Apple Testing LTE in iOS 5 and Hiring More LTE Engineers

[Rocketman]

The LTE chipset that is believed to be the one that Apple plans on using for the iPhone is the upcoming Qualcomm MDM9615. That chipset was announced in February and is said to start "sampling" in late 2011.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/13199396/

Discusses different chipsets:

The new chipsets will support LTE Category 4, offering up to 150 Mbps downlink data rates and 50 Mbps uplink data rates. Other standards supported by the MDM9625 chipset include HSPA+ Release 9, EV-DO Revision B, EV-DO Advanced and TD-SCDMA, while the MDM9225 chipset supports HSPA+ Release 9 and TD-SCDMA.

From the link posted here:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=60402

In addition to that here is some interesting commentary from that rumor thread:

Ha! You wish. The problem is power amplifiers: for a true world phone you'd need (at least) 5 bands for HSPA, 2 bands for CDMA, and one band for TD-SCDMA. Quite expensive but still doable. But then comes the real problem: LTE bands are not at all harmonised over the world. You'd need one band for AT&T 700MHz, one band for Verizon 700MHz, at least three more bands for the other spectrum they plan to reuse for LTE (depending on your PA arch you *might* be able to share those with the 3G bands). Then you need a bunch of bands for Europe, a bunch of FDD bands for Asia, one TD-SCDMA and one TD-LTE band for China, and so on...

I think going from 3 to 5 bands today to 15-20 bands isn't very realistic. I expect they'll have *at least* one model for the USA (5xHSPA/2xCDMA/USA-LTE), one model for Europe plus some of Asia (5xHSPA/Non-USA-LTE), and one model mostly for China (5xHSPA/TD-SCDMA/TD-LTE). The only way they'll get around this problem is with something like Nujira's Coolteq-l and a wide-band power amplifier (or rather two, one for the bottom bands and one of the top bands). It's possible but not very likely.

That rumor thread discusses a lot of chips associated with CPU+baseband combos. Apple has its own CPU in the A5/A6. It only needs the baseband chips and possibly the supporting chips:

The MDM9625 and MDM9225 chipsets can be used with Qualcomm’s WTR1605 radio frequency IC and PM8018 power management ICs to create a highly-integrated mobile broadband solution. Samples of the MDM9625 and MDM9225 chipsets are anticipated to be available in Q4 2011.

Other links of note:

8-19-11
http://www.qualcomm.com/blog/2011/0...s-our-test-system-today-your-network-tomorrow

http://www.qualcomm.com/products-services/wireless-networks/lte-advanced

If you would like to get more insights about the OTA test network, as well as understand LTE Advanced a little better, we invite you to listen to our upcoming webinar on 23rd Aug, 9am PST.

 

[Hardcoredan52]

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The next iPhone will support hspa+... Which is basically the 4G most carriers are advertising anyway. Then later next year will be the real LTE equipped iPhone

 

[aristokrat]

Don't know about your German knowledge, but...

LTE is live in Cologne, Germany. Not rural, not projected or set to release somewhere 2012...LIVE. According to a news from heise-online the area with LTE coverage in Cologne was 150 square km in July.

Telekom also states, that 100 cities are set to receive LTE-coverage in the near future.

Here you can have look on an interactive LTE-coverage map by Telekom

Low and behold - the future is here (and I won't buy anything but a LTE-device in the future)

Edit: Just drag around the map of Germany and then start to repeat the mantra: Yes, LTE is live in Europe. Yes, LTE is live in Europe. Yes, LTE is live in Europe.

I suppose I could be wrong, but Europe isn't the only thing outside the US. Perhaps the original commenter lived in neither (most of the world), and has no LTE framework available.

This European "it's us against the US" is a pretty tiring line. Of course, so is the US-centric view many have as well, but at least it's self-definition, as opposed to defining yourself based on how you're not someone else.

 

[rockinred]

It will not flop at all. Apple can cut any features they want and people will still buy it because it's an iPhone. The vast majority of consumers don't know the difference between 3G and 4G anyway or even what data plan they're on, they just happily signed whatever contract they had to to get that iPhone.

Just because it sells doesn't mean it is a great product. iPhone 4 does many great things and the upgraded ios5 is going to add some features. What would be the upgrade iPhone 5? New screen? big deal. My current version is fast with excellent resolution and it is nicely designed. Need upgraded features that are important to the daily usage of equipment. Not just a different looking device. = flop in my books

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Just because it sells doesn't mean it is a great product. iPhone 4 does many great things and the upgraded ios5 is going to add some features. What would be the upgrade iPhone 5? New screen? big deal. My current version is fast with excellent resolution and it is nicely designed. Need upgraded features that are important to the daily usage of equipment. Not just a different looking device. = flop in my books

Still early to tell..but like iPad 2. Slightly different design and an alleged faster processor, which hasn't really shown anything different. Sounds to me that Apple is capitalizing on ignorant buyers..or people with disposable incomes. The way I see it... Apple is sleeping this year. No 4g possible? I hope not.

 

[JForestZ34]

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The next iPhone will support hspa+... Which is basically the 4G most carriers are advertising anyway. Then later next year will be the real LTE equipped iPhone

I have an aircard on ATT and in a good area with full bars H+ is faster than 3G but it's not night and day. Now maybe if you were the only one on it, sure it would be blazing fast. But with all the other devices that are working on that band now it won't be as fast as many people think it will.

James

 

[cvaldes]

It's not even the power requirements so much, outside the US (yes, still part of the world) there is next to no network infrastructure to support such a device.

Fact: the first commercial LTE deployments were in Scandivania. They have been running for a while.

Fact: there are a few other Northern Europe countries with partial LTE deployment. There are also a number of other countries who are rolling out LTE, but with no current commercial availability.

Fact: Germany's current LTE deployment is mostly in rural areas (there are a few urban networks) and the current intention is for people to use LTE modems on computers (which don't have the same sensitivity to battery life as mobile handsets).

Fact: there are many other non-European large iPhone markets with no LTE.

Assumption: there isn't a critical mass of commercially available LTE networks in large markets for Apple to release an LTE device at this time.

Assumption: Following Tim Cook's comments earlier this year, the poor performance of currently available LTE chips hasn't changed and won't until early 2012.

Assumption: a more plausible performance bump at this point would be the inclusion of HSPA+.

 

[iEnvy]

I wouldn't doubt the iPhone 5 might have LTE. Its good to be optimistic.

 

[viperGTS]

If anything, the iPhone 5 needs to have HSPA+.... it will be a serious blow to the iPhone 5 if it stays with 3G.
Since it's advertised as 4G anyway, i wouldnt see the problem.... HSPA+ is fast.

 

[drober30]

I think they are preparing for testing the iPhone 6 which will support LTE. The iPhone 5 was done testing long ago. They always start the work on the next iPhone one year ahead of release.

If this was true, there wouldn't have been the iPhone 4 prototype that was found in a bar. That was found very close to the release of the iPhone 4.

It would have been the iPhone 5.

 

[LoganT]

This isn't likely, but maybe Apple has been planning on putting an LTE chip in the iPhone 5 all along. Maybe the reason they've been waiting so long to release the iPhone 5 is because they're waiting for a smaller more efficient LTE chip.

Apple could have knowledge about a sort of chip that the public isn't aware of.

 

[deconstruct60]

If anything, the iPhone 5 needs to have HSPA+....

That would not be particularly hard since the MDM6600 in the iPhone 4 already supports HSPA+

" ... MDM6600™: supports HSPA+ data rates of up to 14.4 Mbps and CDMA2000® 1xEV-DO Rev. A/Rev. B ... "
http://www.qualcomm.com/news/releas...ls-new-roadmap-gobi-connectivity-technologies


It isn't just a matter of the chipset. There are antenna, power, and other system factors that go into getting validated and tested coverage.

Apple is probably going to declare they did some "magical" engineering and just add HSPA+ to the iPhone 5 tech specs and simply just keep using the MDM6600.

 

[SeniorGato1]

I've had all the iPhone versions, including VW iPhone. I've had my 4G HTC Thunderbolt for 3 months and have not missed iPhone 1 bit. Having wifi like speeds wherever you go is amazing!

 

[QuarterSwede]

I've had all the iPhone versions, including VW iPhone. I've had my 4G HTC Thunderbolt for 3 months and have not missed iPhone 1 bit. Having wifi like speeds wherever you go is amazing!

Apparently you didn't have many apps. That's the reason I stay in the Apple ecosystem.

 

[macinnv]

With the iPhone 5 having a larger screen and LTE, i have very high expectations for the new device!

 

[ArchaicRevival]

What if they do like the Motorola Xoom, once the LTE chips are ready, they will install them for you at no cost to you?

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I've had all the iPhone versions, including VW iPhone. I've had my 4G HTC Thunderbolt for 3 months and have not missed iPhone 1 bit. Having wifi like speeds wherever you go is amazing!

I never let not one customer walk out of my Verizon store with the thunderbolt, unless I install Juice Defender and Task Killer. I never have to do that with the iPhone. My co-worker who swears by the thunderbolt just got an extended battery for it... It's like Windows where you have to invest in more things to make it work. The iPhone just... works...

 

[Fr389]

I could be wrong but... isn't LTE Advanced the only real 4G technology? A wireless standard is defined "4G" if its speed reaches at least 100 Mbit/s, while the LTE currently used can "only" go up to about 50 Mbit/s. That's not so far from HSPA+, which where I live has recently been upgraded to 42 Mbit/s.
Even because of this, imho, it's really unlikely to see an LTE iPhone 5.. Hope to be wrong anyway, since my area should be covered by LTE in the next few months

 

[deconstruct60]

Apparently you didn't have many apps. That's the reason I stay in the Apple ecosystem.

This is exactly one of the primary reasons why Apple won't push the envelope with iPhone5's radio. They have a large, pragmatically, captive market. Folks who need 3G and 3GS upgrades will buy it because (on AT&T and other legacy GSM carriers) HSPA+ is faster than what they had and on (Verizon and CDMA) they are still in the honeymoon phase of even having an iPhone as an option. They are going to lean on functionality outside of the radio to maintain sales.


It isn't like Apple is going to give the competitors a window forever. Fall 2012 they'll catch up. This will be bigger deal on Verizon (and other CDMA) carriers where there are creditable LTE competitors and being on EV-DO versus LTE is a huge difference. I suppose that is why Apple is suing everyone on the planet to block them for a while. Even is photoshopped pics fail over several months they still got a couple months back on the year gap to 2012 release.


Besides, the iPad3 needs LTE more than the iPhone does anyway. ( and it has slid to 2012 already ). Faster internet for an internet device is bigger deal.

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I could be wrong but... isn't LTE Advanced the only real 4G technologyA wireless standard is defined "4G" if its speed reaches at least 100 Mbit/s,

Not quite. 4G is suppose to be that the technology is all IP (internet protocol) based. Both legacy CDMA and GSM are put into the review mirror.
LTE is still a mix. LTE Advanced has a mode where you could be in a more pure IP mode. Real 4G is when won't really have an option. The deployed implementations will have a glued on legacy radio but the real 4G radio won't have much the legacy baggage left at all.

The problem is that the carriers are fully free to label their radio technology anything they want to. Most likely when "technical" 4G gets deployed the marketing name will be 5G. At this point they've basically have lost control of the carrier marketing folks. The spin-meisters are going to claim whatever will bump sales. (they've turned it into faster speed means "n+1" G )

 

[skellener]

I don't really see any point in updating my iPhone until there's a new one that works on the carriers new LTE network. The iPhone itself has always worked fine. It's the cell carriers' 3G network that has always been flakey.

 

[MacAddict1978]

"Unlikely" may not be true anymore. Yes Apple tends to be reserved in adopting some standards; obviously this was the case with Apple choosing not to adopt 3G when the 1st gen iPhone made it's debut.

However, Apple is also known to push some standards out prematurely, as well as being on the front line in putting an ax to standards it no longer sees relevant.

The answer to which Apple will do may be answered by the following question:
Is the standard going to improve the product?
-so if getting rid of the standard (ie, floppy disc) is going to allow Apple to improve the product, they'll happily chuck it.
-if the standard is going to ruin the product, (ie, 3G not ready and causing battery life issues) then Apple will stick to what works.


I think the question is difficult to answer because we don't know the outcomes of Apple's LTE testing.
Long story short, I wouldn't put it past Apple to release the iPhone 5 as an LTE phone. As long as the complex answer to the simple question "Is it going to improve the product" is a favorable answer.

Apple has pushed standards that would be fruitful and useful for the device they were pushed on: i.e. fire wire, thunder bolt, taking out floppy drives, video codecs etc.

Putting out LTE in the iPhone 5 would be foolish. 1. There is next to no network infrastructure outside of Verizon (and they're really only in a few cities, not even well yet. AT&T is at 0). So customers can't really use LTE yet. Second, people hock phones faster than they do almost any other device. Why put a technology in a phone prematurely? That makes no sense.

Also, if the size profile rumored for the iPhone 5 is true, there is no way in hell they are cramming an LTE chip in that baby nor getting decent battery life.

You know the saying: wish in one hand, **** in the other. See which one fills up first.

 

[whatever]

People need to remember that it is not worth Apple's time to support LTE in the iPhone until LTE is available in the US.

Many of the countries in Europe that have LTE are smaller than Texas. If a majority of the EU had LTE then it would be different.

Please remember Apple's biggest market is the US and they are a US company.

 

[MacTheSpoon]

I hope this isn't true and that they get LTE into the iPhone 5.

 

[jsh]

Please remember Apple's biggest market is the US and they are a US company.

Apple may be a US company, but their biggest market is China.

 

[GuitarDTO]

LTE or no LTE, I honestly don't care either way at the moment. I got the iPhone 4 when it came to Verizon. Verizon's 3G network has never hiccup'd, and I really cannot think of many times when I've really felt I needed more speed. I use the phone on Wifi at home, and when I am out and about the 3G network has been plenty fast enough. It loads maps quickly, the GPS keeps up, I can listen to internet radio without skipping. What else do you really need? About the only slightly annoying thing I have found with the 3G network is the lag in loading a weather radar with the Weather Channel app. More speed would be nice there. Other than that, I am perfectly satisfied still with the iPhone 4. If iPhone 5 does end up having LTE I might consider it, but I guess what I'm saying is I certainly don't think Apple needs to rush it if it sacrifices battery life.

 

[Rocketman]

That would not be particularly hard since the MDM6600 in the iPhone 4 already supports HSPA+

It isn't just a matter of the chipset. There are antenna, power, and other system factors that go into getting validated and tested coverage.

Apple is probably going to declare they did some "magical" engineering and just add HSPA+ to the iPhone 5 tech specs and simply just keep using the MDM6600.

I agree that is somewhat likely. Tick-tock would be the supporting case for that. I expect to see an iPhone variant with not one but two rings around the circumference, "race track" style, to allow for twice as many frequency antennas. At the same time Apple is going to help carriers "pick winners" in future frequencies so there are fewer, more capable, frequencies so world phones become practical. The reality I fear is to accomplish that they may need at some point to forsake even 3G and 2G to make room for one more antenna, even though their usefulness is in their ubiquity.

Rocketman

 

[gramirez2012]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the iPhone 5 will have LTE, especially if they're already installing the hardware at the Apple Stores. Apple has been able to pull off this kind of last-minute improvement in the past.