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iPod Apple to abandon next gen HDD based iPod...

Actually, I don't see a need to have my complete music collection on my iPod - at least not until the iPod software improves.

Think of the person who wants to shuffle his Christmas selection or his Children's music selection or any other playlist. iTunes/iPod doesn't quite do this conveniently - so when Christmas is over, we leave that playlist on the computer (where it gets backed up).

But some people want everything on the iPod, and they will pay for the capacity.

My pictures take more space than anything else - but they're pretty useless without the ability to have sub-folders or some other type of organizing tools. But if I could connect my iPod to a big screen and have it easy to find particular pictures - I would store them in full resolution taking up more space.
 
I don't like streaming. All of my streaming experiences have been poor.

I like store-forward. I wanted to see the video of the latest Apple ad the other day. I was nowhere near high bandwidth and of course I do not have either EDGE or Wimax. So using a computer sufficietly old IT STILL HAD A MODEM, I downloaded the video in small format and watched portions of it as it was in mid-download.

You all have experienced this I am sure. Streaming signals break up and hang. They suck. It MIGHT be slightly better with an IN HOME 802.11n network, but we will see.

If you have an iPhone (ATN :) ) and want to watch a VIDEO, chances are either you planed ahead and downloaded it before you departed a high speed connection or are downloading a short video clip for work or youtube or something.

The technology to mobile download and store multiple videos on a handheld device is just not here yet and 8Gb ain't gonna help much either, especially since that has to have a half a Gb for OS and another couple of Gb for music, etc.

WHEN wimax fully arrives and is deployed we will have, nearly free, always on, internet in our hands, everywhere, with near brodnand speeds. But until that day areives we still live in the real world. The store-forward world.

Just like usenet, email, quicktime and web pages.

Rocketman

/= streaming
 
Rocketman said:
I don't like streaming. All of my streaming experiences have been poor.

-snip-
Click to expand...
I'm not a huge fan of streaming, but I will say that the highspeed cell services are getting pretty good. The newer Sprint stuff is, in real world conditions, as fast as early DSL (768kbps) which is pretty decent for streaming small content.

Streaming in a .11g environment is pretty perfect, so I expect .11n to just improve upon that. Again, I'm not a fan of streaming either, but the technology is improving and it's become a realistic option for the future.

That said, I'd rather have it (content) local.
 
BenRoethig said:
If a 8gb Flash nano is $250, the price for a 36gb video iPod is going to be astronomical.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If you buy 4 nanos to get 32 GB, yes, but not really if you get 1 w/ 32 GB. Don't forget that that $250 also goes to the screen, click wheel, audio chips, whatever other parts needed, the labor of putting it together, R&D costs, advertising and profit. I remember reading somewhere that the bill of materials (flash chips, screen, everything physical) actually costs like $150 or something. So Apple might sell a 32 GB Nano for $299 or something.
 
"We believe that ... blah blah blah" -- some guy. Who cares what this person is SPECULATING?! This is some big news. If Apple is truly considering this, they'd be keeping it closer to the vest than this. Apple knows that it can't EDUCATE the world that BIGGER IPODS ARE BETTER and then snatch them away and say "The smaller storage is really better now, trust us."

We might see the 6G iPod come out with the smaller size flash drives (think iPhone size [hopefully bigger screen that's truer to 16:9]) -- but they'll keep making the 5.5G iPod and maybe even increase its harddrive size. Maybe we'll see a 100GB 5.5G iPod along side the new 6G that's 32GB.

I seriously doubt they'll completely remove the current form factor, it's been too popular. Of course, I thought the MINI would stick around too. Of course, in a very big way, it's back now and just named NANO.

My 2¢
 
I have been waiting for this new iPod for over a year now. I think Apple has come up with a full screen iPod, but for several reasons did not release the product.

The iPod is their number one product, and if there is any issues they are just not going to release it. I think the two main concerns are battery life and content. I just does not make any sense to release a full screen iPod that has a battery life of 3.5 hours, and 250 movies available for download through iTunes store.

When those two issues are addressed and improved, then we will see this supposedly full screen iPod. Also, don't expect to see the full screen iPod under 400.00...:(
 
i have a different take....

the reason I don't see Apple going away with HD is the fact that there is not much merit design-wise. Let's say Apple goes for ultrathin flash-based iPod. Wouldn't it be so thin that it might bend?

and if Apple keeps the iPod size same but put in flash drive instead of HD, what goods would it bring besides Apple losing profits because they use more expensive components by using flash?

Also, people seem to forget that when Apple went away from mini to nano, actual price per GB increased because 4gb nano was originally priced at $249, same price of 8gb mini. In this logic, Apple might sell 16gb flash video iPod at $249 (by dropping nano price) or $299 (by not dropping nano price). 32gb flash would be at $349 or $399. Who in the right mind would pay more to get less?
 
syklee26 said:
i have a different take....

the reason I don't see Apple going away with HD is the fact that there is not much merit design-wise. Let's say Apple goes for ultrathin flash-based iPod. Wouldn't it be so thin that it might bend?

and if Apple keeps the iPod size same but put in flash drive instead of HD, what goods would it bring besides Apple losing profits because they use more expensive components by using flash?

Also, people seem to forget that when Apple went away from mini to nano, actual price per GB increased because 4gb nano was originally priced at $249, same price of 8gb mini. In this logic, Apple might sell 16gb flash video iPod at $249 (by dropping nano price) or $299 (by not dropping nano price). 32gb flash would be at $349 or $399. Who in the right mind would pay more to get less?
Click to expand...

The 8GB nano costs the same as the 30 GB iPod...
 
syklee26 said:
i have a different take....

the reason I don't see Apple going away with HD is the fact that there is not much merit design-wise. Let's say Apple goes for ultrathin flash-based iPod. Wouldn't it be so thin that it might bend?

and if Apple keeps the iPod size same but put in flash drive instead of HD, what goods would it bring besides Apple losing profits because they use more expensive components by using flash?

Also, people seem to forget that when Apple went away from mini to nano, actual price per GB increased because 4gb nano was originally priced at $249, same price of 8gb mini. In this logic, Apple might sell 16gb flash video iPod at $249 (by dropping nano price) or $299 (by not dropping nano price). 32gb flash would be at $349 or $399. Who in the right mind would pay more to get less?
Click to expand...

Then, why are we going to spend 499 and 599 for an iPhone with 4gb and 8gb capacity...

Apple knows that people will buy their products at a higher price, since their products are better than any other products in the market today.
 
guzhogi said:
Not necessarily. If you buy 4 nanos to get 32 GB, yes, but not really if you get 1 w/ 32 GB. Don't forget that that $250 also goes to the screen, click wheel, audio chips, whatever other parts needed, the labor of putting it together, R&D costs, advertising and profit. I remember reading somewhere that the bill of materials (flash chips, screen, everything physical) actually costs like $150 or something. So Apple might sell a 32 GB Nano for $299 or something.
Click to expand...
More than half of the materials cost is the memory, and one must realize that capacity-price does not scale linearly. If 8GB costs $80, that doesn't mean that 32GB costs $320. 32GB could cost easily $400, $450, or more.

Look at RAM, hard drives, or even CPU clock speeds. The top end has an accelerated pricing curve, which is generally used to offset slimmer margins lower down the chain. Without the "bleeding edge" markup, every price would be higher to compensate.
 
guzhogi said:
Not necessarily. If you buy 4 nanos to get 32 GB, yes, but not really if you get 1 w/ 32 GB. Don't forget that that $250 also goes to the screen, click wheel, audio chips, whatever other parts needed, the labor of putting it together, R&D costs, advertising and profit. I remember reading somewhere that the bill of materials (flash chips, screen, everything physical) actually costs like $150 or something. So Apple might sell a 32 GB Nano for $299 or something.
Click to expand...

But, this memory is still relatively new.

I just passed 30 Gigs on my 60 Gig iPod with music and video. I expect to fill the 60 Gig - just in time for a newer, higher capacity iPod (hopefully with a widescreen).

How much is a 60 Gig or 80 Gig flash iPod gonna cost???
 
mrgreen4242 said:
I'm going to disagree with you here. I haven't watched anything on a 5G iPod yet, but I have watched plenty of things on small screens (PDAs, etc) and it's no problem at all. I would agree subtitles are just not doable, but that's a limitation I'm willing to accept. Not being widescreen is a bit of a problem, but as you point out it's so small already that it's not really a concern at that point.

Ok, here's where I REALLY disagree with you. Yes, HD looks great. I have an HDTV and it's terrific. But DVD looks really good on it. Maybe you DVD player sucks, but even on my modest RCA upconverting set DVD looks really nice. A well mastered DVD has very minimal artifacting, and while there is a little grain to it I find it's barely noticeable, and when it is I almost sort of like it... reminds me of the grain in film when I go to the theatre. DVD even looks nice on my 480p DLP projector at ~96", and that's coming from my $20 cheap-o DVD player. Again, some grain but not terrible and I ALMOST prefer the grain to super smooth textures.
Click to expand...

First of all, thank you for this constructive reply.

My roommate borrowed me his iPod video for 2 weeks (believe it or not) and I played aroudn with it quite a lot. It's cool to be able to watch the Simpsons while sitting on the john. You can read the credits at the end, but it is kinda hard to actually watch a 22 minute episode on the iPod. That may be me, I just don't like it. It's great for short clips, video podcasts and pron I guess (ever seen high def pron? It's amazing! :rolleyes: ).

I just said DVDs look pretty bad compared to high def. They even have CRT screens that do 720p now, to me it looks way better than any flat panel. Only problem is, the don't make those CRTs in big.
 
I think the title of this thread is wrong. I do not read anything about apple abandoning next gen hdd iPods. i can see that they may make all there music players ie iPods flash based but not on a high capacity level. EG up to 20gb nanos for music only. I do think however apple are going to bring out a true video device but not call it or put it in the iPod category. Jobs is very critical when talking about iPods,. He states (often) they are music players with other capabilites eg photos, videos. I think the true video iPod will be called something different and it will eat into the PMP (portable media player) market and be a different product line alltogether. and in addition still be hard drive based. So guys worrying about their high capacity ipods not having a future I would not. I have 80gb Ipod. I record tv shows and have many photos and tunes and am at 74gb full. I am not worried I am just waiting for widescreen high capacity device but I do not expect it to be called an Ipod.
 
The Scotsman said:
I think the title of this thread is wrong. I do not read anything about apple abandoning next gen hdd iPods. i can see that they may make all there music players ie iPods flash based but not on a high capacity level. EG up to 20gb nanos for music only. I do think however apple are going to bring out a true video device but not call it or put it in the iPod category. Jobs is very critical when talking about iPods,. He states (often) they are music players with other capabilites eg photos, videos. I think the true video iPod will be called something different and it will eat into the PMP (portable media player) market and be a different product line alltogether. and in addition still be hard drive based. So guys worrying about their high capacity ipods not having a future I would not. I have 80gb Ipod. I record tv shows and have many photos and tunes and am at 74gb full. I am not worried I am just waiting for widescreen high capacity device but I do not expect it to be called an Ipod.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Apple has already started, "AppleTV" to show that it's a media device...

Maybe a portable video device to match would be "ApplePV"? Maybe to close to "TV"...
 
MrCrowbar said:
First of all, thank you for this constructive reply.

My roommate borrowed me his iPod video for 2 weeks (believe it or not) and I played aroudn with it quite a lot. It's cool to be able to watch the Simpsons while sitting on the john. You can read the credits at the end, but it is kinda hard to actually watch a 22 minute episode on the iPod. That may be me, I just don't like it. It's great for short clips, video podcasts and pron I guess (ever seen high def pron? It's amazing! :rolleyes: ).

I just said DVDs look pretty bad compared to high def. They even have CRT screens that do 720p now, to me it looks way better than any flat panel. Only problem is, the don't make those CRTs in big.
Click to expand...

My CRT does 1080i (30-inch) and will upconvert 720p to 1080i (albeit crappily). I'm not sure if there are any native 720p CRTs on the market. Could be, but seems unlikely they'd bother. I used to watch all kinds of shows on my PDA (3.5" screen, same res as the iPod, though) and really enjoyed it.

The real key, imo, is not so much the size of the screen but the comfort of the setup. If you have to hold the iPod in front of you for 22 minutes then it's going to suck. If you have a nice setup where you can set the iPod down and have it held up at the correct angle and a comfortable viewing distance then it's not all that bad (or wasn't with the PDA anyways). I rigged up a little cardboard holder for my PDA to get the right angles/distance on my desk at work when I was using it to watch shows and it was fine. The iPod has a case that actually fold out into a similar holder for it.

Anyways, back to the original topic, of DVDs vs HD... your absolutely right that HD looks superior to DVD. I just think the difference is small enough that the DVD still has use and plenty of life left in it.
 
Evangelion said:
true, but flash is getting cheaper per GB faster than HD's are. So sooner or later Flash will overtake magnetic media. I actually saw a graph about thise last week (IIRC). it showed the two to be more or less equal right now.
Click to expand...


For some sizes, but not for other sizes. You don't see people replacing their hard drives in computers yet. I agreed with Jerry Pournelle way before Byte died, that hard drives would be replaced soon. We were wrong. Maybe this time we're close.
 
MacRumorUser said:
Is it not just likely they will offer 2 different ipods. one based on solid state and one with a hdd ?
Click to expand...

Certainly - but the difference will blur - right now there's a buffer between the hard drive and the song. I can see a power savings in copying recent or often played songs from the hard drive to flash memory before playing.
 
I think it would be a very bad idea to move to iPods with less storage than they have now. People have large music/video libraries which are only going to get larger. I sure hope they don't stop sellin the larger hard drive iPods I wouldn't be able to fit all my music on anymore, and really isn't that the whole point?
 
"It's the music stupid...." My 80GB is full, Bring on 100, 120, 250 GB iPods so I can load in more of music to take with me...everywhere!!! I doubt that would be flash based.
 
matticus008 said:
More than half of the materials cost is the memory, and one must realize that capacity-price does not scale linearly. If 8GB costs $80, that doesn't mean that 32GB costs $320. 32GB could cost easily $400, $450, or more.

Look at RAM, hard drives, or even CPU clock speeds. The top end has an accelerated pricing curve, which is generally used to offset slimmer margins lower down the chain. Without the "bleeding edge" markup, every price would be higher to compensate.
Click to expand...

Very true. I just wanted to point out that the flash chips aren't the only thing that add to cost.
 
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