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Mess Indeed!

The buggy incomplete and worse... Highly inaccurate Apple Maps are more like a bad April Fools joke. Its a stunning revelation about the sad state of Apple products today. The map is so bad it's nearly unbelievable.

One things for certain, the dodgy work coming out of the Cupertino Co continues to get worse. I don't remember a time when there's been so much substandard work out one of the largest most wealthy company's.

It's proof positive that the public is mesmerized by Apple. This company can sell anything no matter the quality.

If that's the case, then it's up to the shareholders to pressure the company to force Cook out. FAST. The longer he stays there, the more embarrassing it gets. And a few more people need to go, too.

Something needs to happen and shareholders shouldn't sit there and do nothing. They have a voice and it should be heard loudly.
 
There are more cities in the US than NY and I did not live in NY..
One thing I did learn from living there was Americans do not know when to maintain a stoic civil silence..
They would rather ask you How your weekend was if they run into you in the elevator despite having no real intent or interest in knowing how it really was ...
Just because they cannot handle awkward silences when they meet a random acquaintance ..
Are you saying it is OK to be hypocritical because being seen as impolite is not acceptable??

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a random example of how it may sound coming the other way..
The degree of rampant generalization on this thread is amazing!


So in your lame attempt to make a comparison, you miss the mark by a country mile. (Or by a factor of x96 land size US vs UAE.)
Just because you decide to engage in a semi-anti-social behavior you try to demonize others. A social norm that is pretty much accepted world-wide, by the way.

Everyone is now collectively dumber for having read your response.
 
Tim Cook is in over his head. But unlike 1996, when Steve Jobs returned, it is unlikely that there is anyone that capable of taking the helm. But they need better than Cook.
 
[doublepost=1463862560][/doublepost]
Might be I don't know as much as you know. I did not find any problem till date I am able to choose right people and they all are good and honest. I am just sharing my experience. But I see anger and hatred towards them in your words humans needs to be loved is what I believe. We cannot ask apple to stop doing business with rest of the world to employ Americans. Hope Apple finds good talent and chooses right people whereever it wants to setup its shop. We cannot ask Apple to loose business of 2.6 billion people.


I have anger toward those that engage in continual lying, subversion and general deceit in order to gain employment or to further their career/employment. Especially when it involves a highly technical field and one that may very well be safety sensitive.
I am sensing in your world that everyone just needs a hug to make things better. I am also guess that your are a product of everyone gets a trophy and no one fails.
Guess what, that ain't the way the world works. You fail or pass on YOUR OWN MERITS. No group hug, no safe spaces, no participation trophy, if you can't cut it you are fired.
As a general rule, you don't get to choose your co-workers and you will grow very tired of carrying the weak ones on a continual basis and especially the ones that should not be there to begin with.

George Carlin is/was right, the wussification of America.

I am not saying that Apple should not do business with the rest of the world but more like you get what you pay for.
 
So in your lame attempt to make a comparison, you miss the mark by a country mile. (Or by a factor of x96 land size US vs UAE.)
Just because you decide to engage in a semi-anti-social behavior you try to demonize others. A social norm that is pretty much accepted world-wide, by the way.

Everyone is now collectively dumber for having read your response.

Just in case you didn't get it, it was an intentionally fallacious analogy.

In any case, I give up - I suppose everyone is now rather enlightened by your insightful inference on Indians as a whole based on your limited experience with a small group of people in one far flung corner of the world
 
Not on the level I have experienced it.
If you spend several years working outside of the country (US), you will see the un-pleasant truths about certain cultures.
Rather than tipping toeing around the issue or being PC about, I try to warn others for what they are in-store for.
Once you get outside of your cubicle, you might actually learn a few things about life.
[doublepost=1463804890][/doublepost]

Truth...
I disagree but I respect your thoughts.
 
I have anger toward those that engage in continual lying, subversion and general deceit in order to gain employment or to further their career/employment. Especially when it involves a highly technical field and one that may very well be safety sensitive.
I am sensing in your world that everyone just needs a hug to make things better. I am also guess that your are a product of everyone gets a trophy and no one fails.
Guess what, that ain't the way the world works. You fail or pass on YOUR OWN MERITS. No group hug, no safe spaces, no participation trophy, if you can't cut it you are fired.
As a general rule, you don't get to choose your co-workers and you will grow very tired of carrying the weak ones on a continual basis and especially the ones that should not be there to begin with.

George Carlin is/was right, the wussification of America.

I am not saying that Apple should not do business with the rest of the world but more like you get what you pay for.

It's a losing battle. People who haven't experienced this first hand are just going to call you racist because that's their programming. Nevermind it has everything to do with education systems and culture in certain countries. There's no winning over minds on a forum where 90%+ aren't in actual software engineering, let alone management and hiring.
 
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Apple is now, officially, a dying company. I give it 10 years. Wall Street has taken over.

Sorry Apple employees, but look at the numbers. 4000 people? Do you really think it takes 4000 people to write an application? It's time to bail out, if you have an ounce of sense. Those 4000 people are being hired to replace you.

When Wall Street takes over a company, essentially the psychopaths have taken over. Wall Street declared war on the American people back in the vicinity of 1998-2001 via outsourcing and H1-B "insourcing." The nature of "money psychopaths" is very similar to Catholic priest pedophiles.

Many people wonder, "What is it about religion, or Catholicism in particular, that makes so many priests pedophiles?" It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with psychopathic obsession.

The Catholic church provides (or at least used to) the ultimate cover for a pedophile. Who would ever believe a priest was raping young boys or girls? Who would ever believe a man of God would commit such crimes? No one. Hence the perfect cover. Psychopathic pedophiles are so obsessed with their obsession that they go out of their way to become priests simply because this is (or at least was) a prime opportunity to commit their crimes.

The war on the American People by Wall Street is not dictated by cost, logic, quality, or reason, it's dictated by greed. Pure unbridled, unethical greed. A "money psychopath" is an individual that is so obsessed with collecting money that they will do anything to anybody anywhere on Earth to get more, and more, and more, and more....and it never ends. Like the pedophile priest, they only stop when they've been caught. Jobs must be outsourced to optimize profits. CEOs must respond to their demands or be replaced.

Here is my prediction of what will happen at Apple now that Wall Street is controlling the company:

  • Fake Layoffs to justify outsourcing: Whenever a company announces that it's laying off workers, the price of the stock goes up because all the idiots on Wall Street will see this as a "sign of efficiency." The reality is that large monied investors are leveraging their bets that they can rake in HUGE amounts of money just by doing this and purchasing large quantities of stock prior to the often massive layoff announcements. They'll line their pockets with money. Meanwhile, people with skills and talent will become demoralized and start quitting. I should add, the layoffs are frequently not even remotely justified.
  • The company uses third rate outsourced talent to replace those that leave. The idea here, of course, is to keep providing products. Wall Street could care less what the quality is, only the cost. How much more can they rake out of this harpooned whale before it finally dies?
  • The company starts collapsing. This is the natural effect of "Greed gone wild." Poor quality, less than extraordinary people, bottom line management. This is the natural "Wall Street progression" of business. The idea isn't to make a lasting company, the idea is to grab as much blubber from that harpooned whale before it sinks to the bottom of the sea.
  • The company is split into pieces. The final last gasp of Wall Street will be to sell off what they've just destroyed to the highest bidder. After this, the case is now closed. For all practical purposes, the company has been killed after being raped to death.
The signs of this are already apparent. A perfect example of this is Tim Cook's marketing stunt to "protect all his users from all those obtrusive, spying, evil entity governments that want back doors into an iPhone" so they could possibly find out more about the murders in San Bernadino by terrorists. I suspect the instructions for this antic came from Wall Street, who simply saw it as a marketing and sales tactic. Like a good, top notch performing seal, Tim obliged. But wait....it turns out the FBI could find someone that could crack the phone without Apple's help. End result: The FBI indirectly makes it OBVIOUS that the particular "secure" iPhone could be hacked. The marketing scheme has backfired. Apple announces that the ONLY phone that could be cracked was the type the FBI tested, but conveniently fails to acknowledge that the FBI didn't bother testing any other phones. This of course begs the question, "just exactly how secure are these things, especially since Apple Pay is now a 'secure' payment option?"

The writing is on the wall. Apple fired or forced out several of their key personnel after Steve Jobs died. OS X versions are coming out that are so buggy they're only functional AFTER a yet another new release comes out. The head of design seem to think a computer is a fashion statement that will look good when Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian appear with it as a fashion accessory on the cover of the National Enquirer. Tim Cook announces, essentially, that no one in their right mind would use a computer if they could use an iPad (which has had a huge sales drop since the "new, stylish" iOS 7 was released) apparently because he doesn't know or understand what many people use computers for any longer.

The party is over, guys. This company is a lost cause. First, crappy illogical products, and now massive outsourcing is in the wings. Wall Street couldn't pull this type of crap with Steve Jobs because this company was his "baby" and he loved it. I'm afraid the new leadership is psychopathic Wall Street based money grabbers and their pigeons, Tim Cook and Jony Ive. The goal here is simple: Tie that b*tch named Apple down and line up for the gang rape.

India and Indians are not the problem. The problem comes from bottom line management that intends to nickel and dime talent without regard to quality. Would anyone feel better if the work was outsourced to Viet Nam, Bangladesh, or China instead?

I worked as a consultant to a large networking/ISP provider that had essentially fired about 95% of their American workers and replaced them with H1B workers. In this case, the foreign companies would bring the workers in as their own employees and they would work for the foreign companies getting paid a salary that would be suitable for their own country of origin, but be nowhere near what the salary would be in the U.S. The foreign company actually bought tons of condos and it would allow the workers to stay in them as part of the package as long as their work permits were good. There was a constant influx of these people entering the U.S., working for several months, and then being cycled back to their nation of origin, just to be replaced by another worker. The foreign company was working under contract with the network/ISP provider.

The job I was hired to fix was a pricing problem. For example if someone bought three web packages for $39.95 with a 10% discount, the total before discount would be $119.85. A 10% discount amounts to $11.985, and that's what the problem was - a customer buying this would be given a bill of:

$119.85 - $11.985 = $107.865

In a nutshell, they didn't know how to handle currency rounding. The network/ISP provider had let this go on for about 3-4 months, which was why I was brought in. It took me a whopping 2 hours to go through their billing code and fix the problem. Anyone that knew what they were doing could have fixed this in no time at all.

Here are some other things I observed:

  • An H1B senior software engineer that didn't know how to compile an application
  • Typically, the "highly trained" replacement workers when entering the US would immediately register for 1st year level computer science courses at the local community college whereas the US employees that they replaced typically had a BS or MS in computer science or EE.
  • Complete lack of familiarity with operating systems other than Windows (most of the servers at this company were Unix) and even with Windows, they were lacking.
  • The place was in a continual state of chaos

This isn't just bottom line management, this is a sign of management that doesn't know what they're doing. They're just looking at the bottom line and think since they paid XXX amount of money, for, say 1,000 H1B workers, then they got the equivalent of 1000 non-H1B workers. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is utter stupidity. The corporate management has absolutely no idea how much money they're likely wasting.

Mr. Cook's offshoring is, to me, a sign of this mentality. I suspect the true intent of this group will be to allow him to start cutting costs by letting US based workers go and using them as their replacements. However, because these aren't H1B workers, the savings will be even greater. True, classic, idiotic, American bottom line management.

The Apple that you used to love has rotted.
 
It's a losing battle. People who haven't experienced this first hand are just going to call you racist because that's their programming. Nevermind it has everything to do with education systems and culture in certain countries. There's no winning over minds on a forum where 90%+ aren't in actual software engineering, let alone management and hiring.
I am an enterprise software architect and been in the tech industry for more than a decade and I do involve in designing the systems as well as hiring. My discussion with fedup flyer is all about sharing my thoughts nothing offensive against him I respect people and their thoughts we are not fighting a battle here sir.
[doublepost=1463946102][/doublepost]
India and Indians are not the problem. The problem comes from bottom line management that intends to nickel and dime talent without regard to quality. Would anyone feel better if the work was outsourced to Viet Nam, Bangladesh, or China instead?

I worked as a consultant to a large networking/ISP provider that had essentially fired about 95% of their American workers and replaced them with H1B workers. In this case, the foreign companies would bring the workers in as their own employees and they would work for the foreign companies getting paid a salary that would be suitable for their own country of origin, but be nowhere near what the salary would be in the U.S. The foreign company actually bought tons of condos and it would allow the workers to stay in them as part of the package as long as their work permits were good. There was a constant influx of these people entering the U.S., working for several months, and then being cycled back to their nation of origin, just to be replaced by another worker. The foreign company was working under contract with the network/ISP provider.

The job I was hired to fix was a pricing problem. For example if someone bought three web packages for $39.95 with a 10% discount, the total before discount would be $119.85. A 10% discount amounts to $11.985, and that's what the problem was - a customer buying this would be given a bill of:

$119.85 - $11.985 = $107.865

In a nutshell, they didn't know how to handle currency rounding. The network/ISP provider had let this go on for about 3-4 months, which was why I was brought in. It took me a whopping 2 hours to go through their billing code and fix the problem. Anyone that knew what they were doing could have fixed this in no time at all.

Here are some other things I observed:

  • An H1B senior software engineer that didn't know how to compile an application
  • Typically, the "highly trained" replacement workers when entering the US would immediately register for 1st year level computer science courses at the local community college whereas the US employees that they replaced typically had a BS or MS in computer science or EE.
  • Complete lack of familiarity with operating systems other than Windows (most of the servers at this company were Unix) and even with Windows, they were lacking.
  • The place was in a continual state of chaos

This isn't just bottom line management, this is a sign of management that doesn't know what they're doing. They're just looking at the bottom line and think since they paid XXX amount of money, for, say 1,000 H1B workers, then they got the equivalent of 1000 non-H1B workers. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is utter stupidity. The corporate management has absolutely no idea how much money they're likely wasting.

Mr. Cook's offshoring is, to me, a sign of this mentality. I suspect the true intent of this group will be to allow him to start cutting costs by letting US based workers go and using them as their replacements. However, because these aren't H1B workers, the savings will be even greater. True, classic, idiotic, American bottom line management.

The Apple that you used to love has rotted.
Apple is still loved across the world. It is a global company not just American company. Majority of H1b's most of the times are even better. It basically depends hiring the right ones if we are able to get right ones their dedication and commitment levels are much higher. Most of the companies know how to hire the right people and they are hiring the right people. Most of the companies has more overseas customer compared to domestic market.
 
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The degree of rampant generalization on this thread is amazing!
I agree with you whole heartedly. Well said.

I met a man from America once who only had one eye. What on earth are developers doing with this VR project when Americans can't see in stereo. It's just a plain ridiculous waste of cash. The other thing that struck me was why are there no women in that country!

That is this thread all over.
 
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You hire Indians in mass, not because they're good, but because they are cheap.

Improving the quality of maps doesn't require one genius, or a dozen geniuses, it requires lots and lots of people who are willing to do a not very exciting job in a reliable way.
[doublepost=1463952048][/doublepost]
They're traitorous RATS and this jobs give away to foreign countries must END. Enough of this. God's sake, we'll all be flipping hamburgers. So if this work is labor intensive set it up in Sonora, CA., Labor rates are less than half of Silicon Valley and 4,000 Americans desperately in need of jobs will be working. Trump has to stop this ****. It's why we're electing him. The only things left in the U.S. from Apple in 10 years will be the G.D. cash registers to ring up their sales. All their jobs will have gone overseas. The damn Traitors! And that's what the are. Good Business decision? ********!

Trump will throw out all muslims and Indians and make stupid haircuts mandatory. Is that what you want?

PS. If Trump gets into power, I wouldn't be surprised if Americans _were_ relegated to flipping hamburgers soon after.
 



In line with previous rumors and confirmations, Apple today announced the opening of a new development center in Hyderabad, India focused on Apple Maps development.

waverock_hyderabad.jpg

WaveRock campus in Hyderabad, India

The new center, launched in partnership with RMSI, will employ up to 4,000 workers, with the announcement coming as part of Tim Cook's ongoing trip to China and India.According to previous reports, the new center at Tishman Speyer's WaveRock campus in Hyderabad is 250,000 square feet, with Apple investing $25 million in the project.

The news comes a day after Apple announced plans to open an iOS App Design and Development Accelerator in Bangalore, India. That center, intended to aid Indian app developers in adopting Apple's Swift programming language and help with development and one-on-one app reviews, is planned to open early next year.

Article Link: Apple to Hire 4,000 Employees in Hyderabad, India to Work on Maps Development

I guess we can conclude that Tim Cook never read The Mythical Man-Month which posits that “adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.”
 
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Traitorous RATS. What about employing Americans? What the hell is all this employment for INDIANS? I hope Trump nails Cook's ass to the floor and taxes the hell out of Apple until they remember who they are, where they are, and where they came from. Not to mention who has made them so very wealthy. America and Americans! That's who. He's traded away American Jobs. If I had my way he'd be horse whipped for this. Wake up America!
Global economy is not about a single country and Apple is a global tech giant it is not just an American company anymore. Do you know overseas market of Apple is much bigger than the domestic market? Do you think is it possible to ask companies to stop doing business with the rest of the world? Do you think other countries will allow US head quartered companies to do business with them if US restricts job visas to them? Do you think other countries will provide access to their market for the US tech companies if they are not ready invest in their countries or in their countries talent? Who ever wins nothing is going to change global economy is a huge framework built over the years to encourage world trade and WTO controls it. It is not possible to move away from that framework with out damaging the economies.
 
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Global economy is not about a single country and Apple is a global tech giant it is not just an American company anymore. Do you know overseas market of Apple is much bigger than the domestic market? Do you think is it possible to ask companies to stop doing business with the rest of the world? Do you think other countries will allow US head quartered companies to do business with them if US restricts job visas to them? Do you think other countries will provide access to their market for the US tech companies if they are not ready invest in their countries or in their countries talent? Who ever wins nothing is going to change global economy is a huge framework built over the years to encourage world trade and WTO controls it. It is not possible to move away from that framework with out damaging the economies.

I think that if Apple wants to bend over to the Chinese and the Indians, it should spin off companies dedicated to those markets. Garage Band for the US market should not be contaminated with Chinese musical instruments which won't get used by musicians in the US, and vice versa.
 
I have a Macbook pro, an iPad, an iPhone, a Mac Pro, and with this move, I'm not buying anymore. It was okay with Foxconn, companies have to do that to stay competitive, but Apple is comprised of a bunch of greedy tax dodgers who don't give a damn about our America. I'm done with the rotten Apple.


People complain that Apple doesn't invest enough in Maps; then people complain that Maps isn't run like an American employment agency. Sigh. And what the heck does hiring oversees employees have to do with tax avoidance? It seems like a lot of random ideas are all getting muddled together.
 
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I think that if Apple wants to bend over to the Chinese and the Indians, it should spin off companies dedicated to those markets. Garage Band for the US market should not be contaminated with Chinese musical instruments which won't get used by musicians in the US, and vice versa.
US market will have everything US has considerable Chinese and Indian population. Music is global we need to understand that. Apple is global brand and a global company it is establishing its branches where ever it is required. I believe it can run its operations from anywhere in the world we are living in a global community. I see many comments posted here ignoring global trade. If we think US economy is not benefited by global trade we are wrong. Hollywood movies are watched every where in the world in theaters are they not employing American technicians? Software or products designed in US is sold every where across the world what is wrong if we give something back to them? US Companies are big corporations because of global trade and volume of jobs they are generating in US is because of global trade. Do we think Apple is selling 50 million plus iphones each quarter in US alone? We are seeing those numbers because of global trade.
 
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US market will have everything US has considerable Chinese and Indian population. Music is global we need to understand that. Apple is global brand and a global company it is establishing its branches where ever it is required. I believe it can run its operations from anywhere in the world we are living in a global community. I see many comments posted here ignoring global trade. If we think US economy is not benefited by global trade we are wrong. Hollywood movies are watched every where in the world in theaters are they not employing American technicians? Software or products designed in US is sold every where across the world what is wrong if we give something back to them? US Companies are big corporations because of global trade and volume of jobs they are generating in US is because of global trade. Do we think Apple is selling 50 million plus iphones each quarter in US alone? We are seeing those numbers because of global trade.


Here's your "free trade" and globalization, fella:

https://www.thedollarbusiness.com/news/indias-policy-barriers-hurting-imports-from-usa-usitc/11062
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...by-u-s-for-trade-barriers-on-autos-steel-dvds

I'm not a big fan of Donald Trump, but one thing I think he and Bernie Sanders have right is that the U.S. is victimizing it's own people through bad trade deals. The first time I came into contact with NAFTA was several years ago when doing my taxes. There was an IRS write off that I wanted to examine to see if I was eligible for it so I looked into it. It was a tax credit that people who had lost their job because of outsourcing caused by NAFTA. All I could think to myself is "Imagine that, you lost your job, so they give you a tax credit, and call everything even." America's race to the bottom thus began.

I would also hardly call running trade deficits on the order of hundreds of billions of dollars a benefit or free trade, that's stacked trade - stacked against the U.S. that is.

Finally the whole gist of the argument is about the suspicion that Tim Cook intends to use the facility to start getting rid of his American staff. Others have done it, and since Tim hardly strikes me as the sharpest man on the planet, why not join the other CEO lemmings as they run over the cliff.
 
India and Indians are not the problem. The problem comes from bottom line management that intends to nickel and dime talent without regard to quality. Would anyone feel better if the work was outsourced to Viet Nam, Bangladesh, or China instead?

I worked as a consultant to a large networking/ISP provider that had essentially fired about 95% of their American workers and replaced them with H1B workers. In this case, the foreign companies would bring the workers in as their own employees and they would work for the foreign companies getting paid a salary that would be suitable for their own country of origin, but be nowhere near what the salary would be in the U.S. The foreign company actually bought tons of condos and it would allow the workers to stay in them as part of the package as long as their work permits were good. There was a constant influx of these people entering the U.S., working for several months, and then being cycled back to their nation of origin, just to be replaced by another worker. The foreign company was working under contract with the network/ISP provider.

The job I was hired to fix was a pricing problem. For example if someone bought three web packages for $39.95 with a 10% discount, the total before discount would be $119.85. A 10% discount amounts to $11.985, and that's what the problem was - a customer buying this would be given a bill of:

$119.85 - $11.985 = $107.865

In a nutshell, they didn't know how to handle currency rounding. The network/ISP provider had let this go on for about 3-4 months, which was why I was brought in. It took me a whopping 2 hours to go through their billing code and fix the problem. Anyone that knew what they were doing could have fixed this in no time at all.

Here are some other things I observed:

  • An H1B senior software engineer that didn't know how to compile an application
  • Typically, the "highly trained" replacement workers when entering the US would immediately register for 1st year level computer science courses at the local community college whereas the US employees that they replaced typically had a BS or MS in computer science or EE.
  • Complete lack of familiarity with operating systems other than Windows (most of the servers at this company were Unix) and even with Windows, they were lacking.
  • The place was in a continual state of chaos

This isn't just bottom line management, this is a sign of management that doesn't know what they're doing. They're just looking at the bottom line and think since they paid XXX amount of money, for, say 1,000 H1B workers, then they got the equivalent of 1000 non-H1B workers. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is utter stupidity. The corporate management has absolutely no idea how much money they're likely wasting.

Mr. Cook's offshoring is, to me, a sign of this mentality. I suspect the true intent of this group will be to allow him to start cutting costs by letting US based workers go and using them as their replacements. However, because these aren't H1B workers, the savings will be even greater. True, classic, idiotic, American bottom line management.

The Apple that you used to love has rotted.

Maybe the H1B engineers you saw are turds (if these people are not straw men and figment of your imagination), but the ones I worked with in Silicon Valley were extremely competent and came from top end schools. I worked in a large systems startup so the kind of engineer we hired had to be on top of their game to even understand half of what was going on. There is no way we could have staffed this company with local talents; no way, and we looked for it too.

Guess my engineers, I was a systems architect and lead on those projects, were all "idiots" by your esteemed info...

BTW, The only thing that is rotting is your worthless opinion.
 
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Maybe the H1B engineers you saw are turds (if these people are not straw men and figment of your imagination), but the ones I worked with in Silicon Valley were extremely competent and came from top end schools. I worked in a large systems startup so the kind of engineer we hired had to be on top of their game to even understand half of what was going on. There is no way we could have staffed this company with local talents; no way, and we looked for it too.

Guess my engineers, I was a systems architect and lead on those projects, were all "idiots" by your esteemed info...

BTW, The only thing that is rotting is your worthless opinion.

So let me get this straight. You worked for a Silicon Valley super-duper ultra high tech startup company and when searching for personnel the only people competent enough to do the work were discount H1B visa workers, right? Yeah....that's believable - NOT!!

I think most of us that have worked in the tech industry some time have probably experienced exactly what OldGuyTom is talking about.

Allow me to ask a simple question: If these H1B guys are so great, why aren't they developing their own products and distributing them to the world as original products instead of offering themselves up as discount replacement employees?
 
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Here's your "free trade" and globalization, fella:

https://www.thedollarbusiness.com/news/indias-policy-barriers-hurting-imports-from-usa-usitc/11062
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...by-u-s-for-trade-barriers-on-autos-steel-dvds

I'm not a big fan of Donald Trump, but one thing I think he and Bernie Sanders have right is that the U.S. is victimizing it's own people through bad trade deals. The first time I came into contact with NAFTA was several years ago when doing my taxes. There was an IRS write off that I wanted to examine to see if I was eligible for it so I looked into it. It was a tax credit that people who had lost their job because of outsourcing caused by NAFTA. All I could think to myself is "Imagine that, you lost your job, so they give you a tax credit, and call everything even." America's race to the bottom thus began.

I would also hardly call running trade deficits on the order of hundreds of billions of dollars a benefit or free trade, that's stacked trade - stacked against the U.S. that is.

Finally the whole gist of the argument is about the suspicion that Tim Cook intends to use the facility to start getting rid of his American staff. Others have done it, and since Tim hardly strikes me as the sharpest man on the planet, why not join the other CEO lemmings as they run over the cliff.

I think the solution to figure out what is exactly happening is stop all the world trade including movies and see where we stand in terms of our economy and jobs generated by domestic market. I am sure we will then understand the jobs generated just by our domestic market and how US economy is benefited from world trade perhaps we will experience more job loss than we are experiencing today.

I know US is requesting India to open their market for FDI and it is happening but it is slow but once we adopt protectionist measure they will hit back at us and this has already happened and US is also targeting India to increase US exports. Please read the below links sir.

http://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/bridges/news/india-to-challenge-visa-fees-at-wto-official
http://www.ictsd.org/bridges-news/b...-wto-challenge-against-india-solar-incentives

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/ec...eform-to-attract-fdi-us-official_6683581.html

The problem is hiring a good engineer if there is no competition from h1b's or outsourcing hiring a good engineer will be very expensive forget about good engineer hiring an average engineer will also be very expensive. Do you know there are engineers who charge more than $300-$400/hour? I am sure if we charge around $100/hour we are in business and nobody can take away our job. A college grad expects $100K as their salary for the same price corporates can hire a H1b with more than 10 years of experience or outsource the job for a fraction of cost.

Corporates has one more option other than H1b and offshoring it is near shoring. Do you know Canada allows express entry for H1b's?

Read this
http://allhod.com/canada-immigration/canadian-alternatives-for-h-1b-workers-in-the-u-s/

If we block talent to enter US there are other nations eagerly waiting to attract them and boost their economy.

We need to learn to be competitive blocking is not at all a solution now.
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So let me get this straight. You worked for a Silicon Valley super-duper ultra high tech startup company and when searching for personnel the only people competent enough to do the work were discount H1B visa workers, right? Yeah....that's believable - NOT!!

I think most of us that have worked in the tech industry some time have probably experienced exactly what OldGuyTom is talking about.

Allow me to ask a simple question: If these H1B guys are so great, why aren't they developing their own products and distributing them to the world as original products instead of offering themselves up as discount replacement employees?
Most of the passionate programmers may not be good at business. There are lot of companies from Indians which are projected as US companies. For example Exploride it is headquartered in Maryland how many of us know it is an Indian company?

Check these links

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-orders-worth-500000/articleshow/49260146.cms

https://www.linkedin.com/company/exploride
https://www.techinasia.com/exploride-is-the-biggest-crowdfunding-success-in-india

One more example Kony labs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kony,_Inc.
http://www.kony.com/

All the developer suites from kony are designed and developed in India and used by many engineers worldwide to build mobile solutions which we use every day.
 
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More jobs leaving the US. Let's raise corporate taxes, the minimum wage and salaries and OT pay. That'll make companies want to bring more work to the US!

Viewed that way, the mistake is allowing companies that choice. If they have no choice but to keep their operations local, you can raise corporate taxes, the minimum wage, salaries, and overtime pay, and they just have to suck it up and figure out more honest ways to profit.
 
4000 Indians is also equivalent to about 3 Silicon Valley salaries.

Cost of living and other factors - let's talk about the big and whole picture instead of this cherrypicking.

Besides, after Americans forced to train H1B replacements, corporate welfare, profit margin being a puny 75% for each phone, there's a hell of a lot more going on than scapegoating 3 ****ing workers and people are too cowardly to want to discuss the bigger picture. Even Cook has made excuses, such as what's in - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-paul/tim-cooks-views-on-americ_b_8854910.html - but plenty of articles are posted by the mainstream media. If they're all wrong, everyone is waiting for unfettered honesty from him. Especially when the answers are simple, especially when he gets enough in corporate welfare and has all those lobbyists to write his tax laws he tells us he hates... he also adores the TPP. How much greedier can he possibly get and didn't the decade of greed end in 1989??

Lots of stats on profit margins and other issues exist, but I'll just put out one quote from that article:

I wish Tim Cook would give American workers a chance. Instead, he's stuck in the Dickensian model of cheap, exploitable labor to make a buck.

But that's okay until it's you who is affected, at which point it's always the fault of them commie libruls... which makes as much sense as saying "The sky is blue because a bird puked on it"
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Viewed that way, the mistake is allowing companies that choice. If they have no choice but to keep their operations local, you can raise corporate taxes, the minimum wage, salaries, and overtime pay, and they just have to suck it up and figure out more honest ways to profit.

What he doesn't get is that companies have offshored jobs for years, long before NAFTA, long before putting on any dog and pony show.

Gates was offshoring and giving free source code to China lots of times. Despite its piracy rate, so Microsoft probably doesn't take piracy too seriously.

http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/07/23/100134488/index.htm

Research shows MS was handing out freebies to other countries long before 2007...

Now a couple years after that Fortune article, CEO Ballmer puts out what was described as a terroristic threat:

http://www.businessinsider.com/ballmer-threatens-obama-says-hell-move-jobs-overseas-2009-6

Of course, in 2000 he was calling open source software "cancer" or "communism" but by 2015 utterly loves it (google it), so maybe all these folks that use open source (Linux, FreeBSD, etc) are the true communists that rightwingers mistake liberals as being?

Oh my... and MS isn't the only company.


And despite all the CEOs' complaints, they are quick to overlook the corporate welfare we taxpayers pay for, the lobbyists they hire to make the laws (which they tell us they hate, yet they still want to meddle in government and take money from it while telling us how government involvement in the free market only hurts the market, and so on...)

One could give these companies a -500% tax rate and every other handout, break, and freebie and they will still not have enough. Didn't the "decade of greed" end in 1989? Apparently not, almost 3 decades later.

Never mind all the corporate welfare, which taxpayers spend far more on than other forms of assistance (google it, I'm tired of posting links that people won't read or consider), the fact the anti-Sanders people use the word "freebie" against working class folks yet grossly ignore every ****ing handout the corporate side has received, it's really amazing... But freebies or whatever, even Trump had a point as to why Apple should be coming back here. The reasons aren't that hard and some are hidden in plain sight, and he was right...
 
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this could go either way, but as with Apple Maps, it's the wrong way again
 
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