Apple Threatens to Terminate Epic Games' Developer Accounts on August 28

[4jasontv]

On the surface, epic games breaks the rule by introducing payment methods that are not apple’s own system. This is clear and Apple guideline says “no”.

On the other hand, if epic game can do this, theoretically any company that is large enough can do this. But epic game didn’t until now. They Clearly know they are breaking rules and are breaking it anyway. I’m confident that internal management team weights the damage and gain, and made a gamble of some sort.

Given all the hearings etc happening right now, apples 30% cut is hurting a good chunk of developers and by proxy, other small business owners according to Facebook statements. I’m neither a developer nor those small business owners so I can’t verify or provide any evidence on that one.

For me, I applaud epic game’s decision to bring the whole issue to the public attention. During a football/basketball match, it’s not uncommon for players to intentionally break the rule to break a stalemate or kick a comeback. Those few scores sometimes means win or lose. If Apple is doing right, why now so many companies start to voice their frustrations? I would like to know why, instead of siding with any company.

If Apple's 30% is hurting a developer than they don't have a viable product. Part of making mobile apps includes this cost. If your app doesn't generate enough revenue to allow you to provide long term support to your customers without additional income than don't bother making it.

 

[Shirasaki]

And yet you keep posting about people taking different positions than you?

So I come back and read my original post. Ok, it sounds like I’m doing exactly that. Then?

 

[Ethosik]

If Apple's 30% is hurting a developer than they don't have a viable product. Part of making mobile apps includes this cost. If your app doesn't generate enough revenue to allow you to provide long term support to your customers without additional income than don't bother making it.

I agree. There are some that find Vimeo's pricing of $20 a month too expensive. Others do not.

As someone that pays the CacheFLY bill (and I am not THAT popular and its still expensive), Apple's 30% cut is VERY VERY generous in the distribution alone.

 

[pweicks]

On Twitter they had this

Dylan Buyers
New from Epic Games: "Apple has removed Fortnite from the App Store and informed Epic that on Friday, August 28 Apple will terminate all our developer accounts and cut Epic off from iOS and Mac development tools."

Um I never even made that comment.

 

[Shirasaki]

That is why I said this is equivalent of acting immature and throwing a tantrum in the middle of a store.

Adults are just older kids lol.
Whatever this is going on will be interesting for sure. I will wait.

 

[pweicks]

No, they can’t just do whatever they want 🙄

Yeah, they can do whatever they want. Just like you can do whatever you want with your business when you become the CEO of some big tech company. Don’t like it? Stop giving em your money and go find someone else to play Fortnite with.

 

[Ethosik]

Adults are just older kids lol.
Whatever this is going on will be interesting for sure. I will wait.

Adults do not throw tantrums unless they are still immature. Pull your game out of the iOS App Store on your own accord, as a protest to Apple. This is the right way to handle this. But Epic just wanted to make it seem like Apple was this Big Bad guy for removing their app.

 

[pweicks]

Then why did they got summon by the govt and went to it? Simply they can't do whatever they want.

Prob cuz our government is full of idiots. Why would anyone ever rely on our government to be the entity that tells us what’s right and what’s wrong?

 

[Ethosik]

Prob cuz our government is full of idiots. Why would anyone ever rely on our government to be the entity that tells us what’s right and what’s wrong?

The government cannot make proper decisions with regarding technology. Remember when Apple was being forced to open up iOS for the FBI? Or when Net Neutrality was being discussed?

I think in some ways they government can get too involved in things. And that is not good for anybody.

 

[Shirasaki]

Pull your game out of the iOS App Store on your own accord, as a protest to Apple.

Well, this sounds like a major oversight from Epic Game management team.

 

[amartinez1660]

Epic can always go to Steam. Lol

My thoughts too, but Steam also charges 30% cut? So still same ground zero. I really don’t know what to think of all of this.

Epic did violate the rules, Apple is on a magnifying glass being checked for any potential antitrust mistake, so it’s a bit of a “let the rules dictate the outcomes” I guess. Apple does have a high margin profitable business but at the same time they built it... starting from making the hardware, software backend/front end, the tools, the subscription system for devs and from the first developer ever that signed the very first publishing and tech stack usage rights.

What really puzzles me is: if the AppStore is such a bad thing, bad business and such a crappy ecosystem WHY Epic is so adamant to fight nail and tooth to STILL stay on damn oppressing horrible store? They have a chance here to make right by the customers, to leave a print. That the costumers are losing all their stuff?

Ok, true, let’s fix it then. According to them, this is supposed to be “not about money”, so they could totally refund their iOS customers and point them to a non-oppressing equivalent system (so no steam, psn, Microsoft which also charge 30%, that wouldn’t make sense) lead by example and be the hero that fought for the people for years to come. What gives?

 

[Ethosik]

Well, this sounds like a major oversight from Epic Game management team.

No, because all people see is "Apple and Google removed Fortnite - YOUR FAVORITE GAME. GO AFTER THEM!!!!". And they do not see the details. Just look at the posts here that are on Epic's side.

Its clickbait. People don't dig in the details and will side with Epic. That does not make their decision right. They are just playing the game to make it seem like they are the victim here.

 

[dguisinger]

My thoughts too, but Steam also charges 30% cut? So still same ground zero. I really don’t know what to think of all of this.

Epic did violate the rules, Apple is on a magnifying glass being checked for any potential antitrust mistake, so it’s a bit of a “let the rules dictate the outcomes” I guess. Apple does have a high margin profitable business but at the same time they built it... starting from making the hardware, software backend/front end, the tools, the subscription system for devs and from the first developer ever that signed the very first publishing and tech stack usage rights.

What really puzzles me is: if the AppStore is such a bad thing, bad business and such a crappy ecosystem WHY Epic is so adamant to fight nail and tooth to STILL stay on damn oppressing horrible store? They have a chance here to make right by the customers, to leave a print. That the costumers are losing all their stuff?

Ok, true, let’s fix it then. According to them, this is supposed to be “not about money”, so they could totally refund their iOS customers and point them to a non-oppressing equivalent system (so no steam, psn, Microsoft which also charge 30%, that wouldn’t make sense) lead by example and be the hero that fought for the people for years to come. What gives?

Are you being serious? That really puzzles you?

 

[cardfan]

Apple was doing ok but then had to threaten epic to fix their app or lose their account? Dumb. That should give epic something to fight with. Hopefully Apple loses the 30% thing altogether going forward. A big blow to apples revenue but one they deserve along with punitive damages for all the devs they have extorted unfairly. Splitting the App Store from Apple isnt off the table either.

 

[jvlfilms]

From the App Store Guidelines

I know it's part of the guidelines, but that doesn't mean it's inherently any less consumer friendly to do so.

 

[PsykX]

What? Try and explain that again. It’s sounds like you are saying it’s ok for Epic to circumvent their agreement because Epic wanted to do it.

What I think would be the best solution is for Apple (and Google of course), to lower that 30% cut.

I don't support violating App Store rules obviously. If Apple took a smaller cut than the 30% that, by the way, made total sense in 2009, maybe we wouldn't be here today.

The question is : what would be a reasonable cut, today in 2020 ? I don't have an answer to that, maybe around 20-ish, OR put a limit of money that Apple can generate from a single app.

 

[Ethosik]

What I think would be the best solution is for Apple (and Google of course), to lower that 30% cut.

I don't support violating App Store rules obviously. If Apple took a smaller cut than the 30% that, by the way, made total sense in 2009, maybe we wouldn't be here today.

The question is : what would be a reasonable cut, today in 2020 ? I don't have an answer to that, maybe around 20-ish, OR put a limit of money that Apple can generate from a single app.

Why do you get to decide 30% is too much? You do know the majority of digital stores take 30% right? If you are for changing that for Apple, how about Steam, Xbox, Playstation, Windows Store, Google Play store? Should those change too?

(before COVID) I find a 12 pack of Soda way more expensive than 10 years ago (and it actually did increase).

Go ahead, sign up for a CDN that helps make your download faster anywhere in the country and world. I pay the CacheFLY bill here, and it get very very expensive, and I am not that popular and get a lot of downloads.

Apple's 30% offers A LOT to developers. They do not just take 30% just for giggles.

Do you want to remove the 30% but pay $1,000 for Xcode, developer license, APIs and stuff like that?

 

[cmaier]

What I think would be the best solution is for Apple (and Google of course), to lower that 30% cut.

I don't support violating App Store rules obviously. If Apple took a smaller cut than the 30% that, by the way, made total sense in 2009, maybe we wouldn't be here today.

The question is : what would be a reasonable cut, today in 2020 ? I don't have an answer to that, maybe around 20-ish, OR put a limit of money that Apple can generate from a single app.

Yes we would. Because whiners like Epic don’t want to pay less. They want to put their OWN store on iOS and charge OTHER developers 30%.

 

[4jasontv]

What I think would be the best solution is for Apple (and Google of course), to lower that 30% cut.

I don't support violating App Store rules obviously. If Apple took a smaller cut than the 30% that, by the way, made total sense in 2009, maybe we wouldn't be here today.

The question is : what would be a reasonable cut, today in 2020 ? I don't have an answer to that, maybe around 20-ish, OR put a limit of money that Apple can generate from a single app.

But why should Apple and Google have to take a cut? There are so many more developers now than in 2009 but less big name mobile OSs. Developers should take less revenue because their apps are not being supported as long. Maybe we could do 20% for developers who want their app to show up in search and 25% for apps that have to be linked directly but don't show up in search.

I feel like you are assuming developers are the 'good guys' and Apple and Google are bad.

 

[Shirasaki]

No, because all people see is "Apple and Google removed Fortnite - YOUR FAVORITE GAME. GO AFTER THEM!!!!". And they do not see the details. Just look at the posts here that are on Epic's side.

Its clickbait. People don't dig in the details and will side with Epic. That does not make their decision right. They are just playing the game to make it seem like they are the victim here.

It’s human nature to conveniently ignore details when trying to understand something. Binary thinking is instant, doesn’t take effort and do not require research. Just let the emotion drives their behaviour. Maybe Epic Game management team also takes this into account and decide it is better to act as a victim than “trying to do the right approach” to protest.

 

[amartinez1660]

Are you being serious? That really puzzles you?

Nah, I’m playing dumb. Busted and guilty.

It does puzzle me beyond the naive way though. There are so many people fighting for one or the other blindly (online, here, friends around). Android fans bash Apple (as any opportunity is a good one), Apple fans bash Epic... but this is honestly a great chance, if I were an Epic-fan-hardcore-somebody I would totally put my blood and tears to push this to the limit, in a real way to make a statement... I would push to take the business out of the AppStore and out of EVERY store that’s above what would be “justified” (whatever that number is) and to put their money where their mouth is, go ahead and refund them.

 

[Rogifan]

Citation?

It was from a Wall Street Journal interview:

The 70–30 split, are the economics of this working out the way that you had said when we last spoke, which is that you might make some money, but you don’t expect it to be a big source of profits?

Yeah. It’s just like iTunes.

Even with the huge popularity of this, you don’t…

No. It costs money to run it. Those free apps cost money to store and to deliver wirelessly. The paid apps cost money, too. They have to pay for some of the free apps. We don’t expect this to be a big profit generator. We expect it to add value to the iPhone. We’ll sell more iPhones because of it.

Of course now that iPhone sales growth is basically flat Tim Cook commits to growing services revenue. Well App Store is part of services so to grow services revenue they need App Store to make a ton of money.

 

[Rogifan]

Everyone pays 30% of the purchase price. Subscriptions on year 2 are at 15% of subscription price.

30% of zero is zero.

How many game IAP are subscriptions? My guess is not many. Every time you buy more coins, dice rolls etc. Apple is getting 30%.

 

[Rogifan]

A smaller developer still wouldn't be able to afford to have their own store. How does giving the Big Guy's like Epic more money help the little developer?

I don’t know. Ask Apple who gives a lot of big guys more money. As far as I know most if not all Facebook and Google apps on the App Store are free. As are Amazon’s Kindle, Netflix and Spotify.
[automerge]1597718899[/automerge]

Can you choose to use PayPal, Stripe, or any other payment processor at your local Walmart or CVS?

Once you download an app to your device and launch it are you still in Apple’s store?

 

[mrcloaked]

I do.