Apple To Buy TiVo?

[Thataboy]

I used to be a huge TiVo nut.

However, they fell behind with the times.

For YEARS now, I have not had a landline phone. TiVo sets should come with a wireless card, built in, standard. And 2 tuners. I know there were workarounds for these things, but they were costly and annoying.

So I switched to the cheaper cable company DVR. Everything is in one box, it is less expensive, it is just one cable to the wall, and it does the basic stuff I need (pause live TV, record series, online guide).

TiVo is in many ways a superior product, but it stopped innovating. Apple could probably turn the company around and leverage the technology for all sorts of great treats. An Apple TiVo™ could bring me back into the fold.

I mean, how many great patents must TiVo own... and buying a company when it is down is the right thing to do.

Of course, I also think that Apple should buy palmOne (not Source), create a mobile smartphone OS, and stick with just the Treo line (since PDA's are over)..... because Palm is also on the way out and we will be left with Windows CE. And this will help WMA and hurt AAC (as smartphones move to hard drives and become portable media machines). And who needs that.

 

[daddy-mojo]

they simplify it

I'm not sure this would be good. TiVo is on the rocks in terms of investors and long term viability. I think Apple would do well with a TiVo like device but if the stock price keeps going up they may end up paying more than what the company is actually worth.

I would also question the subscription model. I haven't used TiVo but done some research in to it, so if I'm wrong, please tell me so. To me, paying for TiVo is like paying a monthly fee to use your VCR. What does the subscription get you? A guide? Commercial skiping, live review, rewind? I don't want to pay for any of that. I can get a guide on my TV over an antenea. My DirecTV service comes with a guide. Rewinding, commercial skip, etc should all be HARDWARE items that I pay once for - not a subscription. But this is all information I have from salespeople so I would really like to know what all a subscription w/TiVo brings from those who use it.

To me its all more then worth it. Sure I could do without the monthly fee, but I don't even think about anymore, its just part of my directv subsciption (and doesn't that mean we're already only renting tv shows due to that being a subscription cable/satellite as well). And those who rent their cable dvr's for more then a year could have just bought and owned there own. I think part of the subscription thing is for future improvements/upkeep and such, being able to season pass a show, knowing what the schedule is looking like 2+ weeks in advance, skipping commercials (once you can do that, you'll never care about the fee). Through my Directv its $5 bucks I think. And if I got all the movie channel packages then they wave the fee all together. For me, its a small price to pay for the convience. And if you don't want any of that, then you're not wanting a tivo system then.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Even if this is false, it would be pretty damn cool to see this happen. Think about the possibilities... and Apple DID pioneer this market way back when with the Macintosh TV!

 

[jaw04005]

Not going to happen. TIVO is bleeding money. The future of DVRs are whatever box your local cable company offers. With the adoption of HDTV and Digital Cable, it makes TIVO almost impossible to use unless some standard is created to allow TIVO to interface with your HDTV/Digital Cable box/Satellite receiver. There is an effort going one to require card slots, but right now IR Blasters aren't getting the job done.

Not to mention, who wants to pay $12/month for DVR service? When your cable company is willing to rent you a DVR for $5/month.

 

[Porchland]

How Apple-Tivo would make sense

If Apple wants to be a player in the video content business, it's going to have to figure out a way to get content on your TV. Plain and simple. A Comcast/Time Warner/Charter/satellite cable box is how most people get content to their TV now. Most of the newer cable boxes are both recorders (DVRs) and video on demand terminals, i.e., (1) you can tape the content that's on TV and (2) download other stuff from your provider.

Tivo only does No. 1 but it does it REALLY well. And with TivoToGo, it has made that content portable. No. 2, video on demand, is essentially iTMS for video. If Apple is going to be a player in that market, it will have to get into my den a either A set-top box or THE set-top box, and I only want one.

Bottom line: If Apple buys Tivo, I think it's to develop a better set-top box. If Apple buys Tivo, I think you'll see Apple try and get deal with the cable carriers to supply their set-top boxes and content.

I've wondered for a while now how Apple would do for film and other visual content what it did for music. When iTMS came on to the market, its only competition was CDs and radio, but that wasn't a huge barrier to entry; iPod/iTMS replaced both CDs and radio for many users. How will uses get video content from Apple to their TVs without huge techn headaches? An Apple set-top box seems to me to be the answer.

EDIT:

The post directly above this one is talking about the same thing. Apple has much bigger hurdles to jump to get into the video content business. If Comcast doesn't bring the iWhatever video box to my door for an Apple-branded switch-a-roo, Apple is going to have a hard time competing for space with the oh-so-fantastic Comcast DVR/VOD box that's already there.

Apple might be able to do it better, but I don't need an Apple set-top box to see "The Sopranos" in my living room. That's the barrier to entry.

EDIT:

I'll have to say, after seeing a post about cable cards, I did some research on Tivo's Tahiti project, which is discussed here. If Tivo develops an HD-ready cable box that can deliver VOD and sit in place of the box provided by the cable carrier, most of what I wrote above is bunk.

"TiVo HD Digital Cable Ready DVR. This box will fully integrate an HD digital cable receiver and TiVo DVR in a single set top box. CableCARD technology will be built-in, giving consumers access to digital cable programming and other features of the TiVo service. With TiVo's new digital ready DVR and access to broadband content, consumers will have more choice, including ala carte programming options via the Internet versus paying for premium bundled packages from cable providers. The TiVo HD Digital Cable ready DVR is expected to be available in early 2006."

Oh. My. God. Imagine APPLE in charge of that! The press release is worth reading if your interested in what an Apple VOD/DVR product might look like.

 

[usarioclave]

Tivo dying? It's because of the cashola

Tivo - losing business strategy? What kind of drugs are you "guys" on? They just announced a record number of net number of subscribers for the end of January. Over 2 million.

TiVo dying? What drugs are you guys on? Look at the net number of subscribers. It went up something like 47% in January.

That metric is so 90s. Today, the important metric is "how long can they survive before they run out of money." In Tivo's case, the answer is "not long."

If you read their 10-Q, you'll see that Tivo's hardware costs are killing them. It's brutal.

At a minimum, they should start licensing (and enforcing) their DVR patents, so they can get revenue from the other DVR makers. As far as anyone knows their patents are valid, and DVR functionality sure wasn't obvious back then.

 

[lssmit02]

TiVo is Linux based, so ...

could migrate to a version of OS X?

 

[jaw04005]

To me its all more then worth it. Sure I could do without the monthly fee, but I don't even think about anymore, its just part of my directv subsciption (and doesn't that mean we're already only renting tv shows due to that being a subscription cable/satellite as well). And those who rent their cable dvr's for more then a year could have just bought and owned there own. I think part of the subscription thing is for future improvements/upkeep and such, being able to season pass a show, knowing what the schedule is looking like 2+ weeks in advance, skipping commercials (once you can do that, you'll never care about the fee). Through my Directv its $5 bucks I think. And if I got all the movie channel packages then they wave the fee all together. For me, its a small price to pay for the convience. And if you don't want any of that, then you're not wanting a tivo system then.

I have to give DirecTV and DISH props for charging the same price for their DVRs as they do their additional receivers. Each monthly service fee is $4.99/month, whether it be a DVR or a regular receiver.

By the way, DirecTV has announced that they are moving away from TIVO and developing their own DVR box. They showed it off at CES.

 

[bentmywookie]

What a steal!

Only $300 million?? Damn - I'd buy it!

 

[Sabon]

I don't know anyone paying more than $100 for TiVo

"At the end of the day it is not clear that people will pay $499 for the box, And I suspect that is where apple would need to price it in order to profit from it."

$499? Who the h*** is paying $499 for TiVo. Every ad I see is for $99 or less as long as you agree to a two year subscription to TiVo. I even see "three room TiVo" for Zero dollars (ok - $14.95 for shipping) with a two year subscription.

 

[ClarkeB]

Now all Apple needs to do is buy Netflix (or...iFlix) and they will have an iEntertainment iEmpire! Forget Microsoft...or better yet...forget Micro--who?

 

[ClarkeB]

Who the h*** is paying $499 for TiVo

I did, but it was the Humax DVD Recorder/Player with TiVo. Not to mention lifetime subscription.

 

[musiclover137]

so basically, i can have iTVS on my powerbook g5 next tuesday!?!?!!!

sweet. i'll spread the word and start looking for clues.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Not going to happen. TIVO is bleeding money. The future of DVRs are whatever box your local cable company offers. With the adoption of HDTV and Digital Cable, it makes TIVO almost impossible to use unless some standard is created to allow TIVO to interface with your HDTV/Digital Cable box/Satellite receiver. There is an effort going one to require card slots, but right now IR Blasters aren't getting the job done.

Not to mention, who wants to pay $12/month for DVR service? When your cable company is willing to rent you a DVR for $5/month.

Man some of you guys aren't up on current events.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/corporate/products/digitalcable/cablecard.html

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749531,00.asp

Cablecards are mandated by the FCC. You get premium channels and a cablecard device means you do not need the Cable Op box unless you want their on demand features. And why are you assuming that Apple would keep the $12.95 monthly fees. They could but they could also change this as well.

If you read their 10-Q, you'll see that Tivo's hardware costs are killing them. It's brutal.

At a minimum, they should start licensing (and enforcing) their DVR patents, so they can get revenue from the other DVR makers. As far as anyone knows their patents are valid, and DVR functionality sure wasn't obvious back then.

They can't afford to buy in bulk meaning their hardware is underperforming. They can't afford to protect their patents.

The industry does NOT want Apple to buy Tivo because Apple "can" enforce the patents and they can afford to have lower Hardware costs because of volume.

 

[tgibbs]

Skeptical

As a TiVo owner, I'd like to see this happen.

But I just don't see what's in it for Apple.

Apple is probably the only company in the world that has little to gain by acquiring the TiVo name. Apple's own name recognition is even better, and Apple would stand to gain more by linking a hypothetical Apple DVR to their own iPod than to the lesser known TiVo.

The TiVo interface is impressive for a consumer electronics product, but by Apple standards it is nothing special. Apple will presumably want to develop their own DVR interface, as they did for the iPod.

The current TiVo userbase is enthusiastic, but there are not enough of them to make money for TiVo. And existing TiVo hardware is useless for Apple's goals. Apple has made its commitment to HD and MPEG-4 clear; current stand-alone TiVo's will handle neither. Presumably, Apple would want to link a DVR product to something like the iTunes Music Store. For HD content this pretty much requires MPEG-4 for efficient content delivery.

Current stand-alone TiVos cannot compete with the features of cable box/DVR combos now being offered by cable companies with features like HD and dual tuners that it is technically impossible for the current TiVo hardware to match. The advent of the CableCard 2.0 standard, due next year, will allow 3rd parties to produce cable box/DVRs that compete feature-for-feature with the boxes offered by cable companies. This offers a major opportunity for both TiVo and Apple, but it is not clear that Apple needs TiVo to go after this market. Owners of existing TiVo's will be looking to upgrade their hardware; they might as well buy an Apple-branded product as a TiVo one.

TiVo's DirecTV connection is probably worth little to Apple. DirecTV is moving to introduce a home-grown DVR, and have announced plans to move HD content to MPEG-4, which the HD DirecTiVo DVR cannot handle.

The only thing I can think of that TiVo has that Apple might want is their patents. It is not clear how crucial these are; they certainly haven't stopped cable companies and firms like Elgato from introducing competing DVR products. But it might be that Tivo owns some patents that Apple would find useful for creating a superior user experience.

 

[VincentVega]

Broadcast flag. There, I said it.

Funny you should mention that:

US Court of Appeals to FCC - no to broadcast flag.

 

[BWhaler]

I am highly suspect of this.

Reasons:

1. TiVo just did a technology deal with Microsoft

2. What is Apple buying for $300M? A massively money losing business. For what? 3MM subscribers? Look into those numbers, where the majority are directv, and it isn't as sweet as it looks. Technology? Apple has to have been working on a living room hub solution for some time.

I suspect this is either pure speculation or a fake leak by the company to drive the value of the company up. I think the serious buyers are either Microsoft or Sony.

 

[tgibbs]

At the end of the day it is not clear that people will pay $499 for the box, And I suspect that is where apple would need to price it in order to profit from it.

That's cheaper than some iPods! I don't think people would pay that much for a current TiVo (which are now selling for $50-100), but they are essentially obsolete--no HD, no surround sound, only one tuner, needs to work with a cable box--but people were lining up to pay $999 for the DirecTV HDTiVo, which offers dual tuners, HD, and digital audio.

And an Apple unit might well offer even more. Heck, it might even be a full Mac--basically a Mini with a bigger HD and MPEG-4 decoder hardware.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Benefits of Tivo aquisition?​

Well I think, as with any aquisition, that you have to weigh the costs of creating the item yourself versus how much it'll cost to just outright purchase.

So what we need to know is.

Would it cost Apple less money to

1. Create and patent their hardware and software technology
2. Develop a distribution channel and marketing plan.
3. Produce the DVR
4. Setup the infrastructure for guide data etc.

and probably lots of other stuff I missed. I doubt Apple could do that for less than $350 million. Let us not forget the intriguing Strangeberry aquisition which is led by star programmer Arthur Van Hoff who is supposed to be a patent creating fiend.

It's a smart purchase.

 

[HiRez]

I would love to see it, I've been buying all sorts of geek boxes (computers, A/V, electronics, etc.) for many years, and other than any of my Macs, the TiVo is the single most awesome and useful device I've ever purchased. Some people have said they find the TiVo interface unintuitive. I completely disagree, it reminds me a lot of an Apple product in its sheer simplicity and power. It's no secret that TiVo is in trouble of being washed away with the breaking Comcast wave (and other giant cable cos.) and their M$-like takeover tactics, I'd love to see Apple buy TiVo and keep the brand alive. Then hopefully they could revitalize it by doing things like adding multiple tuners, building an Airport Extreme module into it, or whatever. TiVo also has a promising new API for running third-party Java applications on the box that can take advantage of its abilities, and tap into the internet. I have an EyeTV box too, which is pretty neat, but I prefer the TiVo standalone, dedicated style of box for DVR things.

EDIT: Thataboy, I just read your post, it's funny you mentioned exactly the same things I wanted for my TiVo: dual tuners and built-in wireless.

 

[takao]

what exactly is this Tivo thing doing ? from the discussion i found out it's some kind of tv recording thing ... but why should apple aquire it ? sure it's popular in the US (and perhaps UK) but anywhere else ?

 

[jouster]

From a user's POV, I think this would be great, but from a business standpoint, not so simple.

First off, as has been mentioned, TiVo is a dying company as it stands now. They simply cannot compete with the DVRs offered by cable companies. A cable company charges a few (5-10) bucks a months for their (admittedly inferior) DVR, and you don't have to buy the box. TiVo has a much better interface, but you need to buy it, and then pay a monthly fee.--DT

Isn't there also a one off $199 payment option?

That makes it a much cheaper alternative over the long term.

 

[daddy-mojo]

I have to give DirecTV and DISH props for charging the same price for their DVRs as they do their additional receivers. Each monthly service fee is $4.99/month, whether it be a DVR or a regular receiver.

By the way, DirecTV has announced that they are moving away from TIVO and developing their own DVR box. They showed it off at CES.

hmmm I thought I had read something about an updated directv tivo box, but it wasn't necassarily a directv only (non-tivo) brand, just bringing in the features from the standard boxes that are lacking. Hmmm....not sure if I like that or not, guess it would depend on how it affects the current directv tivo customer base.

 

[HiRez]

what exactly is this Tivo thing doing ? from the discussion i found out it's some kind of tv recording thing ... but why should apple aquire it ? sure it's popular in the US (and perhaps UK) but anywhere else ?

It lets you record and playback video to a hard disk. You can basically have random access to any show it records, can watch one show it's already recorded while it records another. Also it knows the entire tv schedule two weeks in advance. You can set Season Passes to record a particular show whenever it's on, even if the networks move the time/day around, as they like to do now. Basically it's a replacement for a VCR but it's so much better. The frustrating thing is that it's really hard to describe just how cool it is to someone who has never used it. If you watch tv, it's a life-changing device, and I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm serious.

 

[DPazdanISU]

Movie Store, DUH- The year of HD... come on people H264 encoded movies on ur apple tivo- and yes if u want to keep the subscription u can but thats not where apple is going, they r going in the full media center on ur tv via mac mini/tivo area