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Apple to Make All New Mac Shipments Adobe Flash-Free

archurban said:
well done Steve. you screw up everything. but I can still install them by myself.
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If you're not downloading and installing Flash yourself already, and using the same version that came with your computer, well... you're *****ed.

Here, come visit this website I made... it's got lots of lovely Flash things in it. I'm sure you'll enjoy it... I'm a friend of your mommy... would you like a candy and a ride in my van?
 
err404 said:
Well the last time Apple fell behind the current version of Flash Adobe pointed the finger. Frankly this should make Adobe happy.
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Really? I think people are going to see this more as SJ taking off his glove and slapping Adobe in the face.

What's the message here? Adobe Flash isn't important enough to bundle with new Macs.
 
PsudoPowerPoint said:
In the absence of competitive pressure, profit motive, or pride of ownership what incentive does Oracle have to do a good job with MacOS Java?
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The Apple version was terrible in terms of performance and compatibility. There is no room for it to get worse. Why would Oracle not have pride of ownership?
 
Buy a mac. Download latest version of flash. Win

You get the most up to date version. Not the version that was up to date 3 months ago before that MacBook sat in some store room waiting to be purchased.
 
Xtremehkr said:
Really? I think people are going to see this more as SJ taking off his glove and slapping Adobe in the face.

What's the message here? Adobe Flash isn't important enough to bundle with new Macs.
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No other OS includes Flash, because doing so is a mistake. It prevents Adobe from updating the app and makes Apple responsible for code they can't fix.
Also, it's a fact that OS X is a more stable platform w/o it.
 
Works for me. I don't want Apple updating my Flash installation any more than I want them updating my Photoshop installation. Apple has it's hands full keeping its own software updated while at the same time creating more iOS toys.

While Adobe has its own share of issues for people to gripe about they're pretty good at keeping their software updated.
 
man someone must have really pissed off Steve at Adobe. I mean, yeah flash needs rethinking but to not have it at ALL on macs, either? come on. :confused:
 
I'm not sure all of the people here who don't think Java is important truly understand the situation.

Apple ported Java in the first place because nobody really cared about Java on the Mac. It was a terrible port and Apple knew that if the Mac was to be seen as a machine that could run Java well, they had to do it.

Whether you care or not about Java, its a big deal in many circles. Enterprise and Education are going to look at this very carefully. If Oracle doesn't pick up development or the development sucks, they will just drop the Mac as a viable Java platform.

As a CS Professor, we teach Java and many students have MBPs for their work. This will have to change if Java stagnates on the Mac.

Businesses that have Java apps, web sites with Java, or develop for others using Java, will also have to abandon the Mac for platforms that are supported.

I think those of us who are categorized as 'whining' about Java see this as a move by Apple from a consumer/professional platform to just a consumer based platform. Apple has done very well as a consumer electronics company but some of us actually liked developing with Apple hardware. Its a shame...

Lastly, the arguments about Flash and Java are not even in the same universe. Flash is an add-on commodity. I can download and install it. I can still develop Flash content as installation has just changed locations.

With the end of Apple's development of Java, there is currently no other source. Unless I missed a Java announcement where Oracle has stated they are going to step up to the plate, I don't see a lot of options here.
 
Stella said:
...
cmaier said:
Good. No flash, no Java. Now I'm happy.
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A typical fan boy response - "if I don't need it or want it - then one no else should".
...
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I think you may have mis-read his post... the poster is just saying he's happy and good with it and not proposing that it should be good for everyone else.

For myself, I could care less since, updates to these two technologies are so frequently that I end up updating them myself any way.

P.
 
skeep5 said:
man someone must have really pissed off Steve at Adobe. I mean, yeah flash needs rethinking but to not have it at ALL on macs, either? come on. :confused:
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Oh geez. You didn't even read it, did you? Does it hurt your back when you duck to avoid the point?

NOBODY is stopping Flash on the Mac. Not Steve, not Apple, not Adobe. You will install a fresh copy directly off Adobe, exactly like you already (should) do.
 
skeep5 said:
man someone must have really pissed off Steve at Adobe. I mean, yeah flash needs rethinking but to not have it at ALL on macs, either? come on. :confused:
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Your statement isn't even remotely true. I think your confused because you didn't read the article.
 
Apple doesn't package silverlight with macs, yet people who need have no problem getting it installed. I am sure there are lots of netflix users on macs that have been fine on there own installing stuff. Web developers should never assume that a user will have a plugin installed. They should check and respond with a friendly message explaining what the user needs to use their site. They could also decide to display different content that doesn't require a plugin. I commend apple for not pushing flash down my throat.
 
MonkeyET said:
I have to say I support this decision. I installed Click-to-flash on my MBP in July and I cannot remember clicking on any of the boxes once. I can assume that without flash installed, the computers would respond the same way?

My MBP doesn't miss it, maybe I should take the same treatment with my iMac.
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I agree. Only one or twice did I click the box so I could access a band's website.
 
what Pentad said

As an educator I depend on my students having Java installed on their personal computers. For much of what I do, there is no feasible alternative to Java. So my preference would be for all computer manufacturers to ship machines with Java installed. Otherwise it's an additional step for my students--a step that some of them will be unable or unwilling to take (sad to say).
 
err404 said:
Your statement isn't even remotely true. I think your confused because you didn't read the article.
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Amen to that. I honestly cannot fathom what is so difficult to grasp about this. No more insecure, obsolete versions sticking around or overwriting newer ones. Install it shiny and new off Adobe's site like you already do. Such a non-issue.

dvs said:
As an educator I depend on my students having Java installed on their personal computers. For much of what I do, there is no feasible alternative to Java. So my preference would be for all computer manufacturers to ship machines with Java installed. Otherwise it's an additional step for my students--a step that some of them will be unable or unwilling to take (sad to say).
Click to expand...

If your students are incapable of driving their own computers, then they have bigger problems than installing Flash. By your logic, computer manufacturs need to contact you, singularly and specifically, for a list of everything your course requires, sign agreements with each other and with all the other software vendors whose products they will be including for re-distribution rights, and ship that on any and all computers that your students might buy.

Developers are responsible for their own products, not each others. Your students are responsible for their own computers. If they can't figure it out, then they can pay a support person to help them. Or ask their 7 year old son.
 
Pentad said:
Apple ported Java in the first place because nobody really cared about Java on the Mac. It was a terrible port and Apple knew that if the Mac was to be seen as a machine that could run Java well, they had to do it.
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I understand your point about the history, but Apple has a significantly larger market share today then when this decision was made.
Still, before we start running around saying the sky is falling, we should wait to see what Oracle has to say.
 
Good move - no OS should come pre-installed with 3rd Party Software. Just because the manufacture thinks you need it - they don't know what I want or need. I remember back in my Windows days that I spend endless hours uninstalling tons of bloatware from my machine - many reboots later I had a somewhat clean machine (often there were enough left overs from bad uninstallers). Luckily this was not as bad on the MacOS, the only thing that I do when getting a new machine is that I install a flash blocker (which from now on I no longer have to do). Java never bothered me, but from recent articles it looks like it is a potential security problem - so if I don't need it, I prefer not to have it on my machine.

The end user should install what they need, what they don't need shouldn't be installed on the machine. Need Flash: go and install it, Need Java: go and install it. No need to force feed it to everyone.
 
dvs said:
As an educator I depend on my students having Java installed on their personal computers. For much of what I do, there is no feasible alternative to Java. So my preference would be for all computer manufacturers to ship machines with Java installed. Otherwise it's an additional step for my students--a step that some of them will be unable or unwilling to take (sad to say).
Click to expand...

Umm. You realize that 90% of machines (Windows) do NOT ship with Java installed...
 
seanonymous said:
As a Flash developer, I'm thrilled about this. Every time Apple pushes out a security update, they include the latest (or sometimes almost latest) version of the Flash Player. This overwrites the Flash Debug Player, and I have to and reinstall it. It's annoying that the installer script can't detect the debug player like Adobe's does.

(BTW, I do not make banner ads or Facebook games - I only use Flash for good, not evil.)
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I don't think you know what that means. You are not a developer. You are a flash designer/code monkey. Real developer use real languages like C/C++, Java, Python, Objective-C and C#. Saying that you are developer is as silly as saying that someone who creates HTML webpages and Javascript code is a developer.

I was a "web" developer for a time but I also wrote all of the code behind on the server side as well. You just write flashy interfaces for the web that require broadband to use them.

Real devs who are targeting the web emit industry "STANDARD" HTML, Javascript and/or XML. They do not do FLASH, Silverlight or any other proprietary crap.
 
dvs said:
As an educator I depend on my students having Java installed on their personal computers. For much of what I do, there is no feasible alternative to Java. So my preference would be for all computer manufacturers to ship machines with Java installed. Otherwise it's an additional step for my students--a step that some of them will be unable or unwilling to take (sad to say).
Click to expand...

Maybe you should first start teaching your students some computer basics. Seems they don't know anything about it. Maybe you can use the first lesson to explain them what the internet is, how to start a web browser and how to find the downloads they need. The second lesson you can explain them how to double click the installers to install it. That might be very valuable lessons for your students since they can't expect that every manufacture installs every program for them that they might need in their life.

Seriously ... if they can't figure out how to download and install something, they probably shouldn't learn programming. If they are just 'unwilling' to do - well, they will have much bigger problems in their life ahead.
 
0815 said:
Maybe you should first start teaching your students some computer basics.
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If it's a secondary or tertiary institution, there is most likely already an institution policy regarding minimum expectations of computer literacy, which goes along with the quite standard expectation that they have access to their own computer (or buy one or whatever, and often includes a recommended brand or specification).

Any institution that expects students to have a computer, but does NOT have an expectation that they can use it is both foolish and wasting its time (and the student's, and their money).
 
After installing Click-To-Flash, I really only use flash on Youtube.


Java on the other hand....

EDIT:
aristotle said:
I don't think you know what that means. You are not a developer. You are a flash designer/code monkey. Real developer use real languages like C/C++, Java, Python, Objective-C and C#. Saying that you are developer is as silly as saying that someone who creates HTML webpages and Javascript code is a developer.
Click to expand...

Someone has their panties in a bunch XD
 
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