Apple To Buy TiVo?

[BWhaler]

I, for one, think this is a bad idea.

1. Can Apple build a Tivo box with software for less than $300M? Yes.
2. Are all of the 3MM customers profitable? No. Many are not on subscription or are from the DirectTV deal.
3. Are you fighting the channel who can undercut you on price and access to the customer? Yes. Never, ever a place you want to be.
4. Did TiVo just announce a huge technology deal with Microsoft? Yes.
5. Is the Tivo IP (in part) based on Microsoft technology. Yes.

The list goes on and on. TiVo fans, myself included, would love for Apple to be the saving grace. But I think it is bad business for Apple.

Finally, I think Apple will do something in the living room, but it will be a fresh re-thinking which ties in the iPod and makes Mac ownership a big bonus. In this scenario, Apple isn't fighting the cable companies and also feeding the iPod and Mac ecosystems.

Apple is rarely the first in markets. Apple generally likes the market to develop and watch what the competition is doing, then top it with Apple insight and engineering. I think the same thing is going on here, and come September or next January, we are all going to be blown away.

Sadly, I think this rumor was started by the company to draw in potential acquirers such as Microsoft or Sony.

 

[iMan]

yeee

mmm... I kind of find it interesting - but I believe Apple is after the technology rather than the whole service... if they are to use it, they will turn it into some kind of iTunes for the TV/movie part... and hence; there is hardware involved of course - Apple don't sell software - they use software as a way to sell hardware.

It is also a logical step to get into movies/TV now... they are pretty much done with innovating that music thing - only obvious thing missing now from a complete digital hub for the home is a good mediaserver thingie and something to link it up with motion pictures and TV... I'd say this is the next big one...

 

[Cooknn]

I doubt it, TiVo is about the most unituitive DVR I've ever used.

It can't possibly be worse than my Scientific Atlanta 8000HD. Comcast's Integrated Program Guide totally blows - and the software for the DVR is bug ridden. If Apple could take TiVo's HD DVR and interface it with an iMovie store for Hi-Def content, what a cool thing that would be. Not sure about the rest of the world, but I'm sitting on a 6Mpbs broadband connection. Bring it on

Not going to happen. TIVO is bleeding money. The future of DVRs are whatever box your local cable company offers... Not to mention, who wants to pay $12/month for DVR service? When your cable company is willing to rent you a DVR for $5/month.

BUT what programming does the cable company offer that's worth recording? Nothing but crap IMHO. What Apple could do that nobody else has done (right) is offer a huge library of movie/sports/documentary content for you to watch ON DEMAND and in HI DEF.

Somebody needs to figure out how to get this done. It is the future of TV. Apple is the right company for the job.

 

[iMan]

It can't possibly be worse than my Scientific Atlanta 8000HD. Comcast's Integrated Program Guide totally blows - and the software for the DVR is bug ridden. If Apple could take TiVo's HD DVR and interface it with an iMovie store for Hi-Def content, what a cool thing that would be. Not sure about the rest of the world, but I'm sitting on a 6Mpbs broadband connection. Bring it on

I'm on 10Mbps Only thing I am afraid of is the same issues as with iTunes; local copyrights messing with the rollout - we still have no idea of when iTunes is coming to Norway (now hoping for april... isn't that birthday of iTMS?). We'd probably get this movie thing then in.... 2009 or something

 

[Koadoc]

It's the logical next step!

With Microsoft and SBC postioning themselves to offer internet TV content, Apple has to make a move to position themselves to do the same thing. Look at the history, with the developement of MP3's and original Napster like P2P software, Apple turned those in to legitmate and mainstream applications. Now look at BitTorrent, broadband access, and movie downloading and TV downloading. This is the next logical step, Apple tamed music downloads, they can now tame video content downloading, ie Divx, mp4 etc. Plus people want video on demand, and to watch video content when they want to, not when some network dud says you have to watch it. The other upside to this is that you might be able to watch it when you want but also where you want. The market is postionings itself for this outcome, look at sonys new PSP, Palm and PocketPC and smart phone platforms, they all have video capabilities. If apple does this, it will put this technology in the hands of the masses, and who knows maybe a iPod video?

Koadoc

 

[Cooknn]

Plus people want video on demand, and to watch video content when they want to, not when some network dud says you have to watch it. The other upside to this is that you might be able to watch it when you want but also where you want. The market is postionings itself for this outcome, look at sonys new PSP, Palm and PocketPC and smart phone platforms, they all have video capabilities. If apple does this, it will put this technology in the hands of the masses, and who knows maybe a iPod video?
Koadoc

I just hope we have Steve around for another 20 years to see this through. With pancreatic cancer survivors they only talk in increments of 5 years

 

[ASP272]

That would be awesome to see Tivo in a Mac Mini, sitting atop my entertainment center recording all my episodes of Lost, Boston Legal, Survivor, and 24. Now that would be sweeet!

 

[neutrino23]

It seems unlikely. What could TiVo offer that Apple couldn't build themselves?

As far as Apple making something like this...

The magic 8 ball says

The view is cloudy - try again later.

 

[Object-X]

Why own when you can watch?

I don't think the ownership argument applies to movies. Here is why:

1. You don't take them with you. There are a few exceptions, but movies are not like music.
2. Why buy when you can have movies on demand? It is more convienent to just purchase a subscription and watch what you want when you want and not hassel with recording times, mega large file downloads, and disc array backups and the like. Though this feature is not available yet, it is coming and cable companies have a lock on it. There will always be a demand for rental or view on demand service because, quite frankly, most movies aren't worth buying.
3. What ever tech companies could do with movies cable companies could do the same and undercut them.

So, even though movie downloads will be available it won't be the industry changing equation that iPods and iTunes are. Most people I predict will favor viewing-on-demand and will pay for it as part of their cable / satalite bill. I see PVR and Tivo services as a temporary solution to the future of watching anything, anywhere, anytime service.

 

[sinisterdesign]

Somebody needs to figure out how to get this done. It is the future of TV. Apple is the right company for the job.

i agree. i can't see all the business ramifications, but Apple has revolutionized the music world, the next logical step is the video world. TiVo has already started a revolution there that it wasn't able to capitalize on. if Apple can figure out how to take that platform/idea to the next level and integrate it w/ downloadable content, that would be incredible.

i'm always doubtful about these kind of acquisition rumors, but i would LOVE to see this one.

c'mon TiVoPod!!!!

 

[laughingboy]

Different View

I haven't read all of the posts, so this may have already been stated...

I currently have a dual tuner PVR from my cable company Rogers, in Canada. Sounds great, but the interface blows - I don't even use the PVR functions anymore.

I also have used Beyond TV (PC based PVR) which has a decent interface and features, but suffers from having to send IR commands to a cable box, and runs on XP (blech) - it needs constant attention.

If I could combine the two (decent interface and good integrated hardware), I'd be happy.

My slightly different view is that just like apple negoatiated with the music companies, they could negotiate with the cable providers and provide set top boxes not only directly to consumers, but also through the cable providers.

"iTivo" availaiblity from your cable provider directly? It's a possibility. It would come preconfigured for any unique aspects of your cable provider and have a slick, easy to use, and robust interface.

The key is not the hardware (drive size, number of tuners, etc), it's the interface.

Take a look at http://pvr.teehanlax.com/report.php

lb

 

[iMan]

Steve says...

when confronted with the coming of a video iPod SJ always comments on the fact that there is no content available (meaning of course legally and easily accessably by the average guy...). So, Apple needs to manage to get the content out there in the required formats somehow... we know that noone is going to help them with that... they are all going with MS proprietary - so if Apple is to get on that river, they better make and run the boat themselves... and music is nothing to what this is going to be - if Apple does this right, it might just be the end of MS monopoly once and for all (at least as goes for home computers).

 

[nuckinfutz]

It seems unlikely. What could TiVo offer that Apple couldn't build themselves?

As far as Apple making something like this...

The magic 8 ball says

The view is cloudy - try again later.

Neutrino23 of course Apple could build it themselves. They could have built Final Cut Pro, or DVD Studio Pro from scratch but the problem is that would cost twice as much as just buying the code. Tivo doesn't give Apple much IP that they couldn't eventually create but Tivo does have Patents that Apple can't have unless they purchase. They have Strangeberry tech that Apple cannot access without aquisition. So Apple can spend 400 million and get a setup infrastructure and breathe new life into it or they can start from scratch and spend more money but have total control.

I don't know why everyone thinks Apple is some programming god that can whip up a DVR app just because they have quicktime. 1st Generation Apple apps aren't that hot. Motion is great but I wouldn't bet my career on version 1. Final Cut Pro wasn't really good until Version 3. iLife has taken 4 versions before sweetening up. Apple would likely do better to grab the patents, infrastructure and exec talent from Tivo.

 

[nightowl]

I don't see much where Apple will benefit. Apple already has the infrastructure in place (iTMS, QT, servers, trailer downloads, h.264) to quickly put in place their own movie download store. They don't need TiVo for this.

Apple has the infrastructure, but not the end product. I think what Apple would be working on is attempting to create an independent Video On Demand service, with the PVR options thrown in as the bait. I imagine the price of a Tivo to go up, to account for no monthly subscriptions. However, at 2-4 or so dollars a movie or show download, likely some income from the movie industry for having movie trailers available, etc., how long will it take for them to recover the lost monthly subs? The Mac Mini, without using standard 3.5" HDDs and architecture, is limited in its storage capacity without adding additional firwire enclosures.

The biggest problem I see with both Tivo and Replay, or any other independent PVR company, is the lack of portability of the box from provider to provider. If I buy a standalone Tivo today, I can record analog cable great. Want to record digital cable, directv, or dish? Gotta have a second box, more wires, etc. to make it all work. If I purchase an Apple Tivo, I want it to work regardless of which provider I have, record HDTV, etc. With HDTV in the current form, there is no acceptable way (other than an expensive, warranty-voiding modification to the STB) to get a digital signal into the box. Yes, Tivo can build a cablecard slot into their unit, but what happens when I get p$$$$d at Comcast, and switch to Directv?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Yes, Tivo can build a cablecard slot into their unit, but what happens when I get p$$$$d at Comcast, and switch to Directv?

Cablecard primer

Well for starters, if you move you simply relinquish the CableCARD to your cable provider and then pick up a new one once you reach your destination. You do not have to relinquish an entire cable box and relearn, reprogram and refrustrate yourself with a whole new unit (possibly of lesser quality) at your destination. Plus, that's one less box needed in your home theater/living room. But this is only a small advantage in my book.

Then you just get the Directv cablecard. I'm amazed that people still don't understand what cablecards are going to do for the industry. But then again do you think Comcast or Time Warner wants you to forgo using their boxen?

Cablecard technology is the reason why Apple needs to be getting into this arena and making partnerships. Comcast/TW will still get their money but we no longer have to use their hardware unless PPV or On Demand is required. This allows Apple and others to create boxes that support whatever Cable system you use AND add in value add features like broadband video access(Think Akimbo) and your own personal video files. It's literally a no brainer here.

 

[Lynxpro]

It can't possibly be worse than my
BUT what programming does the cable company offer that's worth recording? Nothing but crap IMHO. What Apple could do that nobody else has done (right) is offer a huge library of movie/sports/documentary content for you to watch ON DEMAND and in HI DEF."



The better question is "what do the broadcast networks offer that's worth recording?" Let's see...on the cable side, we have SciFi Network's "Battlestar Galactica," on ESPN2 there's "Tilt," and on F/X there is "Nip/Tuck," "Rescue Me," and "The Shield." Before Comcast owned G4 Media ruined TechTV, you had "The Screen Savers," "Call for Help," and "Unscrewed with Martin Sargent." Don't forget the triumvirate of the History Channel, Discovery Channel, and Discovery Times Channel (not to forget the Discovery Science Channel either). Oh yeah, and the BBC's new expensive version of "Doctor Who" will be arriving courtesy of a cable network shortly. I'd say there's plenty to record from the cable networks. Much better offerings than from broadcast that'll probably offer a new version of CSI or Law & Order based in Fresno.

 

[nightowl]

Cablecard primer

Well for starters, if you move you simply relinquish the CableCARD to your cable provider and then pick up a new one once you reach your destination. You do not have to relinquish an entire cable box and relearn, reprogram and refrustrate yourself with a whole new unit (possibly of lesser quality) at your destination. Plus, that's one less box needed in your home theater/living room. But this is only a small advantage in my book.

Then you just get the Directv cablecard. I'm amazed that people still don't understand what cablecards are going to do for the industry. But then again do you think Comcast or Time Warner wants you to forgo using their boxen?

Cablecard technology is the reason why Apple needs to be getting into this arena and making partnerships. Comcast/TW will still get their money but we no longer have to use their hardware unless PPV or On Demand is required. This allows Apple and others to create boxes that support whatever Cable system you use AND add in value add features like broadband video access(Think Akimbo) and your own personal video files. It's literally a no brainer here.

I understand the use of cablecards, and think it's great for cable users, however, there is no requirement or foreseeable use of similar cards for Directv and Dish, however. Yes, they use a CAS system, but the technology used for the transmission of cable signals is different than the transmission of Directv, and also different than Dish. If I want to record Dish HD programming, I must abandon my existing hardware and purchase a Dish HD PVR. Want to switch to Direct? Gotta buy another box and get rid of the old. I'd love to see Dish and Directv use a cablecard style access device, but I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

[SWC]

One thing I think you guys are overlooking is how much the backend is already compatible with the mac. The networking built into Tivo is rendezvous (bonjour if you must). The box runs linux so a port to mac os wouldnt be very hard.

I have 4 tivos and absolutely love them. The main gripe people have is sluggish menus and no dual tuner. Sluggish menus could be resolved by upgrading the hardware in the tivo box to use a G3 processor. They could easily produce an 800-900 Mhz G3 system with the same functionality and even dual tuners that the current tivo box has and keep it around the same price point.

But I see the current tivo box as a media center extender type of box but on steroids. You would still be able to schedule and record programs on each individual box and like the current setup youll have an icon for each of the other DVR's in your house on your now playing screen so that you can stream content to and from each unit. If apple built in an ethernet port and an expansion slot for wireless they could easily ditch the subscription fees if they wanted to and just provide guide data over the internet so they wont need to support the dial-in infratructure that tivo must maintain for a lot of their subscribers. (which I dont care either way to be honest, I pay $7 a month for my tivos which are far superior to what comcast is charging $10 a month for here only thing I miss out on is dual tuners but with 4 tivos theres never a conflict anyway.) They could also make it useable without buying the brains of the unit but with limited functionality like no photo/video streaming etc. or maybe even charge a subscription fee unless you buy the main unit to help offset cost of making the hardware since theyll loose out music sales and the like. That way joe blow who just wants a tivo can buy the unit and if he wants the added functionality later he can buy the brains and not have as much of an initial investment.

The only missing peice to the puzzle here is the heart of it all where you can surf the internet, download music (maybe movies if apple wants to venture there) etc. etc etc. For that they port the software from linux to mac os, integrate whatever is necessary to add internet/music store which isnt hard since they already have the bits in place. And upgrade the mac mini, put in a 3.5" drive, dvd burner standard, dual ATSC(HD) tuners and make the box standard component size so it stacks with other equiptment. They could price this around $700-$800 easily which is no more and even less in a lot of cases than a MS HTPC.

As for the person who said it wouldnt happen because the video is encoded in WMP. That only happens when you transfer with tivo2go The video on the tivo itself is just straight mpeg2. They re-encode and encrypt it when it transfers to your pc (which I think is a piss poor idea because quality drops tenfold they should just password protect it when it records but the box automatically plays back without intervention but thats another issue)

They would only need to make changes to the current system instead of building something from scratch and marketing it against the tivo. If they sold the Apple Series 3 Tivo it would sell alot more to the average person then an Apple iWhatever will. Fact of the matter is even if you don't want to admit it, even people who use the comcast DVR call it tivo. Granted not all do most the tech savvy people who know the difference but the average consumer hears Tivo they get something similar they call it Tivo. Tivo has the name and I think with whats possible with few changes it would be great if apple picked them up.

 

[sinisterdesign]

someone had to....

here's to hoping...

 

[mac n cheese]

Tivo is history

Tivo has one foot in the grave. Their product was innovative when it was introduced, but no one who has Dish or Comcast (big chunk of the market eh?) should even consider Tivo.

Check it out...the cheapest Tivo at $99 (after rebate), and you have to continue to pay $13/mo to use it. Single tuner(wow), nothing really impressive, no HD recording (big ouch). Of course, if you have DirecTV, you have one great backup option, you can pay $1000($900 from internet sleaze) for a dual tuner Tivo that will do HD, and then...still pay $13 a month.

Or, you could get one from Comcast for FREE!!! And only pay $5 or $10 a month depending on what you currently have.

Here's why Tivo is screwed. I went to shop for Tivo's, found the above information, was seriously unimpressed. Salesman (God bless the honest salesman) asked me who I use for HD. I told him Comcast(BTW Comcast is huge), he said "Why don't you just pay $5 a month more, and they'll give you a dual tuner box that will record HD/5.1 sound for FREE!!! I dialed 1-800-Comcast before I was all the way out the door, and they brought me one the next day!

But wait....the Hard Drive isn't as big as the $1000 Direct Tivo. Idiots, hard disk space is cheap, but if you have to have some more space, go ahead and dump $1000. That's some expensive storage.

I'll use that $1000 to pay for my Comcast PVR for the next 16.5 years. It works awesome. Not only can I watch one channel while I record the other one, I can watch the last show I recorded while I record 2 other channels at the same time. Did I mention it was FREE?

The market place is all about choices. Tivo doesn't give you much choice, but to go elsewhere.

 

[Machead III]

An iCinema would be so awesome it doesn't bare thinking about, but then with todays sloppy connection speeds it wouldn't be practical anyway.

 

[SWC]

Or, you could get one from Comcast for FREE!!! And only pay $5 or $10 a month depending on what you currently have.

Here's why Tivo is screwed. I went to shop for Tivo's, found the above information, was seriously unimpressed. Salesman (God bless the honest salesman) asked me who I use for HD. I told him Comcast(BTW Comcast is huge), he said "Why don't you just pay $5 a month more, and they'll give you a dual tuner box that will record HD/5.1 sound for FREE!!! I dialed 1-800-Comcast before I was all the way out the door, and they brought me one the next day!

$5-$10 a month more isn't free you've contradicted yourself there. While no HD is a downside that is currently being worked on and an HD unit will be available by the end of the year. Not to mention all of the features the comcast unit does lack like season pass, wish list etc. If you want HD than right now comcast is the better option for you but if you want more features then Tivo is the way to go. I also have a simulated dual tuner setup on some of my sets by using a splitter sending one cable to the TV and the other to the Tivo. That way I can watch one program while I record another. Not the best solution but it works well. So the only thing I really miss out on over the comcast solution is recording HD.

The comcast box is $3 a month more (here at least, seems to vary by market) and theres not much on HD that I really care to record right now anyhow. So for the $3/mo extra the comcast box costs me thats $144 a year. I bought 4 tivo series 2 units for $200 total by buying refurb boxes (which carry the EXACT same warranty as a brand new unit) So for the lack of content that HD has right now I'm saving money by sticking with tivo over comcast and have more features to boot.

So what it boils down to is that if you want to record HD for now comcast is the way to go otherwise tivo is a better option.

Btw, if you call tivo and tell them that $13 a month is too expensive and you are considering switching to comcast pvr theyll drop your first units price to $7/mo same as an additional unit on the account would cost.

 

[Cooknn]

I'll use that $1000 to pay for my Comcast PVR for the next 16.5 years. It works awesome. Not only can I watch one channel while I record the other one, I can watch the last show I recorded while I record 2 other channels at the same time. Did I mention it was FREE?

The market place is all about choices. Tivo is a bad choice, for consumers and Apple.

Think outside the box. I have the Comcast HD DVR too, but as I mentioned before, the content just isn't there to record - especially if you're looking for Hi-Def. Sure we saved $1000 when compared to the HD TiVo, but what I'm looking forward to is not just an Apple TiVo, but an Apple storefront for renting HD content to watch when I want. I'm sure you've searched through the iTunes Music store for a song. You can look in any number of ways to find what you want. Relationships and genres are all there to guide you along your path. Think about a store like that loaded with HD movies and sporting events That would truly be Video On Demand. The TiVo for Apple would just be a vehicle (and a name) to get us to that point IMHO. At least that's what I hope...

 

[aaroncd]

Mindshare

You can go on all you want about reasons it is a bad thing, but if it is real it is a great thing.
I'm not sure of the number of subscribers, but it has to be in the millions, and a huge percentage of them are not mac users, and to be able to make the service easier to use (is there anyone here who things apple would not be able to do this?!?!), and then stick the apple logo on it is a good thing.

Grabbing Elgato to go with this would be a good move to I think. But really if Apple can make it easier to use, the current customers woudl love that, and staring at the Apple logo when things got easier is just a damned good thing.

A

 

[stantyszka]

My visio

Apple buys Tivo and inherits a company that is running a subscription based program. iTMS appears on the TiVo, and your monthly subscription fee allows you to stream unlimited amounts of music to your TiVo, which is hooked up to your Stereo/surround sound system. Apple has denied the plausibility of a subscription based service for iTMS since it lacked control, now there is control, and a pre-established customer base. As far as D/L able content, the ability to copy shows to an "Authorized" iPod Photo for later viewing on the screen, or even while hooked up to a TV is a plus. And I think that they will eventually do to DVD movies what they have done to CD's, Stream a rental, or D/L a purchase....Transfer it over to an iPod to take on the go, or burn to a dvd and put it in your library. I see ALL kinds of warm possibilities here.


Remember, no one really thought we would see an entry level mack, but the MacMini pulls into the garage at under 500 bucks. This could be a real sweet deal.