Apple To Buy TiVo?

[jettredmont]

So, it's been rumored that the way for Tivo/RTV to go is to license their interface/technology to cable providers, and stop selling standalone DVR boxes. Is that a profitable enough business for Apple to go into? I don't know about that.

Don't new high-end TVs have a "universal" HD cable interface (the cable company provides a card which you plug in) already? I don't see why a DVR wouldn't have the same slot for HD cable.

 

[jettredmont]

and yet every single person I know who has a Tivo absolutely love it, myself included. I hate watching "normal" tv now when I'm not at home. Tivo needs to price themselves a bit better and offer more incentives. I have the Directv version which lets me record from two seperate tuners at once while still watching a previously recorded show. Not even the standard tivo boxes do that. Then again, the standard ones let you network your photos and music.

Tivo has changed the way people watch television and Apple could help change it for the better that much more.

Heck, if Apple could come out with a DirecTivo that can scroll through the channel listing without a five-second refresh at each screen (ABHORENT UI!!!) then I'd be buying. Funny that the non-Tivo DirecTV boxes do this wondrous feat of magic (practically instantaneous redrawing of the Guide grid so that I can scroll from Channel 3 to channel 999 the long way in a matter of seconds) already! For that matter, so did our old Dish PVR box!

Ah, well. That's my only TiVo gripe, that the DirecTivo unit (the only one I can comment on) is just unbearably slow in drawing the central UI element: the program guide. And I know it's not a hardware failure as the other three people I know with the same model complain about exactly the same thing.

 

[nuckinfutz]

It'll probably take a computer company to fix sluggish TV interfaces. We must not forget that Microsoft is flogging their Media Center PCs pretty hard. Apple has nothing to compete right now. Buying Tivo basically brings them right up where they need to be.

Toss in a Cell 4 SPE chip and you're probably humming along nicely. I look for a time when I only need to burn something to optical disc when I take it beyond my home networks borders

 

[mrgreen4242]

I doubt it, TiVo is about the most unituitive DVR I've ever used. We personally use the old Microsoft Ultimate TV that they don't make any more, because, I know this makes no sense, but it has the best user interface of any I've seen and is fast, and just easy to use. Where as the TiVo I have to hit sometimes 10 more buttons/steps just to set up a recording. Infact most DVRs that I've used that are user friendly, comcast or ReplayTV all mimic the UltimateTV interface. Where as TiVo, I'ts just not intuitive, which just isn't apple. Plus it seems to be missing all the things we all love about Apple, cool features and integration to the digital hub world. So unless Apple was planning to release a new revised version under with a new OS and new features, but benefiting from the TiVo name... it just doesn't make sense.... And even then, they could ride the iPod name almost as well as the TiVo name, granted by buying TiVo they buy into a huge user base. But other then that... I just don't see how it benefits them. As TiVo just needs an general overhaul.

You are perhaps the only person in the history of the world to say something like that. TiVo is easily one of the best, most user friendly gadgets ever used. Everyone I've ever met, including my not-very-computer-literate mother and father, have sat right down and starting using the TiVo to watch, record, browse, and otherwise control the TV within minutes.

Compared to Windows Media Center, any digital cable or satellite tv menu system I've seen, TiVo is like comparing OS X to DOS 5.0.

Rob

OH, this would be a great merger. I'd love to see the TiVo UI become iFilm or iTV or something, and the hardware get turned into a firewire enabled add-on for the mini or any other Mac. Combine these with an iFilm online store that sells/rents movies and also TV shows and Apple would have a winner.

 

[ClarkeB]

Dual-Core Cell Powerbooks with extra PPC G5 Powerbooks with TiVo box installed this Tuesday!!

 

[bellis1]

Bring it on...

I'm willing to spend the money on Apple but not my local cable company, Cox. A well integrated mac and television/video, god, I have been waiting for this since my first tv tuner card mac (IIcx) 16 years ago. I don't have tivo but my brothers bought my mom one over the holidays and she cannot stop raving about it. If my mom can figure out how to use it anyone can. Thanks for the rumor.

 

[pigbat]

I've joked with my wife for a couple years that the only thing I'd give up my Tivo for would be an Apple branded DVR. I think there's a market but the patents they would pick up may be worth the 300M. I'll leave that decision to someone smarter than me. 😀

 

[tgibbs]

I doubt it, TiVo is about the most unituitive DVR I've ever used. We personally use the old Microsoft Ultimate TV that they don't make any more, because, I know this makes no sense, but it has the best user interface of any I've seen and is fast, and just easy to use. Where as the TiVo I have to hit sometimes 10 more buttons/steps just to set up a recording.

Actually, the philosophy behind the TiVo interface has a lot in common with the Mac interface. Just like the Mac one-button mouse, you can do almost everything on the TiVo with just the directional pad and select. So you don't have to squint at a bunch of buttons. And just like the Mac, there are shortcuts for many actions. There are labeled buttons for specific actions if you want them. For example, to record something from the Guide, all you do is press Select twice. Left on the directional pad cancels almost any action and backs out of almost any menu, making it virtually impossible to get lost. I can't imagine what situation would require 10 button steps to record, unless it involves a search for a long keyword.

 

[iindigo]

Current TiVo + compact, sleek Apple design + Mac OS X = WOW

I would love for this to happen... If Apple introduced a TiVo-like device, I'd be the first to buy it -


EDIT: To make the package even sweeter, include an iPod-esque remote 😎

 

[bretm]

Bad move

I'd have to say that this is perhaps a bad idea. TiVO and Replay are losing ground in the market because of Dish, DirectTV, and Cable companies now having similar offerings. As well, there is a slew of new DVD Burners with hard drives out there for less than TiVo, AND they don't require a subscription. Some basic ones are like VHS decks and leave it up to you and your TV guide to program. Some utilitze VCR Plus to make it simpler. But some utilize free online services like tvguide.com - which has searches for actors and such. It won't be long until the subscription method is gone and the ad method fills the void.

I don't see Apple jumping in on the tail end of a dissolving marked. If they're jumping in, they've got their own idea up their sleeve, and buying TiVO would give them an instant user base for their new style service, plus essentially eliminate their only real competition.

Show of hands, who bought the lifetime subscription for their TiVo box? 🙂

 

[dongmin]

Why recreate the wheel if you don't have to. Tivo is now a verb "please Tivo this show for me tonight" That kind of presence is worth paying for. Sure Apple could eventually create a new product that is well received but would it cost them less than 300 million?

Considering that the $300 million would represent 60-65% of Apple's R&D expense for 2004, yes, Apple could develop a lot better product for the money. The assumption that Apple is not already developing products in this market and that they'd have to start scratch is ridiculous. Apple is already migrating to HD and making h.264 standard. TiVo is just now jumping on the mpeg4 bandwagon. I just don't see what's so bloody special about the technology that's in a TiVo box. It might have been cool 3 years ago, but now...

absolutely false. 3 million "paying" customers are always preferrable to 3 million freeloaders. Elgato isn't even close to having what Tivo has in the pipeline with "Tahiti" and their partnership with Netflix and even Microsoft. Dongmin concede defeat, that is unless you have a taste for crow 😉

You're comparing what ElGato already offers to what TiVo might offer in the distant future. Let me know when TiVo actually delivers on these promises. It took them until now to figure out how to get recorded content onto computers. Not exactly cutting edge. And their current interoperability with iLife is weak at best.

As for their 3 million paying customers, they've been able to attract these customers precisely because they've been eating all the costs themselves. Sure it's a decent product, but their business model sucks. If Apple buys out TiVo, they're gonna have to change the business model. Will the 3 million subscribers stay once Apple starts charging $500 for the box?

Imagine-

I have a box sitting on top of my TV in 2007. I have one remote for this device. The device has:

[...]

This isn't about duplicating Tivo's "Money Pit" people. This is about realizing the change that is coming to the "connected home' and capitalizing on this. People don't even realize that in 3-5 years they will suddenly see their TV Entertainment options go from a few providers to dozens.

Swell, that would make for a nice little box. But tell me: why Apple needs TiVo to put such a box together. Most of what you describe is already in a Mini, right out of the box, right now. All that's missing is TV recording. You don't need to project 3-5 years from now. It's already pretty much here.

 

[Object-X]

Tough one

Wow, this is a tough one. My gut is telling me that something "BIG" is coming this year and it will have everything to do with HDTV. Job's smirk on his face when he claimed this would be the year of HD tells me something's up. Talks with Sony? Apple adopting Blueray? IBM chips in PS3? Apple to buy Tivo? I don't know. I agree that Tivo is dying, but what if Apple bought the company and then used the set top device in a different way than Tivo is currently using it? I think that could be possible. But what part of Tivo does Apple need? EyeTV is over priced and I suspect that Apple will release something similar that is way more powerful, cheaper, and much easier to use.

Now here is my prediction: whatever it is, we will look at it and say duh! Of course. Why didn't I think of that? 🙄

 

[iindigo]

I'd have to say that this is perhaps a bad idea. TiVO and Replay are losing ground in the market because of Dish, DirectTV, and Cable companies now having similar offerings. As well, there is a slew of new DVD Burners with hard drives out there for less than TiVo, AND they don't require a subscription. Some basic ones are like VHS decks and leave it up to you and your TV guide to program. Some utilitze VCR Plus to make it simpler. But some utilize free online services like tvguide.com - which has searches for actors and such. It won't be long until the subscription method is gone and the ad method fills the void.

I don't see Apple jumping in on the tail end of a dissolving marked. If they're jumping in, they've got their own idea up their sleeve, and buying TiVO would give them an instant user base for their new style service, plus essentially eliminate their only real competition.

Show of hands, who bought the lifetime subscription for their TiVo box? 🙂

Well, seeing how Apple hates subscriptions (iTMS vs. Napster), I could see Apple cutting the subscription...

 

[fucanay]

I wonder if Apple has already had a box in the works, but needs to buy TiVo to clear up the patent issues. The rumors of such a device are not new, so they could have it fully developed and just need to buy the technology they are already using.

And add on top of that, the install base of TiVo. They could give incentives to current TiVo users to upgrade to the newer box. When Apple bought Emagic, they took all of the plugins that used to be sold separately, and bundled them with a new release of Logic for $150. I don't know even one Logic user that didn't buy that upgrade.

fucanay

 

[~loserman~]

EyeTV has come up in this discussion, of course

If Apple bought "goingdownthetubeVO" would they name it "iTV" 🙂

I dont think anyone can make money with TiVO or replay type services.

Cable companies are already offering this service in their settop boxes for cheaper than TiVO and I expect they will continue to take over all the market share for it. Just like they are quickly taking over the majority of market share for broadband internet service.

I doubt it could be a successful venture for Apple either

 

[swissmann]

Would this have anything to do with year of High Definition. I would love to have a download service with a HD movie that I could play on my TV. I'm sure that would be for huge download sizes though.

 

[reyesmac]

Go for it Apple!

In a perfect world Apple could turn the Tivo into a Mac Mini like device and use it as a way to get more people on the mac platform.

• record movies
• buy movies
• rent movies
• edit video
• TV photo album
• play/buy music
• enhance channel surfing with interactive tv guide
• play games

It would work great alone and better with subscription.
They might even be able to do it for around $600.

I think Apple can make a profit on this. They won't sell the hardware at a loss plus they will add users to the music store and get more ipods sold. Plus they could use it to launch their movie service. Is all that added profit worth $300 million? I think so.

 

[~loserman~]

EyeTV is over priced and I suspect that Apple will release something similar that is way more powerful, cheaper, and much easier to use.

Easier to use..... Sure traditional Apple

Cheaper(Less expensive)......I Doubt it.. Apple products are generally more expensive

More Powerful..... thats very subjective.

 

[hob]

If Apple bought "goingdownthetubeVO" would they name it "iTV" 🙂

I dont think anyone can make money with TiVO or replay type services.

Cable companies are already offering this service in their settop boxes for cheaper than TiVO and I expect they will continue to take over all the market share for it. Just like they are quickly taking over the majority of market share for broadband internet service.

I doubt it could be a successful venture for Apple either

They could buy a bad TV company already called iTV... ITV!!

Hob 😀

 

[macidiot]

That metric is so 90s. Today, the important metric is "how long can they survive before they run out of money." In Tivo's case, the answer is "not long."

If you read their 10-Q, you'll see that Tivo's hardware costs are killing them. It's brutal.

At a minimum, they should start licensing (and enforcing) their DVR patents, so they can get revenue from the other DVR makers. As far as anyone knows their patents are valid, and DVR functionality sure wasn't obvious back then.

I agree. What's the point of Apple buying a company that will most likely disappear in a year or two? At the very least, they can just wait a year and pick up Tivo for less. They(tivo) will have probably burned through at least another 100mil by then.

And while I have a hd-tivo, and wouldn't mind a htpc, I don't see the market for a htpc being successful for years, if at all. HTPC's provide 2 critical pieces of functionality: DVR and internet browsing(gaming too, but as everyone knows this is largely a moot point when it comes to Macs). For one thing, they face the same problem as tivo: all the cable and sat companies are doing their own dvrs. Thats the only digital box people really want next to their tv's right now, other than a HD decoder. And the providers are practically giving their dvrs away. Second, computing on a tv only makes sense if you have a HDTV. Viewing a webpage on a old tube tv is painful. As webtv found out. And it'll be awhile till everyone has a HDTV.

The only things tivo brings to the table is its dvr software and subscriber base. As for the software, Apple could just do its own solution. They already have a firewire sdk in place. Or they could probably buy ElGato or something similar for a lot less. And the subscriber base is largely worthless going forward. With DTV(tivo's largest base) and everyone else doing its own dvrs, everyone will eventually switch off of tivo.

Frankly, I don't think Tivo is worth 300mil.

 

[xsnightclub]

I agree. What's the point of Apple buying a company that will most likely disappear in a year or two? At the very least, they can just wait a year and pick up Tivo for less. They(tivo) will have probably burned through at least another 100mil by then.

The same could have been said for Apple during the dark years before Jobs returned.
But we can all see clearly what proper management of a company can do for it balance sheet. Apple shareholders are thanking Jobs everynight before they go to sleep.

Steve might have big plans for this, maybe something with the movie studios and networks (He has good contacts and reputation from Pixar). After all, it took Steve to get the record labels on board for the iTMS business model.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Considering that the $300 million would represent 60-65% of Apple's R&D expense for 2004, yes, Apple could develop a lot better product for the money

You're far more optimistic than most. Aquisitions are wholly different than R&D. In fact R&D money is so tight most companies find it easier to aquire smaller company rather than roll their own. I doubt Apple could develop a DVR application as good as the Tivo UI in less than two years. What we have iLife 4 now and iMovie and iPhoto just became usable? Apple's good but having a collection of codecs and programming APIs does not make them qualified to create a best of breed DVR app.

Will the 3 million subscribers stay once Apple starts charging $500 for the box?

Doesn't really matter. Apple needs the current userbase to stay until they've fleshed out ways to make money.

But tell me: why Apple needs TiVo to put such a box together.

They don't "need" Tivo but they are the path of least resistance. Apple simply cannot build what Tivo offers for less than 400 million when you take into account the whole picture from employee to production to marketing. Half a billion doesn't go as far as it used to.

We'll see if this is yet another hoax or if there is some truth behind this. Either way Apple will need something.

 

[SeaFox]

It'll probably take a computer company to fix sluggish TV interfaces. We must not forget that Microsoft is flogging their Media Center PCs pretty hard. Apple has nothing to compete right now.

What flawed logic. Because Microsoft is doing something Apple has to also? Microsoft has been following Apple's innovations for years. Microsoft was flogging tablet PC's pretty hard the last couple years, what a damn waste of marketting dollars that was. Sony's discontinueing the Clie completely after dropping it from the US market last year. The PDA is on it's way out while a couple years ago everyone was asking when Apple was going to bring the Newton back.

Apple didn't make it where they are now by chasing every "next big thing" (a phenomanon I don't think will EVER happen really. It's just a business pipe dream like the "information superhighway" was to PC makers in the 90's). They get there by innovating in areas that they actually have a chance in. Right now everyone's DRV recording of digital cable is tied to what their cable provider lets them. And if the provider is making their own boxes, guess who that will be.

Apple buying TiVo is a dumb idea, I wouldn't be surprised if it was started by TiVo somehow to stop their stock spiralling. There's been plenty of press lately saying TiVo is on it's way out and they needed a ray of sunshine to send to all those TiVo owner worried they'll get stuck with boxes that will do nothing more than be digital VCR's once the company folds and the subscription service is turned off. Why buy a company that is loosing money when you have nothing pracical to gain from it but the IP portfolio, if it's still valid. Don't forget, IP is not much good if you don't enforce it in a timely manner. Like people trying to sue graphics software writers for making GIF's or guys suing amazon for one-click shopping, the court could just say TiVo's IP is no longer owned by them because they have failed all these years to enforce their ownership on it. Seeking big payoffs for violations after years of doing nothing just strikes many courts as coattail riding.

Apple could just wait for the bankruptcy sale and buy the IP then...

I look for a time when I only need to burn something to optical disc when I take it beyond my home networks borders

Something content providers will never let you do... unless it's in drastically reduced quality.

 

[macidiot]

The same could have been said for Apple during the dark years before Jobs returned.
But we can all see clearly what proper management of a company can do for it balance sheet. Apple shareholders are thanking Jobs everynight before they go to sleep.

Steve might have big plans for this, maybe something with the movie studios and networks (He has good contacts and reputation from Pixar). After all, it took Steve to get the record labels on board for the iTMS business model.

Very true about Apple. It was in pretty bad shape. But Apple had some things that Tivo doesn't. Apple had a larger and stronger installed base. And its core markets (design and education) were relatively safe havens at the time. And Apple had a larger cash hoard. These things gave Apple the time to re-invent itself. The first iMac, was largely a holding effort to keep the base until things like osX could come out. I don't think Tivo has that luxury. And the problem with Apple was mismanagement, Tivo's is different.

And while I've greatly enjoyed what Apple stock has done, remember that this is all from the iPod. Apple has seen its marketshare in the PC market dwindle from 25%( in the early 90's) to 2%. Since Jobs has come back, Apple's share has gone from around 6% to 2%. Don't get me wrong, I think Steve (and more-so the management team he put in place) has done a fantastic job making Apple profitable. Still, though tough to think about, but without the iPod, Apple would probably be looking for buyers itself at some point.

Regarding movie studio plans, Jobs does have contacts in film, but probably not so much with networks. Besides how does Tivo fit in with film? Its for recording tv content. The only thing the studios would ever consider is vod/rentals, say through iTunes. Apple has most of that in place already with quicktime and the iTunes backend. They could easily offer a solution if the studios bought into it. Though it won't happen until there is enough bandwidth to do it quickly and there is a drm solution that the studios find acceptable.

I don't know, Apple could very well buy Tivo. Superficially it sounds good. But I still don't see the value of it. Maybe I'm missing something...

 

[rdowns]

You most definitely can put a larger hard drive into a TiVo (even up to dual 160 GB drives), hundreds of thousands of people have done it including myself. Also, you can transfer a lifetime TiVo subscription to another TiVo box.

That is not true, the subscription is tied to the Tivo box, not the user.

Conditions of use
A product lifetime subscription to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo Digital Video Recorder (DVR) you buy--not the life of the subscriber. The product lifetime subscription accompanies the product in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect if your DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer warranty details). Because a product lifetime subscription is linked to a particular DVR, it cannot be transferred to any other DVR (unless the DVR is replaced due to a malfunction covered by the manufacturer's warranty). Each DVR purchased requires its own service subscription and activation.