Apple to Adopt RCS Messaging Standard for Better Interoperability With Android Devices

[masotime]

I'm surprised at the passionate debate between SMS and RCS and iMessage parity. I personally think they are all bad - I like choice, and the ultimate choice is being able to use Telegram / WhatsApp / Signal which is independent of any cellular service provider (you just need data) and way ahead any of those in terms of features.

IMO Net Neutrality is a much more important issue. Data needs to be a utility, it shouldn't be possible for corporations to selectively control data rates on data based on the content (like Verizon does with streaming video...)

 

[Amazing Iceman]

alternatively, Apple messages on Google would be a far superior solution

Apple will require 1 paid plan for Android users if they don't have an Apple device to use it (so the cheapest would be the lowest tier iCloud storage).

Then the Droidheads, FCC, EU and the rest would file Antitrust Lawsuits against Apple.

 

[ki77erb]

Point me to any Google statement that says they do NOT have any way to access to the encryption keys, even in response to a national security letter.

Point me to any Apple statement that says that they do NOT have any way to access to the encryption keys, even in response to a national security letter.

I have asked for this a couple of times and it has not been forth coming.

Because that isn't how E2EE works. Google uses the Signal protocol and will eventually use the MLS protocol. Reading up on those open standards is where you would probably want to start.

 

[StyxMaker]

Aqua, color theory: GREEN + BLUE

As a rather seriously red/green colorblind person I find all this color talk to be discriminatory ; )>

 

[boss.king]

And what would their defense be when people rightfully roasted them for not prioritizing their users' privacy?

The same as it's always been — if you care about privacy, use iMessage. I believe Tim's quote was "buy your mom an iPhone"

You don't think the EU will require encryption on RCS? With all of the boasting Apple does regarding privacy and security, it would be insane not to take advantage of the support on RCS. The EU will not take kindly to Apple intentionally hobbling RCS security in order to boost iMessage.

Does the EU require encryption for all other RCS protocols? I don't think they do. As long as Apple complies with the basic RCS spec, which I believe doesn't require encryption, they'd be fine legally. It wouldn't technically be hobbling RCS. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if they did implement encryption and made RCS on iOS as good as it could be, I just don't think that they will.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

I'm so glad they came to this decision by themselves and not through regulation.

It's pretty sad the best iPhone additions have to come from government intervention and not because Apple wants to make a good product. Case in point: USB-C. The USB-C iPhones should've happened 4 years ago. It's absolutely asinine it took the EU putting their foot down for the change to happen that made the iPhone objectively better.

If this doesn't tell you the state of modern Apple I don't know what does.

 

[kc9hzn]

Though this is a good move for the public, I would say this is a death sentence to Apple.

I have no switch cost to go buy an Android phone now. Before, I wouldn't even remotely consider an Android.

No, iMessage still has a lot of features RCS doesn’t (including end to end encryption, that’s not part of the RCS Universal Profile).

 

[kc9hzn]

See?? I told yall if they adopted RCS it would be the UP and not Google's version. So it really doesn't amount to anything unless Google's will cross-communicate with UP, which I haven't seen whether it will or not. But beyond that, it's still up to your provider to adopt it on their end or it doesn't matter.

I think Google’s version does, but only as a fallback (similar to how iOS falls back to SMS currently).

 

[M3gatron]

I am an Android user

That's a very general description that doesn't tell anything, especially regarding what device you have and how you communicate with other people.

and never used RCS so far. I would have to google how to do it. If it involves Google servers, I hope there is a way to opt out.

Well it's very very simple actually. See, when you want to write a message to somebody it already says in the Text Box "RCS Message", if RCS doesn't work it says Text Message which is SMS.
RCS works automatically especially on Android phones from the last 3 years(not limited to it).
Also RCS Messages are end to end encrypted, so what if they pass through Google's servers? Google is very good at protecting data in general.

How end-to-end encryption in Google Messages provides more security - Google Messages

Google Messages supports end-to-end encryption when messaging other users using Google Messages over Rich Communication Services (R

support.google.com

 

[Mity]

SMS has both security flaws and is essentially featureless. No one is forcing a company to "destroy it's ecosystem" because nothing is changing for iPhone users communicating with other iPhone users. "Why is Google so keen on using iOS services?" What does that even mean? Google isn't using any iOS services here. "It makes no sense at all." Maybe that's because you don't seem to understand what all this means. Not trying to be mean, just basing that on your comment.

I understand perfectly well what the core problem is. Respectfully, I don't think you do.

This has nothing to do with security features of RCS. The core issue is that Apple has a 80%+ market share with teenagers and Google's demographic is increasingly becoming less relevant. This means iOS market share will increase at the expense of Android, especially in key demographics likely to make in-app purchases and buy other Apple products. For example, by not getting a "like" notification (as only iOS users would have) people are less likely to buy an Android phone. It has EVERYTHING to do with entering Apple's ecosystem.

 

[Mackie924]

The same as it's always been — if you care about privacy, use iMessage. I believe Tim's quote was "buy your mom an iPhone"


Does the EU require encryption for all other RCS protocols? I don't think they do. As long as Apple complies with the basic RCS spec, which I believe doesn't require encryption, they'd be fine legally. It wouldn't technically be hobbling RCS. Don't get me wrong, I'd love if they did implement encryption and made RCS on iOS as good as it could be, I just don't think that they will.

Well, with this, it's pretty much all moot, anyway.

Apple's flavor of RCS won't support Google's end-to-end encryption extension

Apple wants no part of Google's addition of end to-end encryption to RCS, and the iPhone maker will instead work with the standards body to mandate a universal version instead.

appleinsider.com

 

[kc9hzn]

Oh, like how all messages will go through Google's servers, is good for everyone? The article says nothing about Apple providing the server infrastructure which I am guessing they are not, just a connection to google's servers.

Not for me.

Apple said that they’re implementing RCS Universal Profile. I read that as a very pointed comment that they’re not implementing Jibe or any of Google’s stack.

 

[kc9hzn]

Apple Announces Intention to Support RCS Messages ‘Next Year’

Link to: https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024

daringfireball.net

"It’s a disgrace, in my opinion, that E2EE wasn’t a foundational part of the RCS spec from the start, but if Apple is going to support RCS, they should support RCS by-the-spec, not Google’s proprietary version."

Doesn't look like this is going to bring encryption, and will keep "green bubble" messages under tight control of your cell carrier. Modernizing features like group chats and rich media are still welcome.

Anyway, download signal.

Dang it, Google, you’re forcing me to agree with John Gruber on something! Shame on you!

 

[patlee2000]

I don't know why apple was so against this at first. This is good for everyone.

I don't think Apple was against it, that's more how it was framed by Google and Samsung. It was just not a high priority. Especially with all the bugs it could introduce to the message app vs the benefits iPhone users would get from it. I build apps and I can see how trying to add RCS could turn into a nightmare for them handling all edge cases on every devices. Keep in mind that adding RCS would also mean no new features added to the app. Which is understandable why they had no appetite for it.

 

[jakey rolling]

I'm surprised at the passionate debate between SMS and RCS and iMessage parity. I personally think they are all bad - I like choice, and the ultimate choice is being able to use Telegram / WhatsApp / Signal which is independent of any cellular service provider (you just need data) and way ahead any of those in terms of features.

Those other services are kind of out of scope of this conversation. RCS/SMS/iMessage has no bearing on how those other services operate, so really, they are about as irrelevant to this conversation as MSN Messenger and ICQ.

 

[SMH4KIDIOT]

Point me to any Google statement that says they do NOT have any way to access to the encryption keys, even in response to a national security letter.

Point me to any Apple statement that says that they do NOT have any way to access to the encryption keys, even in response to a national security letter.

I have asked for this a couple of times and it has not been forth coming.

Edit:

Even more this from WikiPedia
```
A backdoor is usually a secret method of bypassing normal authentication or encryption in a computer system, a product, an embedded device, etc.[36] Companies may also willingly or unwillingly introduce backdoors to their software that help subvert key negotiation or bypass encryption altogether. In 2013, information leaked by Edward Snowden showed that Skype had a backdoor which allowed Microsoft to hand over their users' messages to the NSA despite the fact that those messages were officially end-to-end encrypted.[37][38]
```

Essentially no answer given to you will satisfy your question so what's the point in asking. There is no such thing as perfect security, all encryption can be broke if you are motivated enough and have the resources and skills to do so which governments do.

 

[Gengar]

USB-C and now this? What a time to be alive.

 

[boss.king]

Well, with this, it's pretty much all moot, anyway.

Apple's flavor of RCS won't support Google's end-to-end encryption extension

Apple wants no part of Google's addition of end to-end encryption to RCS, and the iPhone maker will instead work with the standards body to mandate a universal version instead.

appleinsider.com

Huh, if that ends up being true then I'll be pleasantly surprised. Upgrading the standard itself is so much better than tacking on proprietary stuff.

 

[SactoGuy18]

By the way, the change may come earlier than people think. We could see RCS support an iOS 17.x version possibly by late spring 2024, well before iOS 18.0 arrives in September 2024.

 

[kc9hzn]

Why do some of you people insist on making stupid comments. The messages are E2EE meaning google does not have the security key to snoop into your messages no more than Apple has the key to open iMessage.

Encryption is not part of Universal Profile. That means that RCS messages sent to Android devices won’t be encrypted. Since basically everyone else uses Jibe, then it does mean that RCS messages to Android devices will go through Google controlled infrastructure unencrypted. How many times do we have to point out that encryption is not part of Universal Profile?

 

[ki77erb]

I understand perfectly well what the core problem is. Respectfully, I don't think you do.

This has nothing to do with security features of RCS. The core issue is that Apple has a 80%+ market share with teenagers and Google's demographic is increasingly becoming less relevant. This means iOS market share will increase at the expense of Android, especially in key demographics likely to make in-app purchases and buy other Apple products. For example, by not getting a "like" notification (as only iOS users would have) people are less likely to buy an Android phone. It has EVERYTHING to do with entering Apple's ecosystem.

But they aren't "entering Apple's ecosystem". Apple is adopting RCS. Google is not adopting or changing anything. You speculating about the reasons this is happening doesn't make it true. Nor does it change the fact that this is a positive win for both Apple and Android users with literally no perceivable consequences. You are complaining about something great happening for the entire community. Why???

 

[Brandon916]

USB-C and now this? What a time to be alive.

App store and sideloading coming next year.

 

[Mackie924]

Encryption is not part of Universal Profile. That means that RCS messages sent to Android devices won’t be encrypted. Since basically everyone else uses Jibe, then it does mean that RCS messages to Android devices will go through Google controlled infrastructure unencrypted. How many times do we have to point out that encryption is not part of Universal Profile?

No, that's not at all what that means. Google added E2E encryption on top of the Universal Profile, so messages between Android phones sent via Messages RCS are encrypted.

 

[MallardDuck]

So they're doing the published standard. Not the proprietary Google extensions.

I think this is intended to fend off regulatory requirements to open up iMessage itself (which I don't want - just more spam).

 

[psxp]

They will market it as “their invention “ to the masses