Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It might be painful for the user to wait until the developer of their favorite app gets around to recompiled ... Not sure how good/fast a intel-rosetta environment would work on the arm processor.

Not well at all. It was fine for PowerPC->x86 because the x86 was the faster processor; an x86 at twice the speed runs PowerPC code written for a processor of half the speed just fine. If you moved from 1.4 GHz G4 single core to 1.83 GHz Core Duo your PowerPC code ran about as fast as before. Moving to ARM would be moving to a much slower processor; your x86 code would run quite badly.


I appreciate the response, so I assume ARM is less speedy then x86 due to its lack of attention to development? It sounds entirely more efficient design wise. I know ARM is known for it's battery life capabilities, will speeding that up compromise it's battery potential?

The market for ARM processors is low power, not-too-high performance devices, and it does very well at what it is designed to do. First I think ARM chips are running nowhere near the speed limit for a mostly unchanged device, but increasing the clock speed would mean much higher power consumption (double clock speed = four times the power, roughly). Intel has been working very hard to extract as many instructions per cycle as possible from their chips; that is hard work and uses up immense amount of transistors and therefore power. No doubt ARM could be changed to execute more instructions per cycle, but that would be lots of design work, lots of transistors, lots of power.

On the other hand, ARM processors are tiny and dirt cheap. I think it would be not too difficult to make an eight core design that is quite powerful when needed, with most of the cores powered down most of the time to save battery life.
 
Last edited:
If they do make a portable computer, that has as good form factor as my current Air, has an operating system that I can use with my current production software plus some more, not needing paying twice for that software, I could be interested. Otherwise, I couldn't care less for their "new exciting stuff".
 
This has to be some sort of hybrid Macbook/iPad device--there's absolutely no way that an iPad CPU can power a fully functional laptop. Now if you flipped the Macbook screen around to be flush with the back and it turned INTO an iPad...
 
This has to be some sort of hybrid Macbook/iPad device--there's absolutely no way that an iPad CPU can power a fully functional laptop.

Laptop CPUs weren't all that powerful back 8-10 years ago, yet we had full desktop environnments and did a lot of stuff with our computers.

Computing power has grown tremendously, but demand for such power grows at a much smaller pace. Computer hardware is pretty overpowered these days for most of what people want to do with computers.
 
And I'll have to disagree with you. Industry standard on what? X86? Yes. Not ARM. Thunderbolt will not be on a ARM based system, regardless of what you think, unless they get some licensing in on the deal.

Most of what you said was spot on. This part I have to disagree on. If Intel wants Thunderbolt to be an industry standard, then they need to license it to whomever wants to use it. No matter what processor will be in the system.
 
Please Apple, I think I can speak for all of us when I demand a 15" Air if you won't be shrinking the Pro (that is, nixing the SuperDrive once and for all and going over to SSD). That won't happen with ARM.
 
Laptop CPUs weren't all that powerful back 8-10 years ago, yet we had full desktop environnments and did a lot of stuff with our computers.

Computing power has grown tremendously, but demand for such power grows at a much smaller pace. Computer hardware is pretty overpowered these days for most of what people want to do with computers.

It is. In theory we could do with less indeed. HD video editing, image filtering, movie conversions, sound sampling, those all are tasks which require data packaging and can use computing power Many but not all people do that. But even the most basic software and operating system UI's are pretty demanding nowadays. Who knows if the reason for that is sloppy coding or cross-platform developer tools, but f.ex. 7 years old G4 would honestly be pretty bad to drive anything "modern", for the most of the people.

Yes, one could use an archaic user interface, but there is some reason, why people do not do their jobs with Emacs and Lynx any more. How essential those jobs or "updated convience "are for daily surviving is another matter. The more important matter is, one could use old software, but he would be out of sync with "the new world "in no time (browsers, banks and other services...) I am not saying, that everybody should buy the latest stuff, I am using relatively old computers myself, but there is a limit how far behind I can stay. Modern, supported software is the most important thing. And I like usability improvements too.
 
Last edited:
I think that it is precicely people's need and expectations which have grown. HD video editing, image filtering, movie conversions, sound sampling, those all are tasks which require data packaging and can use computing power.

Niche use.

Even the most basic software and operating system UI's are pretty demanding nowadays.

GPU based compositing.

Yes, one could use an archaic user interface, but there is some reason, why people do not do their jobs with Emacs and Lynx any more. How essential those jobs or "updated convience "are for daily surviving is another matter.

Interfaces have not change. Eye candy has, but then again, those are based off the GPU and are just compositing effects. The CPU is not hit hard at all for interface effects.
 
Niche use.
...
GPU based compositing.
...
Interfaces have not change. Eye candy has, but then again, those are based off the GPU and are just compositing effects. The CPU is not hit hard at all for interface effects.

You have a good point there. Now, when I think about it, that could be the reason, why GPU power is preferred instead of CPU power nowadays. Power consumption seems to be tha main target for CPU development. Which is not bad thing. 95 Watt cpus with massive cooling system are ridiculous nowadays. Major inconvenience, that extra heat and size and a bill.
 
Last edited:
If that ran a version of OSX that let me install my normal desktop applications I'd be all for it, even if it were less powerful--assuming it also significantly boosted battery life. The battery life and the glossy screen were the only things keeping me from an 11" MBA. Well, I guess the screen opening angle wasn't ideal for me, either. Still, this would be progress!
 
This is all about the future, so all those who are saying 'no way, an Arm chip is nowhere near fast enough' have completely missed the point:

Sales of desktops - going down
Sales of mobile devices (android and iOS devices) - going up
Cloud computing - on the increase
- along with a host of other changes like Google apps, increase in the use of social networking sites for businesses, the widespread acceptance of on-line purchasing of music, films and apps and the huge numbers of developers who are producing worthwhile and useful apps for smart phones and tablets.

Given that background, and the task of designing the computer that will be the 'next big thing' who in their right minds would start with an x86 chip and a damn big box?

The nature of computing is changing and we will all be using them differently in 5 years time. An Arm powered Apple laptop will just be a small part of that change. If you look at the way Apple sorted out their music business (ie creating an infrastructure based on the iPod, digital music files and the iTunes Store) my guess is that they are heading toward a similar setup - not just an Arm powered Air but a complete infrastructure which includes cloud storage, the App store and an integrated iOS/OS X.

It's not about Arm vs Intel. It's about what will happen in the future. Intel may decide to become part of it if they can get their act together (they've already admitted they've missed the mobile computing boat, despite having the capability to fab Arm processors - they even hold some Arm licenses for gawds sake).
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_8 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E401 Safari/6533.18.5)

I haven't read all the posts but I call BS. I don't believe there is any way to graft Thunderbolt, which is an extension of the PCIe bus, on to an ARM platform/SoC. No way.

While an ARM-based Mac may be possible, it's not going to run TB any time soon.

There are arm CPU with PCIe buses. So no problem there.
Remember one PA semi specialties was switch chips for PCIe networks.
They had extensive knowledge of tying PCIe to low power processors.

If anyone can got thunderbolt to work on Arm it's those guys. I say this in past tense as I assumed this happen many months ago but not publicly.
 
If I could downvote this idea I would.

This is starting to suck just as much as Lion (which doesn't feel like a real OS anymore, it simply feels like a closed limited system watered down for dumb people).

Switching to Ubuntu.
 
There are arm CPU with PCIe buses. So no problem there.
Remember one PA semi specialties was switch chips for PCIe networks.
They had extensive knowledge of tying PCIe to low power processors.

If anyone can got thunderbolt to work on Arm it's those guys. I say this in past tense as I assumed this happen many months ago but not publicly.
Does it have the bandwidth for the interconnect?
 
When Steve announced the Intel transition, he said OS X was designed to be CPU agnostic so they can switch without much difficulty. Steve is not all about PowerPC/Intel/ARM/MIPS/whatever, he is all about user experience.

More like all about profits and control.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8H7)

I'm thinking ARM alongside Intel, so with a touchscreen you can run the iOS apps when you want, or for a supremely low-power mode. A bit like Nvidia Optimus.
 
I hope that the post-Jobs era is more balanced.

More likely the next CEO will be tilted more toward milking the cash cow that Jobs leaves him or her. Companies are in the business of making money. Steve Jobs, as a founder who made a successful transition to big company CEO, is a bit different since he's more visionary. That's not to say Jobs is necessarily more consumer-focused than his successor, but up to this point, he's done a good job of predicting consumer tastes.
 
More likely the next CEO will be tilted more toward milking the cash cow that Jobs leaves him or her. Companies are in the business of making money. Steve Jobs, as a founder who made a successful transition to big company CEO, is a bit different since he's more visionary. That's not to say Jobs is necessarily more consumer-focused than his successor, but up to this point, he's done a good job of predicting consumer tastes.

This is quite possible. The next era of leadership may try resting on their laurels a bit more. I think I disagree with you about Jobs predicting consumer tastes. I think he actually created it and put in the consumers mind and convinced them that is what they wanted. The consumer didn't know what they wanted. The man is a marketing genius and has produced some high quality products. And the rest is history.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.