Apple Tested Stage Manager on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied

[aevan]

I think they weren't satisfied no one would be upgrading

No, they weren't satisfied of the performance.

You do realize almost no one will upgrade because of this? And that it's better for Apple's iPad business to make the best iPads they can so that more people replace their laptops with iPads.

They did not do it to force people to upgrade. Not because they are super-caring, but because it wouldn't be in their interest in the long run. Also, they do take pride in their work. They want to make great products. If they say they wanted to put this feature on other iPads and they weren't satisfied with it - I believe them. Because it makes sense.

 

[visualseed]

This stuff worked back in the days when hard drives spun, memory was measured in megabytes, and CPUs were still only 32-bit.

 

[Joe Dohn]

You do realize almost no one will upgrade because of this? And that it's better for Apple's iPad business to make the best iPads they can so that more people replace their laptops with iPads.

I'm definitely taking a close watch on Apple. If they keep with this behavior next year, my next devices might be non-Apple. I'm almost regretting I didn't get a Cintiq. Some people are already wary on upgrading to the next low-budget Apple model because of that, and for good reason.

 

[visualseed]

Before the MC68020 no Mac had virtual memory and was the reason the Mac was not a multitasking device. After that point in time that chip offered paged memory management, and thus, virtual swap memory. (And even then, the Mac only supported cooperative multitasking and some apps needed manual tuning to their memory allocation.)

The A-series SoCs do not support paged memory management (because these were designed for high efficiency mobile devices as it takes/wastes a lot of energy to swap code back and forth from memory to storage.), and so multitasking is limited to freezing apps and flushing them from memory when memory is needed elsewhere. This is why persistent state is so pervasive and important in iOS.

The M1 SoCs have paged memory management which was absolutely needed for more memory intensive applications, and therefor can have more applications "open" if needed.

None of this would be "weird" to anyone who knew anything about the subject.

"Ignorance always comes with a big mouth."

Paged memory support could not have just arrived in the M1 because macOS ran on the A12z on the DTK. Now, there might be other hardware and software components that enable this on the M1 iPads that aren't present on the early models, but the CPU itself should support it.

 

[d686546s]

Before the MC68020 no Mac had virtual memory and was the reason the Mac was not a multitasking device. After that point in time that chip offered paged memory management, and thus, virtual swap memory. (And even then, the Mac only supported cooperative multitasking and some apps needed manual tuning to their memory allocation.)

The A-series SoCs do not support paged memory management (because these were designed for high efficiency mobile devices as it takes/wastes a lot of energy to swap code back and forth from memory to storage.), and so multitasking is limited to freezing apps and flushing them from memory when memory is needed elsewhere. This is why persistent state is so pervasive and important in iOS.

The M1 SoCs have paged memory management which was absolutely needed for more memory intensive applications, and therefor can have more applications "open" if needed.

None of this would be "weird" to anyone who knew anything about the subject.

"Ignorance always comes with a big mouth."

If this is an absolute hardware limitation, how was the A12Z able to run multitasking in MacOS?

 

[JM]

Then TWEAK THE THING until you're satisfied!!!

You roll out a whole bunch of things that stutter, crash, and burst into flames, and now suddenly you care about customer experience?

Well, other than the bursting into flames part, yah nailed it on the other stuff.

 

[saudor]

I'm definitely taking a close watch on Apple. If they keep with this behavior next year, my next devices might be non-Apple. I'm almost regretting I didn't get a Cintiq. Some people are already wary on upgrading to the next low-budget Apple model because of that, and for good reason.

Windows isn't all that better these days though. With Win10, it could easily be run on a 2006 hardware. With 11, this requirement is 2018 and higher - almost the same reqs as macOS/iOS. Yeah technically A11 (2017) and 2017 intel can run the latest Apple OS but it basically gets no features.

Apple is currently hell bent on dropping any and every non M1-based device.

 

[MNGR]

I'm with ya. Specifically, I want proper background multi-tasking and multi-user support.

At this point, I think Apple is getting a bit twisted up in trying to invent a new GUI paradigm and they've lost sight of an OS should really be.

So what you really want is a MB, not an iPad

 

[steve09090]

If this is an absolute hardware limitation, how was the A12Z able to run multitasking in MacOS?

Isn’t it because whilst it worked on pre M1, it wasn’t a fluid experience? Apple has always said that it will not compromise the user experience. If it doesn’t work 100% then it won’t be on that device.

Whilst the A12Z could run multitasking, it was a development tool, not a smooth experience at all. Apple never released an A12Z Mac Mini to retail customers.

 

[rui no onna]

Buyer's Guide: 11" iPad Pro (Don't Buy), 12.9" iPad Pro (Caution)

huh? Arent the 11 and 12.9 usually updated at the same time? Shouldn't they both be "don't buy"?

The Pro 9.7 was released March 2016 and the 1st gen Pro 12.9 was released November 2015. That difference skews the average days between releases.

 

[Realityck]

No, they weren't satisfied of the performance.
You do realize almost no one will upgrade because of this? And that it's better for Apple's iPad business to make the best iPads they can so that more people replace their laptops with iPads.

IMHO I don't look at iPads ever as a replacement, but a unique Apple product that extends what I like to do on an Apple tablet. There was all this discussion/hope that iPadOS would improve the GUI to something a bit more flexible with multitasking for iPadOS 15, yes we got side by side. Along comes iPadOS 16, and only the latest M1 based models support this new overlapping windows mode. So comparably pretty much all the recent Mac laptops/desktops can run this Stage Manager windows mode with Ventura as well as it being a full UNX with multitasking and no App Store restrictions with running apps from web based Mac software developers. Going to be real easy to say no now, if someone suggests replacing a Mac Laptop with a IPad. Instead use both is the safer bet from this point onward with this Apple software example.

 

[Joe Dohn]

Instead use both is the safer bet from this point onward.

Instead get a Cintiq instead of an iPad, since Apple selling you their iPads is their privilege, apparently.
I'm almost regretting buying an iPad due to this forum and getting a drawing tablet. At least I'd feel better supported.

 

[minik]

Wish Apple stop going into it on daily basis, just walk away.

 

[Krypton Deer]

Damage control continues. It doesn’t change the fact that A12Z/A12X can run it. We know it and they know we know it.

MacOS, Windows, ChromeOS, even Samsung Dex support free window size on puny aged processors while iOS requires M1 for this instantaneous app swap. Whatever.

I have saved my post messages and however many MacRumor articles are written for this subject, I’ll paste it again.

 

[visualseed]

IMHO I don't look at iPads ever as a replacement, but a unique Apple product that extends what I like to do on an Apple tablet. There was all this discussion/hope that iPadOS would improve the GUI to something a bit more flexible with multitasking for iPadOS 15, yes we got side by side. Along comes iPadOS 16, and only the latest M1 based models support this new overlapping windows mode. So comparably pretty much all the recent lMac laptops/desktops can run this Stage Manager windows mode with Ventura as well as it being a full UNX with multitasking and no App Store restrictions with running apps from web based Mac software developers. Going to be real easy to say no now, if someone suggests replacing a Mac Laptop with a IPad. Instead use both is the safer bet from this point onward.

I made a bet last year that iPadOS was going to grow into the hardware and bought an M1 iPad Pro. Nothing about what was shipping in iPadOS 14 or 15 justified it. In fact, all of those features ran on previous models just fine. Fortunately, I was rewarded (somewhat, as these really aren't paradigm shifting features) with iOS 16, but I do see the writing on the wall that new OS features may be tied to a narrower window of supported hardware in the future. And the advancement of the OS itself is very slow. For that reason I will never myself buy or recommend someone else buy an iPad unless the desired OS features are currently shipping and support it. Unlike macOS that even several versions ago is still completely usable. iPad OS still has a lot of room to grow before it reaches the same state and it is a bigger bet on the future that your device will support the OS or features that makes it "usable" and "productive" for you.

 

[Krypton Deer]

I can't recall Apple ever doing a PR tour making excuses like this.
There are a lot of upset folks w/ 2020 iPad Pro's - I have two, but not really that upset. I use an iPad as a tablet - I have too many computers to care.
But for others... I totally understand...

It’s a business decision - why can’t they just say that?

To AAPL PR team monitoring forums: those who bought M1 won’t upgrade anytime soon. A12X/A12Z owners are your immediate target customers for M2/M3 iPads. Why piss them off?

 

[citysnaps]

Who the hell ever said that? Not supporting a few new features does not mean the new OS is going "suck" on older hardware. Is this the narrative that is causing so much complaining? Nor are any of these features a "must have" that will "force" people to upgrade.

This is the entitled world we live in today. If I can't have it [for free], then NO ONE SHOULD [even if they pay for it]!!!!

Spot on analysis!

 

[StuBeck]

Its dumb. Apple does this all the time, just look at how an S5 can't use the same watch faces as an S6 despite having the same hardware. I'm not sure why they keep on explaining this when we know why they did it, to sell more M1 iPads.

 

[locksmack]

Noting that Stage Manager would have been in development for probably years, Apple purposely released the iPad Mini 6 knowing ahead of time that it wouldn't support Stage Manager.

They can't make the 'old hardware' claim when it comes to the Mini 6.

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

Wish Apple stop going into it on daily basis, just walk away.

Unfortunately, that’s not Apple’s
Style. They will make sure you are convinced.

 

[CarlJ]

You roll out a whole bunch of things that stutter, crash, and burst into flames, and now suddenly you care about customer experience?

Sorry, which "whole bunch" of Apple products "burst into flames"? Please cite specific examples where, say, hundreds or thousands of some specific Apple product burst into flames (one or two out of tens of millions produced would very much not qualify as a "whole bunch").

 

[Abazigal]

It’s a business decision - why can’t they just say that?

To AAPL PR team monitoring forums: those who bought M1 won’t upgrade anytime soon. A12X/A12Z owners are your immediate target customers for M2/M3 iPads. Why piss them off?

Well, I am not pissed off.

Not at Apple anyways.

 

[blackcrayon]

Wish Apple stop going into it on daily basis, just walk away.

Apple is doing interviews where people are asking them about it, and Macrumors reported it. I don't think this is Apple going into it just to bother you on macrumors. Imagine if they refused to talk about it with interviewers.

 

[v0lume4]

More like

Apple Looked at Profit Margins on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied​

Haha. I don’t work at Apple, I honestly can’t say whether this feature would have worked on non-M1 iPads or not. I don’t claim to know. But I really don’t trust a word Apple says when it comes to this kind of stuff. Their track record has too many examples of planned obsolescence/hardware locked features for me to think otherwise.

 

[darngooddesign]

Before the MC68020 no Mac had virtual memory and was the reason the Mac was not a multitasking device. After that point in time that chip offered paged memory management, and thus, virtual swap memory. (And even then, the Mac only supported cooperative multitasking and some apps needed manual tuning to their memory allocation.)

The A-series SoCs do not support paged memory management (because these were designed for high efficiency mobile devices as it takes/wastes a lot of energy to swap code back and forth from memory to storage.), and so multitasking is limited to freezing apps and flushing them from memory when memory is needed elsewhere. This is why persistent state is so pervasive and important in iOS.

The M1 SoCs have paged memory management which was absolutely needed for more memory intensive applications, and therefor can have more applications "open" if needed.

None of this would be "weird" to anyone who knew anything about the subject.

"Ignorance always comes with a big mouth."

Let me preface my question with I believe Apple and don't believe they were being nefarious. How does that apply to the A12 that was running MacOS in the M1 Mini developer's kit?