Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
How wold you know the reason people buy these laptops? You say that 13" is too small? Do you know what the most popular laptops are now? Netbooks. You cannot just say how you feel and back it up with nothing.
Netbooks aren't (typical) notebooks. 15-inch notebooks are (usually) the standard now-a-days. Fact is, many people want a bigger screen and there is no logical reason for Apple to not have a consumer laptop that is 15 inches (or 16).



Why would Apple replace it with something that is more than twice as slow? You are all about specs. Well specs mean speed. LOL. You want it to be slower?
Because more devices use USB.



The Macbook Pro 17" battery lasts 5 YEARS.
Unless it gets hot or blows up or fudges up somehow, then you have to replace it.

You have not yet stated evidence (not from a manufacturer) that shows battery life of a 17" that approaches the MBP. BTW, who wants a makeshift battery that sticks out the back of the computer.

Well, for the price of a MacBook Pro, you can get a 12-cell battery with a notebook that will increase its lifespan by like 5 hours. Of course, it does "stick out of the back of the computer" but who wants a battery that can't even be removed?

Read it again. The battery life on average is double for OS X.
But we are talking about hardware, not the OS. The MacBook had a worse battery life for Vista



The tech specs I showed were for the X300 not T500. BTW the T500 that you pointed out has worse specs. The only thing that is superior is the processor and it is more expensive machine at $2300. The MBP has a larger hard drive, better graphics card, lighter, same amount of 2gb ddr3, and is less expensive. The reason that the thinkpad has longer battery life is because the reviewer opted for a 9-cell instead of the 6-cell that it came with. I could just get another battery for the MBP for $129 and have the same battery life with better specs at a cheaper price. The battery also doesn't stick out of the back of the machine like a sore thumb.
You are right about those specs, but there are many different Thinkpad models - including a $1000 version with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM, Radeon 256MB graphics, a 2.4GHz IC2D for the same price as a MacBook.

$129? lol, a 9-cell upgrade for the Thinkpad is only $70 extra and is still $500 cheaper than a comparable MacBook.

DDR3 RAM does not acount for a 2.5x increase in graphics performance in crysis. It has been well known for some time that apple customizes the graphics cards they put in their machines. Chances are that is the reason for the leap in performance. When you control hardware and software, it gives you a greater edge. You just pointed out out the T500 which does not have superior specs, but rather inferior, and is more expensive.
GDDR3 (graphics memory), not DDR3 RAM.


You just pointed out out the T500 which does not have superior specs, but rather inferior, and is more expensive. But Lenovo does have great build quality though! LOL
Lenovo is far better than Apple at hardware.


You're making me dizzy. You just said in a previous post that Apple had lousy support. You point out lousy support but show no evidence.
Read these forums.

You cannot say that OS X is great and then complain about the 4850 (which was an OS X issue). If you had OS X on a Dell with a 4850, you would have had the same issue. There was still no mention of the problems of Vista initially having problems with Nvidia cards or the issues with laptops not being "Vista capable" when it said so on the box. The report I mentioned may not suit you. You can look at any report of support of the last 10 years and Apple would be at the top. This report comes as no surprise or shock to anyone.
Vista is a failure, no one uses Vista unless they are forced to and then they switch back to XP (and soon 7 anyways).

It's when you spend $2500 on a notebook that is worth $1500 at the most, you try to rationalize it and say you are super satisfied.
 
But we are talking about hardware, not the OS. The MacBook had a worse battery life for Vista
While the hardware needs to provide the basic controls & sensors needed to manage power efficiently, it's the operating system's responsibility to use them well. If Vista didn't rise to the occasion, one can't blame the hardware.
 
While the hardware needs to provide the basic controls & sensors needed to manage power efficiently, it's the operating system's responsibility to use them well. If Vista didn't rise to the occasion, one can't blame the hardware.
The Vista on the Thinkpad lasted longer than the MacBook.
 
Netbooks aren't (typical) notebooks. 15-inch notebooks are (usually) the standard now-a-days. Fact is, many people want a bigger screen and there is no logical reason for Apple to not have a consumer laptop that is 15 inches (or 16).

You're original point is most want screen sizes. You cite no evidence. Yet if you look at netbooks (most have 8" screens)they sell the most. Your reasoning holds no water. Don't say "fact is" when you provide no facts.

Because more devices use USB.

Yes, but the MBP is a professional laptop and a lot of professional gear have FW800. If you're so big on specs, shouldn't you be asking everyone to be using FW800 instead?

You are right about those specs, but there are many different Thinkpad models - including a $1000 version with 2 gigs of DDR3 RAM, Radeon 256MB graphics, a 2.4GHz IC2D for the same price as a MacBook.

I just went to a site you linked to. I'm not going to every website and spec out a machine. I have a life to live as well. Quite simply your argument you made in a previous post is not valid.

$129? lol, a 9-cell upgrade for the Thinkpad is only $70 extra and is still $500 cheaper than a comparable MacBook.

Like I said I don't have all day to go around looking up specs. You showed me a machine. I added for the price of the battery for a MBP and it still came out cheaper than the product you linked to.

Lenovo is far better than Apple at hardware.

That is the one decent argument you've made yet. I still believe that Apple's quality is better. I linked for you a MBP that took a bullet and probably saved someone's life. The machine still worked. Here is another link: http://gizmodo.com/5215296/unibody-construction-helps-macbook-air-survive-plane-crash
This MBA was just in a plane crash and the machine still booted. It is good enough condition that it allowed the person to retrieve all their data. What's your proof? Not to mention Thinkpads are as ugly as sin.

Read these forums.

Did you read all the forum posts of people that were happy with their machines? It was a software issue. Not even a huge one. Like I said you cannot say OS X is great, that it should be open, and then complain about the 4850. It was an OS X issue.

It's when you spend $2500 on a notebook that is worth $1500 at the most, you try to rationalize it and say you are super satisfied.

For the third time in this post, I will say that you linked to me a review of a Thinkpad that was more expensive than the MBP with lesser specs. Not only that but you continue to make arguments for a cheaper machine without acknowledging things such as build quality (except for the more expensive Lenovo). Your changing your arguments to whatever you feel you can win at.
 
While the hardware needs to provide the basic controls & sensors needed to manage power efficiently, it's the operating system's responsibility to use them well. If Vista didn't rise to the occasion, one can't blame the hardware.

The Vista on the Thinkpad lasted longer than the MacBook.

Exactly - power management on the laptop is due to cooperation between the operating system and the hardware drivers provided by the hardware vendor.

Would you really expect Apple to provide power-optimized drivers for Vista?

For the love of gord, Apple didn't even have Itunes running when Vista shipped - even though the final bits had been available to everyone for months.

Ok, what's the situation:
  • Apple actively sabotages Itunes on Vista, and Vista boot camp drivers
  • Vista doesn't last as long on battery on an Apple as OSX does

Yes, "Vista sucks" is the right conclusion! :eek:
 
You're original point is most want screen sizes. You cite no evidence. Yet if you look at netbooks (most have 8" screens)they sell the most. Your reasoning holds no water. Don't say "fact is" when you provide no facts.
Netbooks cannot be compared to laptops (2 totally different type of machines). Anyways, the best selling laptops have 15+ inch screen sizes (with the exception of the MacBook).


Yes, but the MBP is a professional laptop and a lot of professional gear have FW800. If you're so big on specs, shouldn't you be asking everyone to be using FW800 instead?
Even people here don't think the MacBook Pro is a professional laptop (it isn't). But Firewire 800 is superior but the fact is more devices use USB.



I just went to a site you linked to. I'm not going to every website and spec out a machine. I have a life to live as well. Quite simply your argument you made in a previous post is not valid.
Riiight.



Like I said I don't have all day to go around looking up specs. You showed me a machine. I added for the price of the battery for a MBP and it still came out cheaper than the product you linked to.
I don't even know where that website got its specs cause you can on the Thinkpad website and configure something as powerful for $1000 cheaper.

That is the one decent argument you've made yet. I still believe that Apple's quality is better. I linked for you a MBP that took a bullet and probably saved someone's life. The machine still worked. Here is another link: http://gizmodo.com/5215296/unibody-construction-helps-macbook-air-survive-plane-crash
That's pretty cool, too bad they break down a lot (but they sure are sturdy!).

This MBA was just in a plane crash and the machine still booted. It is good enough condition that it allowed the person to retrieve all their data. What's your proof? Not to mention Thinkpads are as ugly as sin.
I like the ThinkPad design more, actually. Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Did you read all the forum posts of people that were happy with their machines? It was a software issue. Not even a huge one. Like I said you cannot say OS X is great, that it should be open, and then complain about the 4850. It was an OS X issue.
It was an Apple issue for shipping the 4850 with it.


For the third time in this post, I will say that you linked to me a review of a Thinkpad that was more expensive than the MBP with lesser specs. Not only that but you continue to make arguments for a cheaper machine without acknowledging things such as build quality (except for the more expensive Lenovo). Your changing your arguments to whatever you feel you can win at.
PC notebooks have better build quality than the super hot, breaks-down-a-lot MacBooks.
 
Exactly - power management on the laptop is due to cooperation between the operating system and the hardware drivers provided by the hardware vendor.

Would you really expect Apple to provide power-optimized drivers for Vista?

For the love of gord, Apple didn't even have Itunes running when Vista shipped - even though the final bits had been available to everyone for months.

Ok, what's the situation:
  • Apple actively sabotages Itunes on Vista, and Vista boot camp drivers
  • Vista doesn't last as long on battery on an Apple as OSX does

Yes, "Vista sucks" is the right conclusion! :eek:
Then why do comparisons? It's not like I did the comparisons. Don't post them if they aren't even valid anyways (I know you didn't post them, Shaw).
 

Attachments

  • Sheila.png
    Sheila.png
    1.1 MB · Views: 82
Wasn't there, but apparently, there were other witnesses present:

That doesnt imply a bribe to not choose the mac. Who knows, maybe they filmed 10 of those commercials and could only use one because the rest bought the $2000 MB.
 
Heck drop the Mini by 200, you have a wonderfully priced computer(regardless of OS...OS X makes it that much better) even 100 would make it seem a better deal.


Also 2GB of RAM, 160 GB HDD to the basic model
 
Exactly - power management on the laptop is due to cooperation between the operating system and the hardware drivers provided by the hardware vendor.

Would you really expect Apple to provide power-optimized drivers for Vista?

For the love of gord, Apple didn't even have Itunes running when Vista shipped - even though the final bits had been available to everyone for months.

Ok, what's the situation:
  • Apple actively sabotages Itunes on Vista, and Vista boot camp drivers
  • Vista doesn't last as long on battery on an Apple as OSX does

Yes, "Vista sucks" is the right conclusion! :eek:

An important part of "denial" is to find and embrace an alternate reality that more-or-less fits with the facts.

Tell us about it - only problem, your denial rarely fits more-or-less with any facts.
 
I don't even know where that website got its specs cause you can on the Thinkpad website and configure something as powerful for $1000 cheaper.

To me it seems like the majority of the ThinkPad pro models are "more powerful for a hell of a lot more."

Take the ThinkPad W700ds...Intel Core 2 Quad processor, 8 GB of RAM, 320 GB hard drive + 128 GB SSD, 1 GB NVIDIA Quadro FX graphics card, integrated WiMAX/WiFi, BD burner, a second 10.6" screen that slides out from the main display, and a Wacom digitizer built into the palm rest.

This f**ker is $7,100. I wonder how easily this could be Hackint0shed. :eek:
 
when i bought the bottom of the range 2.2gHz Macbook Pro 2 years ago it was $2699. The economy was booming, it was good value while still be a considerable amount of money. Today, in the middle of a recession, a 2.4gHz Macook Pro costs $3199. A 20% increase in todays economic climate really represents poor value for money.

Fellow Aussie - This past weekend both JB HiFi and the brand new MacCentric store at Miranda had a 10% off all Apple products. I bought a new MacBook 2.4GHz to replace my one year old 2.4Ghz Pro. The Pro was priced at A$2879 - which is only 6.7% more than 2 years ago; the Macbook A$2398. The weak A$ makes a big difference to the price we pay - but paying 90% of list makes the Mac price bearable don't you think? And the MacCentric store bundled in another A$100 worth. I was tempted to stick with the Pro but fancied something smaller/lighter - and 13" is plenty big [I have a ASUS EEEPC 10" for rambling around, so 13" Macbook is huge...] Apple should stick with 10% off - MacCentric was way busy...
 
NO!

More USB ports, sure why not. It's universal and everyone uses them, but there still needs to be at least that ONE FW800 port on the machine.

I just read the poster you quoted and yours, so if I've taken this outta context I am sorry.

I don't think you've mis-read anything, you have a perfectly valid point.

Any mac without firewire is WORTHLESS for audio work. until USB 3.0 comes out, firewire or a second internal drive on an ATA/SATA connection is the only way you get full duplex recording and that's what anyone recording more than 2 or 3 mono tracks need. USB also taxes your CPU and if your running anything host based, every drop of performance comes in handy.
 
  • Apple actively sabotages iTunes on Vista, and Vista Boot Camp drivers
  • Vista doesn't last as long on battery on a Mac as OS X does

Very subjective. Due to heavy market saturation of iPods and iPhones, millions of people have iTunes installed on their Windows PCs. It would make little sense for Apple to try and "sabotage" the very thing that allows iPods to have such a huge market share. I don't see what incentive they have to do that. You really aren't suggesting that they've programmed iTunes.exe to crash occasionally in the hopes that the user will give up and say, "F**k this, I'm getting a Mac!", are you? :rolleyes:

As for the Boot Camp drivers, there's a clear difference between "sabotaging" and "half-assing". To Apple, Boot Camp is used by PC-to-Mac switchers who are more than likely only going to boot into Windows about once every 3 months and eventually quit using it entirely once they've fully converted to OS X. ;) Making sure Vista runs smoothly and perfectly (if that's even possible) :eek: is not Apple's bitch.
 
just give me a smaller and cheaper mac pro line... something I can choose to later upgrade the card, drive, and such, cheaper.
 
It would make little sense for Apple to try and "sabotage" the very thing that allows iPods to have such a huge market share.

Apple was attempting to sabotage Vista's intro, not XP.

http://gigaom.com/2007/02/04/vista-itunes/
http://digg.com/apple/Vista_does_not_support_itunes
http://cybernetnews.com/2007/03/06/apple-itunes-71-safely-removing-ipod-on-vista-can-corrupt-it/

Considering that Vista was released to business customers (and of course everyone in MSDN and Microsoft's partner programs) on 30 November -- what explanation other than sabotage would explain Apple's failure to test and update Itunes during the two months between first release and the consumer release on 30 January?


Making sure Vista runs smoothly and perfectly (if that's even possible) :eek: is not Apple's bitch.

Disagree. This page makes it Apple's problem: http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bootcamp.html
 
Apple was attempting to sabotage Vista's intro, not XP.

They needn't have worried...Vista eventually sabotaged itself! :D

Considering that Vista was released to business customers (and of course everyone in MSDN and Microsoft's partner programs) on 30 November -- what explanation other than sabotage would explain Apple's failure to test and update iTunes during the two months between first release and the consumer release on 30 January?

LOL. Might I remind you that Vista, at its release, was pure, total, Titanic-hitting-iceberg EPIC FAIL. Again, I repeat: Why spend the time making sure iTunes runs on Vista, since Vista barely ran at all? :D </slight sarcasm>

Fast forward to present, and iTunes runs fine on Vista (I just used it to sync songs to my iPod on a friend's computer several days ago.) Several service packs later, all seems to be well, Captain. ;)

I still don't see any sabotage, but whatever. Moving right along.......
 
just give me a smaller and cheaper mac pro line... something I can choose to later upgrade the card, drive, and such, cheaper.

Hmm.... a Mac tower with the same configurable specs as the G5 (two HDD, one optical, 4-8 RAM slots, dual core CPU, 2-4 standard PCIe slots) only a tad smaller since the Intels run cooler and don't need all the fans and liquid cooling.


Sounds sweet.


Oh yeah, and FW800 x 2.... no exceptions.
 
Heck drop the Mini by 200, you have a wonderfully priced computer(regardless of OS...OS X makes it that much better) even 100 would make it seem a better deal.

They should have done that regardless of the "economic crisis". The Mini is not worth $599.00 no matter how you slice it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.