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That’s ridiculous. Apple has been way ahead of other companies in reacting to this.

1) what WWDC-related criticism? Apple NEVER announces WWDC before mid-march. This year, on their usual timetable, they announced it would be on-line only.

2) in Spain and China they closed stores before any government actor made them do so.

3) now world-wide they have closed stores, and nobody is making them do that. Microsoft, Samsung, etc. still have open stores.

4) there is no “uproar” demanding that Apple do anything.

You are just making things up.
1. I was referring to criticism (legitimate or not) on the WWDC to be in an online form, without Corona being mentioned - probably to avoid negative connotation
2. Italy, Spain and China: social abstention and gathering/meeting prevention precautions had been issued/active before Mar 13, when Apple decided to close its Stores
3. Many other companies by then had regulated or closed stores, cancelled flights, locked down cities, area’s and countries. (I don’t follow MS/Sammy but happy hiking with them as role model examples...)
4. There is a lot of turmoil: authorities and companies are trying to manage (near-) panic. Take a look at stocks and what happened before Mar 13.

I think that Apple did take the right steps, but closing Stores was done forced by circumstances, well after its stocks had taken the plunge, i.e. far less proactive than you suggest.
Something similar about AppStore policy: categorically banning all Corona related apps and then subsequently regulating them better doesn’t seem a wise or well pepared policy either...
Try to understand what’s happening around the globe and get your facts straight.
 
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Those same experts who initially said that (e.g. Fauci) have since backtracked,

No, people are badgering experts to come out with a mortality rate and refusing to accept "we don't know" as the truth, then cherry-picking the gloomiest answers (because they make the best headlines). E.g. people have quoted:

Fauci agreed that the death rate could end up being as low as 1%. But even if that’s the case, he said, it would still be 10 times worse than the average death rate for the seasonal flu.

...but skipped over:

That includes members of Congress. On Wednesday, they asked Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, what was going on. He urged them not to get so fixated on the fatality rate, emphasizing that scientists still have a lot to learn about it.

(Both from https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-03-07/why-the-coronavirus-fatality-rate-keeps-changing)

As I keep saying even "just like 'regular' flu" would be no joke, so arguing over whether a figure with a 10x margin of error is more or less than 0.1% is pretty stupid. Talking it down would be irresponsible, but so is talking it up by focussing in the uncertainty in the number of deaths/recoveries while ignoring the huge uncertainty in the extent of infection.
 
I know all the numbers. I know markets recover. I know this is likely very temporary.

What I simply can't understand is how 80,000 Americans can die of influenza in single year and people keep pounding the table about flu vaccines, Tamiflu, and built up immunity which makes flu "not a big deal" in comparison to Covid19. Is it more contangious? Maybe, but the flu is evidently pretty damn contagious. The 80,000 deaths in the US is a fact and worldwide, that number is estimated to be 646,000 in a new study for a single year. Those are dead people from the flu.

In fact, the ONLY nugget of information that is even remotely supportive of Covid19 being worse is the fact it currently has a higher mortality rate, very early on. However, simple logic tells you the unreported cases are likely astronomical in comparison to the reported cases, but death rates are far more likely to be closer to the truth. This indicates the true mortality rate is quite a bit lower, which Fauci published early on and despite somewhat walking it back, still is extrapolating the unknown.

I fully realize the unknown is what's scary. I fully understand it. I support being careful, taking precautions, and even some extreme measures. I just question, when and where does it stop? We gave a new virus a fancy name and it cripples the world while other viruses are causing far more damage and no one cares.

The likely end game is this virus becomes another virus we very poorly combat with vaccines and treatments, but this kills the elderly and weakened at a disproportionate rate...just like the flu does currently (except a lot more people die from it than Covid19).
Some of the difference is indeed that COVID-19 is novel - people tend to be more afraid of "new" things than something that is familiar (just like nuclear power is statistically, much safer for the environment and for people's health than electricity generation based on burning coal or other fossil fuels, yet many if not most have a violent negative emotional reaction to the idea of nuclear power, because "oh noes that's scary", while blithely accepting millions of deaths a year from fossil fuels without a second thought).

But COVID-19 is different from the flu. It is quite contagious, and, importantly, infected people can spread the virus long before they begin to feel sick / show symptoms. So it can spread to a large percentage of the population in a given area more effectively than flu can - "stay home if you're sick" has historically kinda sorta worked for keeping the standard flu from spreading as fast, with the main limitation being people who don't follow that simple rule but decide instead to tough it out either because they don't care or because they feel pressured to work (no sick leave, key personnel, etc.). And as a novel virus, nobody has any immunity to it. And most estimates (aside from the president's overly optimistic lies) put a vaccine at a year or a year-and-a-half in the future.

As well, we don't have sufficient testing for COVID-19. Pretty much any doctor's office can tell you if you have a "normal" flu pretty quickly. But the test for COVID-19 is essentially being rationed - you only get it if a doctor decides you need it, and then only if they have the right connections to get it done. There are tons of people who should be tested who haven't been tested yet. The administration promised to have 1 million test kits ready to go in a week. They managed 75 thousand - that's missing the mark by 92.5%. As of a few days ago, we had tested about 11,000 people in the US in total since the beginning of the outbreak. Meanwhile, South Korea is testing 20,000 people every single day at this point. The combination of people with the virus looking "normal" while still being contagious, and the acute lack of testing capability, means the next best way to stop the spread is to keep people from congregating. (And the acute lack of concern / downplaying from the current administration, up until the last week, and the squandering of all the time since January that they could have been ramping up to fight this has really hurt things, and has not helped public confidence.)

Places like Disneyland, SXSW, and various conventions like WWDC, all have the property of bringing together people from all over the country, putting them in close contact for a while, and then sending them all back out across the country/world - a nearly perfect way to spread a virus all over the place. So shutting them down is pretty much a no-brainer. Doing the same with stores and schools and sports events is the same idea but at a much smaller scale - each store has a smaller impact, but multiplied by 10's of thousands of stores (not just Apple Stores) across the country, it may help.

A lot of the more serious cases require assistance breathing, and need such care for quite some time (not just a night or two). It is said we have a capacity of roughly 1 million hospital beds in the US, and indications are that only a fraction of those are equipped with the proper respiratory gear to keep such patients alive. So we only have a very limited capacity to deal with - and save the lives of - the sickest patients.

China built two large modern hospitals in Wuhan in a few weeks, to add capacity to deal with the sickest patients. They also took all sorts of draconian measures to quickly combat the virus - widespread curfews, mandatory isolation and closures and such - that most western nations won't or can't duplicate. (To be clear, China initially tried to deny and suppress information about the virus, and that just made it a lot worse, but then they went after it with great fanatical zeal.)

Italy, on the other hand, ignored the situation for too long, and their healthcare system got pushed far beyond capacity. We can't - nor do we want to - duplicate China's most draconian measures, but neither do we want to let our healthcare system get stretched past the breaking point - we don't want to be in the situation of thousands of people dying because doctors had to choose to let them die to save others.

This is where social distancing and self isolation and cancelling large events can make a huge difference - a lot of people will get COVID-19 over the next year or so, and for many it'll be an unpleasant but entirely survivable thing, like the flu. But for some, they will need hospitalization and lengthy treatment to survive it. Given that the total capacity of our healthcare system is relatively fixed, we need to avoid overloading that system with too many sick people at the same time. If everyone gets sick at the same time, it'll exceed our capacity to treat the sickest cases, while if everyone gets sick at some random point over the next year, it's much less of a hit on the healthcare system at any one time. There's a graph floating around showing this - a rapid uncontained outbreak creates a huge sudden spike in hospitalization needs that far surpasses the fixed horizontal line of available healthcare, which would mean a lot of people going untreated and potentially dying. But the same number of sick people (with the same percentage of cases needing hospital care), spread out over a much longer period of time, means that the same number of people will need hospitalization but they won't all need it at the same time. The curve for the number of people sick at any given time stays under the horizontal line showing hospital capacity. This means far fewer deaths - and deaths because the patient couldn't be saved, rather than because the patient couldn't be treated.

So... it's getting all the attention and concern right now because it's novel, but also because (between contagiousness, undetectability, and severity) it has tremendous potential to overwhelm our healthcare system, and cause a lot more deaths, in a short time, than the flu. If we don't handle it properly. And, for quite a long time, the government didn't get out in front of it and say, "here's what everybody needs to do to get through this" in a clear, reassuring, and trustworthy way. Instead we got, "well we only have 15 cases, and soon it will be 5, and then 0", and great fear from those in charge that anything other than downplaying it might hurt the precious stock market (well that certainly turned out well, right?). And, with that lack of clear, concise, and trustworthy information from the government, we get panic buying and rumors/fears flying rampant on social media and such. (And hoarding and profiteering on hand sanitizer when plain old soap is actually more effective, and people trying to collect a six month supply of canned food and TP, because they're acting like it's the end of the world rather than just a trying time. To quote Agent K: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.")

I hope that dealing with COVID-19 will give the world a different way of looking at the "common" flu, put it in a new perspective, and make us, collectively, take it more seriously. If everyone got flu shots, if sick people stayed home, if we took a few other small (for each person) steps, we could reduce deaths from the flu. I hope we can convince everybody to do that now. But we can't play it off as "why care about disease A when there's also disease B?". Down that path lies more deaths and suffering, not less.
 
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Why do you put words into my mouth? I never said that 10% WOULD need hospitalization, I said IF. You HAVE to plan for worst case situations. You can’t just hope things aren’t as bad, or say “we”ll see”. “We’ll see” is not a plan of action. By the time we see, it is too late.

I do agree with you that more needs to close though. Not all of that. Restaurants and fast food may be the only way some get their meals for whatever reason. I am certainly not an advocate for cutting off people from food. Using that logic we’d have to close all the grocery stores too. Then what?
OK, so you can't contain it effectively if restaurants and fast food are open. Let's be serious...to do it effectively, people aren't going to die if they close Taco Bell and KFC. They choose not to, so the rest of it is pretty silly. People are swarming the stores and going out like nothing happened. And you know what? Kind of nothing has happened yet.

You guys making it sound like the most serious pandemic since 1918 need to get a grip. Just sayin'

If 10% need hospitalization, we can handle 10% of the numbers currently...easily. You guys projecting a mass infection rate are extrapolating way too much and if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. All measures of containment are a joke at this point. We didn't effectively implement it and still haven't. It's out. Game over if it's going to be bad.
 
OK, so you can't contain it effectively if restaurants and fast food are open. Let's be serious...to do it effectively, people aren't going to die if they close Taco Bell and KFC. They choose not to, so the rest of it is pretty silly. People are swarming the stores and going out like nothing happened. And you know what? Kind of nothing has happened yet.

You guys making it sound like the most serious pandemic since 1918 need to get a grip. Just sayin'

If 10% need hospitalization, we can handle 10% of the numbers currently...easily. You guys projecting a mass infection rate are extrapolating way too much and if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. All measures of containment are a joke at this point. We didn't effectively implement it and still haven't. It's out. Game over if it's going to be bad.
In some countries it's gotten pretty bad. Look at Italy and Spain is on it's way there next.
 
Some of the difference is indeed that COVID-19 is novel - people tend to be more afraid of "new" things than something that is familiar (just like nuclear power is statistically, much safer for the environment and for people's health than electricity generation based on burning coal or other fossil fuels, yet many if not most have a violent negative emotional reaction to the idea of nuclear power, because "oh noes that's scary", while blithely accepting millions of deaths a year from fossil fuels without a second thought).

But COVID-19 is different from the flu. It is quite contagious, and, importantly, infected people can spread the virus long before they begin to feel sick / show symptoms. So it can spread to a large percentage of the population in a given area more effectively than flu can - "stay home if you're sick" has historically kinda sorta worked for keeping the standard flu from spreading as fast, with the main limitation being people who don't follow that simple rule but decide instead to tough it out either because they don't care or because they feel pressured to work (no sick leave, key personnel, etc.). And as a novel virus, nobody has any immunity to it. And most estimates (aside from the president's overly optimistic lies) put a vaccine at a year or a year-and-a-half in the future.

As well, we don't have sufficient testing for COVID-19. Pretty much any doctor's office can tell you if you have a "normal" flu pretty quickly. But the test for COVID-19 is essentially being rationed - you only get it if a doctor decides you need it, and then only if they have the right connections to get it done. There are tons of people who should be tested who haven't been tested yet. The administration promised to have 1 million test kits ready to go in a week. They managed 75 thousand - that's missing the mark by 92.5%. As of a few days ago, we had tested about 11,000 people in the US in total since the beginning of the outbreak. Meanwhile, South Korea is testing 20,000 people every single day at this point. The combination of people with the virus looking "normal" while still being contagious, and the acute lack of testing capability, means the next best way to stop the spread is to keep people from congregating. (And the acute lack of concern / downplaying from the current administration, up until the last week, and the squandering of all the time since January that they could have been ramping up to fight this has really hurt things, and has not helped public confidence.)

Places like Disneyland, SXSW, and various conventions like WWDC, all have the property of bringing together people from all over the country, putting them in close contact for a while, and then sending them all back out across the country/world - a nearly perfect way to spread a virus all over the place. So shutting them down is pretty much a no-brainer. Doing the same with stores and schools and sports events is the same idea but at a much smaller scale - each store has a smaller impact, but multiplied by 10's of thousands of stores (not just Apple Stores) across the country, it may help.

A lot of the more serious cases require assistance breathing, and need such care for quite some time (not just a night or two). It is said we have a capacity of roughly 1 million hospital beds in the US, and indications are that only a fraction of those are equipped with the proper respiratory gear to keep such patients alive. So we only have a very limited capacity to deal with - and save the lives of - the sickest patients.

China built two large modern hospitals in Wuhan in a few weeks, to add capacity to deal with the sickest patients. They also took all sorts of draconian measures to quickly combat the virus - widespread curfews, mandatory isolation and closures and such - that most western nations won't or can't duplicate. (To be clear, China initially tried to deny and suppress information about the virus, and that just made it a lot worse, but then they went after it with great fanatical zeal.)

Italy, on the other hand, ignored the situation for too long, and their healthcare system got pushed far beyond capacity. We can't - nor do we want to - duplicate China's most draconian measures, but neither do we want to let our healthcare system get stretched past the breaking point - we don't want to be in the situation of thousands of people dying because doctors had to choose to let them die to save others.

This is where social distancing and self isolation and cancelling large events can make a huge difference - a lot of people will get COVID-19 over the next year or so, and for many it'll be an unpleasant but entirely survivable thing, like the flu. But for some, they will need hospitalization and lengthy treatment to survive it. Given that the total capacity of our healthcare system is relatively fixed, we need to avoid overloading that system with too many sick people at the same time. If everyone gets sick at the same time, it'll exceed our capacity to treat the sickest cases, while if everyone gets sick at some random point over the next year, it's much less of a hit on the healthcare system at any one time. There's a graph floating around showing this - a rapid uncontained outbreak creates a huge sudden spike in hospitalization needs that far surpasses the fixed horizontal line of available healthcare, which would mean a lot of people going untreated and potentially dying. But the same number of sick people (with the same percentage of cases needing hospital care), spread out over a much longer period of time, means that the same number of people will need hospitalization but they won't all need it at the same time. The curve for the number of people sick at any given time stays under the horizontal line showing hospital capacity. This means far fewer deaths - and deaths because the patient couldn't be saved, rather than because the patient couldn't be treated.

So... it's getting all the attention and concern right now because it's novel, but also because (between contagiousness, undetectability, and severity) it has tremendous potential to overwhelm our healthcare system, and cause a lot more deaths, in a short time, than the flu. If we don't handle it properly. And, for quite a long time, the government didn't get out in front of it and say, "here's what everybody needs to do to get through this" in a clear, reassuring, and trustworthy way. Instead we got, "well we only have 15 cases, and soon it will be 5, and then 0", and great fear from those in charge that anything other than downplaying it might hurt the precious stock market (well that certainly turned out well, right?). And, with that lack of clear, concise, and trustworthy information from the government, we get panic buying and rumors/fears flying rampant on social media and such. (And hoarding and profiteering on hand sanitizer when plain old soap is actually more effective, and people trying to collect a six month supply of canned food and TP, because they're acting like it's the end of the world rather than just a trying time. To quote Agent K: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.")

I hope that dealing with COVID-19 will give the world a different way of looking at the "common" flu, put it in a new perspective, and make us, collectively, take it more seriously. If everyone got flu shots, if sick people stayed home, if we took a few other small (for each person) steps, we could reduce deaths from the flu. I hope we can convince everybody to do that now. But we can't play it off as "why care about disease A when there's also disease B?". Down that path lies more deaths and suffering, not less.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. All I see are the numbers. The flu is really, really bad despite everything you said about testing, built up immunity, treatments, vaccines, and how contagious. The flu is evidently pretty damn contagious, let's be serious.

If COVID-19 turns out to be as bad as many are saying, there is nothing we can do to stop it now because we haven't implemented anything near an effective quarantine. My city is absolutely crawling with people going to restaurants, malls, gyms, movies, and even places like church. There is not enough widespread participation and certainly not good execution to keep people isolated.

As you said, people don't do what they should do to stop the flu.

When do we stop the pseudo-quarantine and open Disney and Apple stores again? How much sense it doesn't make much sense to close the Apple Store at the mall, while the other parts of the mall are OPEN and people are waiting in line for a Cinnabon next door.
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In some countries it's gotten pretty bad. Look at Italy and Spain is on it's way there next.
"Pretty bad" is still a relative term. Looks like we are just going to have to ride this one out because the cat is out of the bag. We're going to have a front row seat to see if it's as bad as doom and gloomers think.
 
So far, consumers have been spending like there is no tomorrow. People spent thousands on groceries and all sorts of products to last them for a long time.
That panic spending isn't sustainable. When you have 6 rolls of toilet paper and the supply is in question (because store shelves are emptying), buying another two dozen rolls seems prudent. When you have 30 rolls now, buying another 50 next week is much less reassuring. There are shortages for the next few weeks as people stock up / panic buy. Once they're stocked up, that buying spike goes away. Indeed, it likely goes the other way for a while, since a lot of people will have an oversupply of things and will not need to buy at their normal pace.
 
But it's not JUST herd immunity. It's also the fact that people who got the flu vaccine and still get the flu (my whole family this year!) tend to have much better outcomes than people who get the flu without a vaccination. The flu vaccine both keeps the infection rate a lot lower than it would be and keeps the mortality rate down among those who do get the flu after getting the vaccine. Obviously, neither of these benefits are in play with covid-19.

All of which is to say: yes, the flu is very dangerous, but this is a whole different beast with the *potential* for much worse outcomes.
So Fox News, CNN, and all news stations should be updating us daily on how many people haven't gotten a flu shot. The deaths are there to make the story.
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That panic spending isn't sustainable. When you have 6 rolls of toilet paper and the supply is in question (because store shelves are emptying), buying another two dozen rolls seems prudent. When you have 30 rolls now, buying another 50 next week is much less reassuring. There are shortages for the next few weeks as people stock up / panic buy. Once they're stocked up, that buying spike goes away. Indeed, it likely goes the other way for a while, since a lot of people will have an oversupply of things and will not need to buy at their normal pace.
True.

People will also get tired of fretting about this and will go back to their daily lives.
 
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. All I see are the numbers. The flu is really, really bad despite everything you said about testing, built up immunity, treatments, vaccines, and how contagious. The flu is evidently pretty damn contagious, let's be serious.

If COVID-19 turns out to be as bad as many are saying, there is nothing we can do to stop it now because we haven't implemented anything near an effective quarantine. My city is absolutely crawling with people going to restaurants, malls, gyms, movies, and even places like church. There is not enough widespread participation and certainly not good execution to keep people isolated.

As you said, people don't do what they should do to stop the flu.

When do we stop the pseudo-quarantine and open Disney and Apple stores again? How much sense it doesn't make much sense to close the Apple Store at the mall, while the other parts of the mall are OPEN and people are waiting in line for a Cinnabon next door.
The correct answer is not to reopen Disneyland and Apple stores any time soon, the answer may be to close more of the other stores.

And I expect the benefit from closing Apple stores (for instance) is not anywhere near as great as closing Disneyland - again, an event that brings people from across the nation to one place, potentially has lots of infection going on (no one can be sure), and then has those people all go back to their far-flung cities, is the absolute perfect way to spread an infection across the country (and Disneyland and such are like conventions/events that happen every day all year). That continual redistribution of people is ideal for spreading communicable diseases, though in most cases, for most diseases, someone who is infectious also doesn't feel well enough to go there in the first place - COVID-19 changes that, because someone can be infectious for a while with no symptoms - if someone who went there last week becomes sick, how do you go about contacting the other 20,000 people that were there the same day, and everyone they've come into contact with since? (And then, it's not that those 20k+ are sick, it's that they may have been exposed) So, yeah, Disneyland, conventions, and other events that draw people from all over, absolutely ought to be shut down for the foreseeable future. Disneyland, or, say, a Broadway play, will tend to attract people from far away, while a movie or a church service will tend to only attract people from the surrounding neighborhood - there's still risk of transmission, but it's much more localized. And with all of this, it doesn't mean that everyone attending will get sick, it means there's the possibility that some of them will get sick, and we can't tell which ones. It's risky behavior, like unprotected sex with random people.

Somewhere in between Disneyland and Cinnabon, there is a spot where the cost/benefit ratio (and not just cost in $$$) tips to "keep the store open". Clearly, you don't want to shut down supermarkets, because people need food. You don't want to shut down the fire department for instance. But shutting down, say, movie theaters, seems reasonable (it will be hard on the owners and staff, they might need government help, but it congregates a lot of people in a confined space, and people don't need to see movies to survive). And for a place like Cinnabon, you could do a lot by simply spacing out the people in line a bit. Absolute protection? No. But improving the odds.

As far as Apple stores are concerned, I could see them keeping the stores "open", but on an appointment-only basis - want to buy a phone or a Mac or get service? Make an appointment and come to the store at the agreed upon time (and definitely not if you have visible signs of being sick). This keeps the crowd out of the store and does away with hundreds of people handling the same demo devices. It's still a risk, but way less of a risk, and it cuts the chance of widespread infection. I got an adapter I needed delivered by their courier service on Friday - they could keep that service going, too, with the stores as a "base of operations" (I noted that to get the delivery I had to sign the courier's phone - that could be substantially improved by adding a feature to the Apple Store app so that I could sign on my phone in her presence, with it transferring immediately to her phone - likely just into Apple's system directly - then it's basically a no-contact experience). None of this would give them the volume of sales that normal open stores give them, but it would keep their customers a lot happier than outright closing.

It seems like you're painting this as a black-or-white situation ("If COVID-19 turns out to be as bad as many are saying, there is nothing we can do to stop it now"). It's not that, it's a thousand shades of gray, and those thousands shades may play out differently in every community across the nation, because, again, any of those interactions in large groups don't mean someone will get infected, it means there's the possibility. Having large crowds gathered together right now - especially ones who have come from (and will go back to) communities all over the nation - plays out a lot like unprotected sex: there is a high chance of infection, if the virus is present, but you can't tell if it's present during any given interaction. The response to unprotected sex isn't to say, "well, too late to care now, let's just have everyone keep doing it", the response is to try to stop that behavior from continuing, to stop further infection.
 
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Are you living in a dorm? Because if you are living with your family, you will be stuck with them whether one or more is sick or not.
That’s not how they handled in China. Instead of housing infected people with their families and infecting all of them, they isolated them.

Locking people down with someone who is infected is not a smart response.
 
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