Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I can't believe there are people defending Apple, well at least until i'll see what violations did Epic do to deserve complete ban, isn't it enough to remove that ****** game alone? why to ban whole account? What did unreal engine do bad - create opportunity to bypass app store rules? Not good apple, not good.

This has nothing to do with unreal engine. Epic does not need a corporate dev account to develop the unreal engine. They are just using their position to blackmail Apple and game devs simultaneously.
 
Something similar happened with flash. You might say that flash was only good because it was popular. Without iOS it died. If Apple and Google blocks apps made with Unreal than developers might just avoid Unreal to ensure their game is eligible.

If Flash was good technology, then Apple would have had no problem with it. But it was the biggest vector for malware and security breaches across Mac and Windows, and Steve Jobs would not have that. It had to go.
 
I’m as big of a fan of Apple as anyone else here... but defending Apple on this is weird to me. You LIKE paying more for things as a consumer because of the high cut Apple takes because they can? Should Microsoft take 30% of every windows program, that you in turn pay for?

I think there is a gap in perception with arguments similar to yours. The whole reason Apple Take a cut is that they provide a managed, safer and pretty much closed-off environment. I feel safer buying apps through Apple, and using them on iOS etc. A typical case made is that all Apple devices are general computing devices, unlike consoles, and should be allowed to install whatever. I would argue that they are more similar to modern, tightly controlled consoles thereby justifying the fees involved (which to reiterate, are clearly stated when signing up as a developer).
You can disagree with Apple as much as you like, but you cannot pretend to be surprised by any of this. And Epic of all companies isn't even selling something useful with their iAP, literally cosmetic cash (Vbucks). As a games designer myself(and a gamer), Pay-to-Wins and cosmetics feel like they've damaged the industry more than anything Apple has or hasn't done. Gaming hasn't historically felt that at home on Apple devices, anyhow.
 
If Flash was good technology, then Apple would have had no problem with it. But it was the biggest vector for malware and security breaches across Mac and Windows, and Steve Jobs would not have that. It had to go.

Flash and Unreal are functionally the same. They are giving Apple a headache.
 
This has nothing to do with unreal engine. Epic does not need a corporate dev account to develop the unreal engine. They are just using their position to blackmail Apple and game devs simultaneously.

I think they do need one if I’m reading about it correctly. They can’t optimize unreal for iOS without Apple Developers.

That said, if Epic is going to try and get developers on their side than Apple is going to put Epic in a tight spot by banning unreal. Who is going to risk using that engine if their app could get denied for it? And developing for android alone is risky because iOS customers are more likely to pay.
 

What a misleading statement from Apple. Epic doesn’t want a special deal. They want Apple to change policies for everyone. They knew what they did was going to get them kicked off the App Store.

Of course they want a special deal. Why would epic care what any other developer gets? Epic wants the right to charge its own 30% rent on apps sold through its own App Store on a platform it didn’t create and doesn’t need to maintain.
 
What are the “several violations of the Apple Developer Program License Agreement” that Apple is accusing Epic of?

Sections 2.1, 2.3.1, 3.1.1, and 5.6 to name some examples.

Fortnite was removed from sale, so how does this now create additional violations? Is Apple demanding Epic “fix” Fortnite so it can be made “Read for Sale”? If so that is clearly a bully tactic because it is forcing Epic to re-post an app Epic may not want in the Apple store. Fortnite may not be a commercially viable product if it can only be sold in Apple’s App store, so it is within Epic’s rights to not offer it for sale on iOS.


This makes no sense.

I've been a developer on Apple platforms for decades now - both as part of fortune 100 companies, and small independent "concerns" (including my own). There is widespread reporting that Apple developers are angry at Apple but are afraid of them so they remain silent. I agree with this sentiment. I'm not afraid of Apple because I just don't care anymore, but I guess I can be counted as being silent.

Apple knows developers are fearful and use this fear to create “self-censorship” amongst developers.

"Widespread" is subjective. Regardless, the majority of developers are much happier on iOS than other platforms simply because the development experience is far better. Xcode and App Store Connect is far from perfect, but many developers share my sentiment when I say, I very much rather deal with the iOS install base vs the Android fragmented install base.

But in some strange way Apple (or part of Apple) doesn’t know they know it, or maybe they just don’t get it. Apple is desperately seeking participation in their developer feedback survey - so much so that they plaster the survey link on just about every developer program web page. Developers used to get invited to participate in a survey about every 2 years, so this change is very telling. Developers are abandoning Apple platforms like rats from a sinking ship and Apple can’t figure out why.

You inferred all of that from seeing survey links on the website?

News flash: I got invited to participate in the survey every year for at least the past 5 years (likely when Phil Schiller took over the App Store). It's certainly not every 2 years. All of this while Apple's services revenue has only accelerated since then. In fact, I just got invited a week ago for this year's survey. "Developers are abandoning Apple platforms" is patently false.
 
Apple is not a monopoly and has nothing to do with Apple bias. They hold 14% share of the smart phone market. I chose iOS because it is a safe controlled platform. Apple is my only option for that. You want to side load apps and have multiple stores, you can do what the other 86% of the market has done.

Epic knew the rules, signed an agreement and even uses some of Apple's code for their unreal engine. Apple is not kicking them out. Even now. They are saying abide by the rules you agreed to. If Epic wanted to protest, there were other ways of doing so. Epic chose to disregard the consequences that their own company would face. Even if they are successful in the end, this will take years to resolve and cost them dearly. Its their dumb fault for doing it this way.

Whaaaat???!!! Apple is not a monopoly and only has 14% market share?!?!?!

Where are you getting your statistics from? Those numbers might have been true in 2010 LOL


Their US smartphone market share is over 58%!!!

A31A1112-2053-435D-9382-B06B958FC069.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: PC_tech
I think they do need one if I’m reading about it correctly. They can’t optimize unreal for iOS without Apple Developers.

They don’t need it and they can. Believe me. I am a registered Apple dev. The only important thing you need the account for is selling apps in your own name. You can develop for any Apple device without a dev account. Besides, Epic employees could use their own accounts for development of they need access to pre-release software for example.

That said, if Epic is going to try and get developers on their side than Apple is going to put Epic in a tight spot by banning unreal. Who is going to risk using that engine if their app could get denied for it? And developing for android alone is risky because iOS customers are more likely to pay.

Apple cannot ban Unreal. It’s a framework. Apple does not dictate which libraries you can use as a developer.
 
You can’t expect to live in somebody’s house rent free. Apple have build that eco system to be what it is today, I would expect to pay the 30% also. Same as what all console manufacturer charge!
 
Sigh, looking grimmer and grimmer. I’m definitely packing up my things in iOS now. Getting all my stuff ready to go. Y’all said Android is the other option, well, time to take it. I’m not dealing with this level of compromise.
what games on iOS are you actually playing that is using unreal?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seanz
They don’t need it and they can. Believe me. I am a registered Apple dev. The only important thing you need the account for is selling apps in your own name. You can develop for any Apple device without a dev account. Besides, Epic employees could use their own accounts for development of they need access to pre-release software for example.



Apple cannot ban Unreal. It’s a framework. Apple does not dictate which libraries you can use as a developer.

The rest of the news media, including Epic, disagree with you.
 
On iPhone OS they used to :)

Can you clarify? I am not aware of a single case when an app got rejected for using a particular library. Apple evaluates apps based on their overall functionality, not the components they include.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yurc
What’s reasonable? Zero is reasonable. Why should companies that sell digital goods subsidize Apple and other companies with apps who don’t have to pay Apple a dime?

Developer APIs aren't free to make. Developer Apple Maps SDK costs Apple millions of dollars to run. Distribution servers (including in China where even Google doesn't have one for their Play store) cost millions of dollars. and on and on...
 
The verge article today has EPIC Vs Apple impacting Apple directly now.



I think we are all starting to see how big a revenue source the iOS/iPad App Store actually is. Its huge. Likely second to their iPhone revenue.

I’m gonna have to kindly disagree with you. I don’t think you quite realize how much money at this company actually makes to say that the App Store is going to be a big source of revenue for them.

Now taking to consideration these two articles are not over the exact same time span, but they do have the majority of which overlapping. Now the earnings article is just for the fourth quarter last year, but it’s generally something where they’re making 150+ billion a year. The 50 billion that they made last year they only kept 30% of,
The verge article today has EPIC Vs Apple impacting Apple directly now.



I think we are all starting to see how big a revenue source the iOS/iPad App Store actually is. Its huge. Likely second to their iPhone revenue.

Read this article, and then reconsider your thoughts on the App Store been a huge source of revenue for them. Now I want disagree that it is a substantial amount of money, but it’s nothing compared to what they make in a year selling all of their other products and services. 30% of 50 billion is a mere 15 billion.

I mean really, just in there for fourth quarter of last year, they made 64 Billion. That’s over 4 times larger in one quarter than their cut of the App Store for the whole year.

That 15 spread across 4 quarters is a measly 3.5 billion. That’s over 18 times smaller than what they made in their4th quarter earnings.

Some of you commenting would know this if you owned or even watched their stock and related news.

You don’t become a $2 trillion company only because of the almost $100 Billion cut you’ve taken before you’ve paid out to developers almost $200 Billion.

Epic didn’t think anything would go wrong for them, but look at how they are about to lose so much more than iOS access. Unreal Engine is a core part of their business that’ll be gone. They will fold, shut up, and sit in the corner like a good sheep developer from their nineteen eight fortnite video. They are not going to hurt Apple, and don’t bring enough to Apple for the company to care about losing them.
 
The rest of the news media, including Epic, disagree with you.

Epic is simply lying to get leverage. And any media outlet who says that banning Eoic dev account makes them unable to develop UE don’t understand how software development on Apple platforms work.

P.S. You don’t have to believe my word. You are welcome to go download Xcode, make an iOS app and deploy it on your iPhone for testing. You will see that you don’t need a dev account to do any of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yurc
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.