Apple Threatens to Terminate Epic Games' Developer Accounts on August 28

[Realityck]

Apple's 'extreme' app policies give Google defense in Fortnite antitrust suit - Telecom (EconomicTimes)

"Alphabet Inc's Google has a better chance than Apple Inc at defeating Fortnite video game maker Epic Games in court over its allegations the two companies breached anti-trust laws."

Nearly all of the world's smartphones outside restricted markets such as China come with either Google's Play store or Apple's App Store.

But proving Play store rules violate antitrust laws may be more difficult than with the App Store.

While Apple requires all apps be installed through the App Store, Google allows such installation through several different app stores, in one of several key policy differences that could help it beat the allegations of anticompetitive conduct.

Google encourages phone makers to set the Play store as the default, and it erects security roadblocks when users try to download from some other options.

Those practices are drawing scrutiny from U.S. state attorneys general, people familiar with the matter have told Reuters.

But in the end, alternatives exist, said Nicholas Economides, a New York University economics professor who studies online marketplaces.

"Having other options definitely makes it a bit harder to say something is anticompetitive," Economides said, speaking generally about app stores.

"With Apple, things are extreme because there's no alternative whatsoever. That makes for a stronger potential case."

 

[mrcloaked]

It looks grim.

 

[Naaaaak]

Uh seriously? I do not remember a gun to my head when I went to buy the iPhone. Or went to sign up to be an iOS developer. I could have gotten an Android phone and developed for Android. If I do not like Apple's terms, there is Android.

Apple is not a monopoly and has nothing to do with Apple bias. They hold 14% share of the smart phone market. I chose iOS because it is a safe controlled platform. Apple is my only option for that. You want to side load apps and have multiple stores, you can do what the other 86% of the market has done.

I'll quote Jeff Johnson's twitter post since he explained it so succinctly:

> The way a stable duopoly works in that the duopolists mostly don't compete with each other, they tacitly conspire to keep out any other competition. It's only the facade of competition.
>
> Why do they both charge 30%? Where's the cutthroat price competition? Nonexistent. Duopoly.

As a consumer, you are downstream from the gun held to developer heads. Innovation is only allowed to trickle down to you through the menacing terms of the unwavering duopoly. Both duopoly members are giving you a crap deal. Side-loading is not a viable business strategy, perhaps due to the way it's implemented on Android (more of a convenience for edge cases).

The duopoly acts as a market monopoly. Consumer choice is not being served well by the Crap Store Cartel.

 

[Ethosik]

Sigh, looking grimmer and grimmer. I’m definitely packing up my things in iOS now. Getting all my stuff ready to go. Y’all said Android is the other option, well, time to take it. I’m not dealing with this level of compromise.

That is how businesses will listen.

 

[topdrawer]

Flash died because it sucked. It was tried on other platforms and was just as trash as ever. When Apple refused to support it, they had like 10% marketshare or something, but users had a CHOICE.

Now we have a mobile OS duopoly that keeps CHOICE out of consumer hands. How are you going to run Unreal-engine games? Jailbreak your device (and probably void your Crapple warranty and right to repair)? It's completely unreasonable. Good luck building a company and offering something to consumers with the "gotta jailbreak first" business model.

Unreal is not a game platform. once you make your game with unreal and spit out the app file for ios, it is like any other ios app. you can sign it with xcode and submit to the app store.

 

[4jasontv]

I'll quote Jeff Johnson's twitter post since he explained it so succinctly:

> The way a stable duopoly works in that the duopolists mostly don't compete with each other, they tacitly conspire to keep out any other competition. It's only the facade of competition.
>
> Why do they both charge 30%? Where's the cutthroat price competition? Nonexistent. Duopoly.

As a consumer, you are downstream from the gun held to developer heads. Innovation is only allowed to trickle down to you through the menacing terms of the unwavering duopoly. Both duopoly members are giving you a crap deal. Side-loading is not a viable business strategy, perhaps due to the way it's implemented on Android (more of a convenience for edge cases).

The duopoly acts as a market monopoly. Consumer choice is not being served well by the Crap Store Cartel.

They both charge 30% because it’s industry standard. Why do sports games resell the same game with update rosters when they could sync roster updates with league databases?

Why do developers release version 2 of an app before they fix bugs in version 1?

Why do calculator apps have a subscription?

Because apps were a gold rush and now the western slope is dry so they are all fighting over the remaining pyrite.

 

[topdrawer]

They both charge 30% because it’s industry standard. Why do sports games resell the same game with update rosters when they could sync roster updates with league databases?

Why do developers release version 2 of an app before they fix bugs in version 1?

Why do calculator apps have a subscription?

Because apps were a gold rush and now the western slope is dry so they are all fighting over the remaining pyrite.

"industry standard" is such a ******** cop out.

 

[leman]

Should you as the consumer have the right to repair your device with a cheaper third-party screen or replace the battery on your own? Or does Apple own that right? After all, maybe you as the consumer may choose an inferior screen or battery, and Apple is "protecting" you from making such a decision.

That is only one side of the story. The other one is that Apple is directly or indirectly responsible for the quality and integrity of your device. I wouldn’t be comfortable as a manufacturer in offering warranty for a tightly integrated product that has been modified by an unknown entity. Not to mention that the perceived quality of the phone will decline if many are outfitted by aftermarket parts.

 

[Naaaaak]

The goal is to get rid of unreal games.

How does this serve consumer choice?

Apple asserted that Fortnite violated App Store "rules" (which are nebulous, always changing, and never applied equally).

Apple's response was not only to yank Fortnite, but threaten to revoke Epic's access to ALL Apple platforms, even those outside the Crap Store by canceling their dev account. Without being able to update UE, 1000s of other developers face eventual dead projects on Apple platforms.

How is moving to kill UE a laudable goal or right to do to the developers that use UE?

Are killing UE games a move to push consumers to Crapple Arcade subscriptions as the only supported way to game? Anti-competitive much?

How is this not pure evil from Apple?

 

[burgerrecords]

Some of you people really like certain companies

 

[leman]

This punishes consumers and indie developers, not Epic. Consumers won’t get access to games that devs have worked on for years on the platform they are stuck on. A developer can’t just snap their fingers and switch to Unity.

Epic does not need a dev account to develop the Unreal Engine. Apple dev tools are free. And should Epic need access to pre-release software, their employees can use individual dev accounts. The only practical consequence of losing the dev privileges is that Epic can’t publish new apps in their name. If they claim anything else they are blatantly lying.

Apple is literally blackmailing Epic at this point - they are asking for the government to drop some ridiculous regulations on them in their anti-trust case. In the end it is going to end up worse for Apple, Epic, and us.

It’s exactly the other way around - Epic is using their popularity and large user base to blackmail Apple, while additionally treating the indies as leverage.

 

[leman]

Without being able to update UE, 1000s of other developers face eventual dead projects on Apple platforms.

Again, Epic does not need a dev account to develop or offer UE. If they drop Apple platform support, that would be solely and one-sidedly Epic’s decision. The main point of the dev account is that it allows you to publish and sell apps. Developer tools etc. are free and can be used without a dev account.

 

[MadeTheSwitch]

There is no legal precedent for causing something like this to change. The comparison with the Microsoft vs US case is not a valid comparison because Microsoft went out of their way to prevent Netscape from being both developed and distributed. Its not because Microsoft was "big" as people just assume.

Until there is similar evidence, I don't see how governments can force something like this. As stated multiple times, a Monopoly is not illegal. Microsoft vs US was not because of monopoly. It was due to other actions.

Not talking about previous cases involving MS. I am talking about here and now and how many people, organizations and government bodies are against Apple at the moment. This momentum is like nothing we have seen before, and something WILL change because of it. Now, I don’t know what will change, but something will. All that energy doesn’t just go nowhere.

 

[cmaier]

Apple asserted that Fortnite violated App Store "rules" (which are nebulous, always changing, and never applied equally).

Apple's response was not only to yank Fortnite, but threaten to revoke Epic's access to ALL Apple platforms, even those outside the Crap Store by canceling their dev account. Without being able to update UE, 1000s of other developers face eventual dead projects on Apple platforms.

You forgot the part where Fortnite actually DID violate a rule, and where the rule was not “nebulous,” was not “always changing,” and has been applied equally.

 

[leman]

Some of you people really like certain companies

Yeah, and that’s just silly. Customers should not get emotional about corporate wars of this kind. Let them fight it out.

 

[Ulfric]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295435205440921601

 

[Rogifan]

Apple fires back at Epic: ‘We won’t make an exception’

“The problem Epic has created for itself is one that can easily be remedied.”

www.theverge.com

What a misleading statement from Apple. Epic doesn’t want a special deal. They want Apple to change policies for everyone. They knew what they did was going to get them kicked off the App Store.

 

[leman]

. How are you going to run Unreal-engine games? Jailbreak your device (and probably void your Crapple warranty and right to repair)? It's completely unreasonable. Good luck building a company and offering something to consumers with the "gotta jailbreak first" business model.

You run them just as you run them before. Unreal engine is a library shipped with your app, using your dev account. Eoic does not need a corporate dev account to ship yiu a library.

 

[leman]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295465982983626752

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295435205440921601

Epic is lying. They don’t need a corporate dev account to develop and support UE. They only need it to publish and sell apps. Don’t fall for their blackmail.

 

[Ethosik]

Apple fires back at Epic: ‘We won’t make an exception’

“The problem Epic has created for itself is one that can easily be remedied.”

www.theverge.com

What a misleading statement from Apple. Epic doesn’t want a special deal. They want Apple to change policies for everyone. They knew what they did was going to get them kicked off the App Store.

They don't want special treatment, but break a contract and complain about it? Okay.....

It would have been much better if Epic pulled Fortnite themselves to make a statement. But they just wanted to make Apple look bad.

 

[Seend1983]

Maybe Epic's little game will get US lawmakers down the road of looking into regulating the predatory and exploitative gaming industry. If so, something good might come out of this idiotic episode after all

 

[leman]

Apple fires back at Epic: ‘We won’t make an exception’

“The problem Epic has created for itself is one that can easily be remedied.”

www.theverge.com

What a misleading statement from Apple. Epic doesn’t want a special deal. They want Apple to change policies for everyone. They knew what they did was going to get them kicked off the App Store.

The only thing Epic wants is more profits for themselves. Which is a reasonable position for a company. Their calculated provocation could also be understood. Them blackmailing the indie by threatening to stop supporting the Unreal Engine on Apple platform however is a really low and crappy blow. Leave indies out of it. I hope that there is a class action against Epic if they decide to go through with it.

 

[coolfactor]

Apple is as bad as MS of their era.

The amount of pro-Apple bias, even on a fan site like MR is unbelievable.

The same people would have rooted against the MS monopoly of past, now rooting for the Apple monopoly (cause Apple is somehow their friend).

That Apple can even cut out a company that displeases them shows how artificially locked-down their devices are. No consumer wins from that.

You can't compare MS to Apple. People hated MS of the past because of their dominance combined with a shoddy quality experience. Windows was a nightmare, but it was "necessary". Apple *excels* at delivering an exceptional user experience, and macOS and iOS have matched or surpassed Windows in terms of capability and reliability.

The long list of what Epic will lose just goes to show you what that 30% is paying for! It's a LOT. This is stuff that Apple continues to invest into year after year after year. You can't expect a one-time developer fee to cover the cost of that. No, the 30% covers that cost, and it's fair.

 

[tadasZ]

I can't believe there are people defending Apple, well at least until i'll see what violations did Epic do to deserve complete ban, isn't it enough to remove that ****** game alone? why to ban whole account? What did unreal engine do bad - create opportunity to bypass app store rules? Not good apple, not good.

 

[Ethosik]

I can't believe there are people defending Apple, well at least until i'll see what violations did Epic do to deserve complete ban, isn't it enough to remove that ****** game alone? why to ban whole account? What did unreal engine do bad - create opportunity to bypass app store rules? Not good apple, not good.

This isn't an "oopsie" moment. Epic knew what they were doing and they knew full well they were breaking the Terms of Service. That gets more of a harsher treatment than "Oops I added something that broke the ToS. Sorry I will fix it right away".