolutely able to be brought to all the current iPads and should be because it's a huge quality of life improvement.

People buy iPads because they get such long usage out of them, not being able to run all the features on iPads released 8 months ago is just pathetic.

How old the device is, is of no relevance. You don’t buy an iPhone SE and expect it to be the same as on iPhone Pro Max. And you don't buy a non M1 iPad and expect it to run the same as an M1 iPad.

Did you know, for example, that an iPad or iPhone that doesn’t have LiDAR, can’t use the LiDAR functionality?

This thread has become inundated with religious viewpoints on Apple. Yawn….

 

[chrono1081]

So then buy a tablet that meets your needs then. The 2018/2020 iPads didn’t stop working when iPadOS 16 was announced. In fact, it’s still supported! If Stage Manager is that important to your workflow, then get a device that will appropriately support that feature. Otherwise, keep using your iPad as you did before. It really is that simple. K? K!

What part of "8 month old device" are you not understanding?

 

[chrono1081]

How old the device is, is of no relevance. You don’t buy an iPhone SE and expect it to be the same as on iPhone Pro Max. And you don't buy a non M1 iPad and expect it to run the same as an M1 iPad.

Did you know, for example, that an iPad or iPhone that doesn’t have LiDAR, can’t use the LiDAR functionality?

This thread has become inundated with religious viewpoints on Apple. Yawn….

I explained a perfectly valid complaint and now you resort to petty belittlement?

 

[JimmyHook]

Just a fact here. In the end, Apple will sell billions of dollars worth of iPads anyway. So this “controversy” is absolutely meaningless

 

[JimmyHook]

Also, “forum engineers” crack me up. Everyone pretends like it would be soooo easy. Lol.

 

[steve09090]

I explained a perfectly valid complaint and now you resort to petty belittlement?

It’s a complaint, but it ignores the issue. A car manufacturer can make a car and leave out certain features, yet offer it in a different, more expensive model. You don’t get to use the cheaper model and then demand that you should have access to the entire package.

As far as belittlement goes, I never did. I just think that people need to stop complaining about every little thing and get on with their lives. Apple never promised this in the previous OS, so why do you now expect it?

 

[chrono1081]

It’s a complaint, but it ignores the issue. A car manufacturer can make a car and leave out certain features, yet offer it in a different, more expensive model. You don’t get to use the cheaper model and then demand that you should have access to the entire package.

As far as belittlement goes, I never did. I just think that people need to stop complaining about every little thing and get on with their lives. Apple never promised this in the previous OS, so why do you now expect it?

I'm not ignoring the issue at all. Stage Manager is a huge part of iPadOS 16 and finally does something about iPadOSs not great multitasking. While it's understandable that not all iPads can run separate apps on external displays, the multitasking feature on a single iPad is 110% doable period, end of story and it should be available on all brand new iPads. Why you're trying to argue that is beyond me.

People are pissed, rightfully so, and Apple needs to do something about it. A less than year old product should be getting all the updates. I'm not sure why that is so hard for you to grasp I really don't.