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Is your knowledge of science and physics the result of a US liberal arts degree?:p

I'm afraid I'm not that smart ;)

I have a technical degree.

No, cars do create pollution, there's no free ride when you're trying to move a 2-ton vehicle, unless you're hitching it to some Clydesdales! (And even horses emit methane). The law of conservation of energy still applies. I assume you're referring to electric vehicles or hydrogen fuel cell cars. Well, where does electricity come from? Do you think we're going to power 250 million electric cars (never mind the carbon footprint of replacing all of our current internal combustion-powered cars with electric or hygrogen-powered vehicles) with wind turbines and solar power?

With hydrogen cars, it's even worse. There doesn't happen to be a lot of free molecular hydrogen lying around in convenient pools for us. 90% of hydrogen produced today comes from... guess what? Fossil fuels, with the byproduct of the process being CO2. Sound familiar?

I do realize there's no "free lunch". I was merely pointing out the fact that, the reason why we have more waste than the absolute minimum required, has more to do with business than engineering ;)

Let's also not forget that, before cars came along, horses had their own problems, such as constant defecation in public areas, unsanitary conditions, spread of disease, etc. Even animals "pollute":

“In New York City alone at the turn of the century, horses deposited on the streets every day an estimated 2.5 million pounds of manure and 60,000 gallons of urine, accounting for about two-thirds of the filth that littered the city’s streets. Excreta from horses in the form of dried dust irritated nasal passages and lungs, then became a syrupy mass to wade through and track into the home whenever it rained. New York insurance actuaries had established by the turn of the century that infections diseases, including typhoid fever, we much more frequently contracted by livery stable keepers and employees than by other occupational groups, and an appeal to the Brooklyn Board of Health to investigate resulted in the institution of new municipal regulations on stables, compelling more frequent removal excreta and disinfecting of premises. Medical authorities stated that tetanus was introduced into cities in horse fodder and that an important cause of diarrhea, a serious health problem among children at the time, was ‘street dust’ consisting in the main of germ-laden dried horse dung. The flies that bred on the ever present manure heaps carried more than thirty communicable diseases, and the unsightliness and stench of the stable meant that most urban owners of horses ‘boarded and baited’ them at public facilities at inconvenient distance from their residences. In addition, traffic was often clogged by the carcasses of overworked dray horses that dropped in their tracks during summer heat waves or had to be destroyed after stumbling on slippery pavements and breaking their legs. About 15,000 dead horses were removed from the streets of New York each year. . . . These conditions were characteristic in varying degree of all of our large and medium-sized cities.”

- James Flink, The Automobile Age (Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press, 1993), p. 136.
 
Yeah, believe me, I was just as skeptical as anybody else when my gf got an iPad, mainly for ebooks. But I quickly realized how fast and convenient a touch screen tablet really is for many every day tasks. I also realized that it is not a laptop (or computer in general) replacement and the touch screen is not ideal for every job (like trying to keep up with a thread and type posts here on the forums lol). But imagine the two combined. Touch screen inputs when you need them and a physical keyboard and mouse or trackpad when you don't. Now you can use whichever is the best interface for your type of input. That's my point - as a keyboard/mouse replacement, touch screen won't do 100%, but as a compliment, or an addition to, it rocks.

Total agreement, though I was never skeptical of something that always seemed so obvious! Here is an exercise to support the claim:

Find three links on your desktop browser which are separated by a significant amount of space. Consecutively touch each of them with your finger as quickly as you can. Now try moving a cursor to each one consecutively, as quickly as you can while leaving a small moment to mime a click.

What do you observe? :)
 
And I'd also be curious to know how many people here said "No! no tablet computer!" and then ran out to buy the iPad after it took off.

I admit, I was one of those people.

I watched the iPad keynote and I was kinda-sorta impressed, but still felt strongly that I didn't want one. It was another few months before the iPad was released in Canada. During that time, I kept watching the forums and the web. I discovered a couple of apps that looked like "well, maybe I could use something like that". Finally, the day the iPad was released, I drove over to Best Buy on my lunch break to play with one, just to see. I fully expected that they would be completely sold out by then (given the hundreds of people lining up) and I still wasn't to buy one anyway. Well, after 20 minutes of playing, I discovered that I really quite liked it. When the sales guy said "yep, there's 1 left" -- I bit the bullet and bought it.

I've used it every single day since then.
 
I agree now. Blame my speedreading while at work for not thinking things through. I edited my repsonse, but I guess you didn't get the refresh in time.

Yeah, I didn't see it till after I typed in that post :)

Now, if they can only figure out how to make a computer do everything we want by merely thinking about it, these things wouldn't happen :p
 
As long as it's a feature and not a replacement for keyboards and mice, then I think I like it.

I guess if you're used to touch screens then it'll be cool. It'd be handy for a quick check of your emails or reading online magazines or articles. I personally hate touch screens. I can't use 'em. I don't mind casual browsing but it's a no-no for typing.

There's already all-in-one touch screen computers. I think most of them are, really, so it wouldn't surprise me if Apple followed.
 
Find three links on your desktop browser which are separated by a significant amount of space. Consecutively touch each of them with your finger as quickly as you can. Now try moving a cursor to each one consecutively, as quickly as you can while leaving a small moment to mime a click.

What do you observe? :)

That it depends on what you're doing?

Consider: 1 2 3. (And before you say it's contrived -- look down at the thread page list at the bottom right of this page...)

With a mouse - no problem. With a finger - you have to stop and either pinch to zoom in so you can see the links and get them straight or do the tap-and-hold-and-whoops-wrong-one-untap dance.

So a touch interface is great -- but only if the touch targets are big enough.
 
I've used it every single day since then.

Isn't it great not having to turn on your computer just to check e-mail?

Or for a quick web browse?

That it depends on what you're doing?

Consider: 1 2 3. (And before you say it's contrived -- look down at the thread page list at the bottom right of this page...)

With a mouse - no problem. With a finger - you have to stop and either pinch to zoom in so you can see the links and get them straight or do the tap-and-hold-and-whoops-wrong-one-untap dance.

So a touch interface is great -- but only if the touch targets are big enough.

I have no problem tapping your 1, 2 or 3 on an iPad. Imagine a bigger screen like an iMac or MBP. The only time I might want to zoom in to avoid a mis-tap is on the iPhone. I suspect any screen over ~7" would have no problems and little need for pinch zoom to click links.

But in real world conditions, if a link I want is on the top left of the screen, followed by a scroll down to the bottom of that page, then a mid-page link at the right, and on and on...your mouse would never be able to keep up with my eye to hand coordination as far as clicking and scrolling go, even if I needed a pinch zoom here and there.

Now, your example is a good one, because we see this all the time for pages, 1, 2, 3 and so on. On a mouse, I usually like to click the number of the page I want, even if it's the next page, rather than the "next" page link/button. On an iPad, I usually click the "next" page link/button because it's easier and larger to hit. Depending on the size of the numbers, this is one scenario where I may pinch zoom 1st. But did you notice something I've done subconsciously? I've begun to adapt slightly (clicking "next" instead of the numnber on most occasions). We forget about this all the time, that we ourselves adapt the way we do things based on the tools we have to do them with. This will only further enhance the experience. Touch screen computers are already out there (even Best Buy has them, in desktops). If we fully adapt them, as an addition to the existing mouse and keyboard, I'm sure we ourselves will "adapt" to the new form of input, and will naturally evolve our ways of interfacing to make the most of it - which will differ slightly from person to person, and that's perfectly normal.
 
But to come back to my original point. If it was left of up to the masses to decide what the world needs I think we would probably be walking around bludgeoning each other with clubs and living in mud huts.

You appear to indicate that technology is the parameter that define the evolution of a civilization. I respectfully disagree.
 
This is really unsuitable,crazy,un-realistic & down right stupid.......

I am sure it's real and will go ahead

I really don't mean this as a personal insult, but I'm so surprised at the lack of vision everyone's showing! I'm fully aware of the limitations of a touch interface (less precision, tiring 1:1 movement, poor ergonomics, etc.) on a desktop. But read the patent guys! The point of the accelerometers and sensors was to SWITCH between touch and cursor! SWITCH between touch-based UI elements and traditional ones!

So if you're moving stuff to the trash, or doing any other task, you don't HAVE to use touch. You can use keyboard+mouse forever. But if you have a task that is suited to touch - games, photo editing, video editing, music, etc. - that's when you switch to the touch UI for as long as you wish. It's brilliant, in my opinion. Like most other Apple innovations - they won't be the first. But they'll be the easiest, the most elegant, the most integrated, and the most imitated.

Mark my words! Touch-enabled, switchable computers running OS X in 2012!
 
You appear to indicate that technology is the parameter that define the evolution of a civilization. I respectfully disagree.

Well, it's not the only parameter, but it is one of them. Food and agriculture would be another...a form of government one more...knowledge and education...economy...and on and on.
 
You appear to indicate that technology is the parameter that define the evolution of a civilization. I respectfully disagree.

We are on an Apple rumor forum.

"When in Rome..."

We actually probably have a similar view. I work in retail and in my experience most people at my mall could not buy another thing(socks, underwear and food excluded) for two years and be fine at the end of that time. They would be $10k-$30k richer and the world would have that much less stuff created for their consumption.

But to imply that Apple should not explore these technologies because they are bad for the planet is...well...this just seems like the wrong forum for that. I don't disagree, I just think it could be applied to almost everything so it doesn't exactly have the force I think maybe you want it to.
 
I really don't mean this as a personal insult, but I'm so surprised at the lack of vision everyone's showing! I'm fully aware of the limitations of a touch interface (less precision, tiring 1:1 movement, poor ergonomics, etc.) on a desktop. But read the patent guys! The point of the accelerometers and sensors was to SWITCH between touch and cursor! SWITCH between touch-based UI elements and traditional ones!

So if you're moving stuff to the trash, or doing any other task, you don't HAVE to use touch. You can use keyboard+mouse forever. But if you have a task that is suited to touch - games, photo editing, video editing, music, etc. - that's when you switch to the touch UI for as long as you wish. It's brilliant, in my opinion. Like most other Apple innovations - they won't be the first. But they'll be the easiest, the most elegant, the most integrated, and the most imitated.

Mark my words! Touch-enabled, switchable computers running OS X in 2012!

People tend have a deeply seated fear of change in general, which typically keeps them from pondering on the benefits of new tech. Instead, they're prone to protect that to which they are accustomed.

People need some hand-holding sometimes, and that's okay. Not everyone can be big boys and girls.
 
Well, it's not the only parameter, but it is one of them. Food and agriculture would be another...a form of government one more...knowledge and education...economy...and on and on.

...and considering technology has a considerable effect on all of these...

:rolleyes:
 
I wish this is a sarcasm. Function-wise, probably a yes. Ergonomics-wise, an outright no. I was focusing on the ergonomic aspects of those devices in that post.

The latest mouse will never be ergonomically fit for all hand dimensions. That's just reality and any engineer knows it's an averaging of hand dimensions they target to get a product to market.
 
Amazing

The lack of vision, foresight and imagination in these blogs.

A touch enabled desktop computer opens a whole new level of interactivity. It's exciting, thought provoking and the beginning of a new era in computing.

No, I don't want to use a touch screen for everything - but when i'm working on graphics, games, demonstrating apps and sites to clients. Beautiful.

I pity those who can't see the potential or open their minds to a new level of interactivity. It's a good job we don't rely on these people or we'd still be living in caves - this sounds like victorians complaining about the motor car.

And as for BS like 'ergonomics' can someone tell me how a computer laying flat on a desk for touch interaction is any less ergonomic than the table top used since before the times of socrates?
 
apple isn't just going to trash a user interface that's tried and true - they'll just build upon it. If they add a touch screen, I think they would probably rebuild either the dashboard or FrontRow to be more like iOS. That way the two interfaces can run side by side and you can still use the touch screen in regular mac os x if you choose. They may make minor changes to the current interface to make it more touch screen friendly (similar to what Microsoft did with windows 7) but I think overall it will maintain the same appearance and functionality.

I also like the idea of a lamp-like iMac stand/base making a return for this touch screen desktop. It would make it easy enough to switch between touch input and mouse/keyboard input
 
A touch enabled desktop computer opens a whole new level of interactivity. It's exciting, thought provoking and the beginning of a new era in computing.

Back in the 80s maybe. Some of you people need to get out more, these things have been in use in kiosks and as POS terminals for such a long time, it's not even funny try to pass this off as "innovation".
 
After using iPad for a few months, I'm now convinced that keyboard and mouse will disappear within a few years.

I'm not sure about the form factor of the iMac in the design because you can't put your hands on a table to rest. But for a lot of people (musicians, video editors, painters) a multitouch Mac would be a dream coming true.
 
Back in the 80s maybe. Some of you people need to get out more, these things have been in use in kiosks and as POS terminals for such a long time, it's not even funny try to pass this off as "innovation".

really? link me to a vid of multi-touch in the 80s plz.
 
really? link me to a vid of multi-touch in the 80s plz.

A vid ? Really ? :rolleyes:

Ask Murray Hill about his research in 1983 at Bell Labs.

I wasn't talking about multi-touch, just a standard touch based Kiosk or POS system anyway. These have been around for quite a while, I've seen a lot of restaurants with them over the years.

A touch enabled desktop is not something that's new. Hence why the patent is not about a touch enable desktop, it's about using an accelerometer to switch the input mechanism when the screen is positioned horizontally.

Again, this is not innovation, it's simply using what's out there already, packaging it up, marketing it. Something Apple excels at doing, don't get me wrong.
 
After using iPad for a few months, I'm now convinced that keyboard and mouse will disappear within a few years.

Well, come back and let's discuss this once you have written a book on the iPad without an external keyboard...

The iPad might have its uses, but writing definitely is NOT among them. It's not just that typing on the iPad is a royal pain in the butt, even simple text editing and copy/cut/paste operations are overly complicated because the touch interface does not allow for precise manipulations - these things are easy to do with a mouse and keyboard, but unnecessary difficult with a touch interface.

I don't know about you guys, but I have to type A LOT to earn my living, and I can tell from first hand experience that an iPad is a horrible tool for that type of work.

Short: Without an adequate replacement, I don't see mice and keyboards disappearing. Maybe in Apple land, because Apple is company that produces products targeted at CONSUMING media, but this will certainly not happen in the rest of the industry where devices are built that are made for real work.
 
I'm not sure about the form factor of the iMac in the design because you can't put your hands on a table to rest.

Sure you can. Imagine sitting down at your desk resting your hands on the desk, and in front of you is the touch screen iMac, layed down on the desk nearly flat, with a slight tilt for you to better see it. Sort of like an iPad in one of those cases that holds it in a tilt position. The iMac's arm from the patent picture seems to be this flexible too.
 
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