Apple to Require COVID Testing for Employees Starting Next Month, Still No Vaccine Mandate

[siddavis]

How can we ever get long term data if new variants keep popping up specifically from unvaccinated transmission of COVID? You have created an endless loop of infection->treatment->reinfection in your logic and unfortunately pulled every human into it with you. I'm not attacking you personally, but rather your thought process.

The natural progression of viral pandemics has been that variants develop, but typically more transmissible and less deadly. Here, we have injected (pun intended) a vaccine right in the middle of the peak of the alpha spread and and are witnessing the impact of a vaccine on the variants. Can you tell us based on historical precedent what the impact of a vaccine will have on variants that develop? Will they be more/less transmissible and more/less deadly? In line with historical viral pandemics?

I'm also mostly challenging your "..specifically from unvaccinated transmission of COVID.." statement. If the transmission is unique to the unvaxed, then why do I have this face diaper on as a fully vaccinated person?

 

[jimbobb24]

Doing weekly testing on people who have survived CV19 is likely to mean every positive is a false positive as they have a 1% rate of reinfection and this is mostly in the elderly and immune compromised.

This would be true, but to a lesser extent, for vaccinated people as well.

Otherwise this appears to another thread of sociopaths demonstrating their willingness to “other” people over a vaccine for a disease that’s harmless in the majority of people and still think they are “good guys” despite their complete loss of moral compass or proportion. But hey - that’s the internet.

 

[Xtir]

Far from settled.
We are missing a lot of key data points.
A lot of the actions are politically driven.
We have nowhere enough long term data.

That’s just some of what is missing.

Please be concrete, and motivate by asking questions opposite your opinion/hypothesis;
- What is missing? Why is it missing? Why are still people believing the science you are not?
- What actions are politically driven? And why? By whom?
- How long would be good enough for you? A year, a lifetime, never?

Who do you trust, if anyone, and why?

enrich your mind, change mine if you can..

You have your freedom, do not limit mine.. without proper motivation

 

[Xtir]

Doing weekly testing on people who have survived CV19 is likely to mean every positive is a false positive as they have a 1% rate of reinfection and this is mostly in the elderly and immune compromised.

This would be true, but to a lesser extent, for vaccinated people as well.

source?

 

[Maconplasma]

Oh boy!

Looks like a safe approach politically but really a risky one if you weigh in the health risks considering that more than 40% people are still not fully vaccinated in CA and their are 12,000 new cases each day.

Not much risk considering employees will be getting tested every week plus customers are required to wear masks inside the stores.

 

[siddavis]

People without COVID not able to get care are far and few between. We get anecdotal evidence of this “people not able to get care” through the media and everyone believes it’s a huge problem.

And of course everyone ignores the fact that RSV is spiking unseasonably because we locked kids in the closet for over a year.

 

[siddavis]

Rationed care isn't a media invention.

Right, it is a socialism invention.
The media are simply happy to project it in this case.

 

[Xtir]

The natural progression of viral pandemics has been that variants develop, but typically more transmissible and less deadly. Here, we have injected (pun intended) a vaccine right in the middle of the peak of the alpha spread and and are witnessing the impact of a vaccine on the variants. Can you tell us based on historical precedent what the impact of a vaccine will have on variants that develop? Will they be more/less transmissible and more/less deadly? In line with historical viral pandemics?

read this: history of vaccination

I'm also mostly challenging your "..specifically from unvaccinated transmission of COVID.." statement. If the transmission is unique to the unvaxed, then why do I have this face diaper on as a fully vaccinated person?

read this: face diaper and fully vaccinated

stick to the facts, they (pun intended) are better than (spreading) rumors..

 

[jimbobb24]

source?

Math and how you calculate pre-test probabilities and likelihood functions. Reinfection rate is around 1% based on multiple studies. Vaccination breakthrough is 10-20% also making it not useful for them.

 

[blueflame]

And of course everyone ignores the fact that RSV is spiking unseasonably because we locked kids in the closet for over a year.

lets not go there. what's next is a new mandate mRNA vaccine for that. soon to be required.then the flue, then the farts. where is the mandate for fatties(inc me) to stop eating cheeseburgers? stop smoking? those people are clogging up hospital beds and shouldn't be allowed. how about HIV? its preventable.

plain and simple. enough with the mandates. enough with the requirements. we are a free people. MOST specifically, for your own personal body.

I hear the saying along the line of your freedom end when it affects me. well no. my freedom NEVER ends with my body. if you are afraid... stay home.

I applaud apple for treating people as individuals and not a one size fits all. THAT is accepting of differences. applause.

if you are afraid of living life, stay home and quarantine yourself. life goes on, you are welcome to protect yourself from the scary world and its people and viruses. like we all have forever.

vax and unvax are mutating and spreading the same. everyone should just be tested weekly. period, fair and safer, since the vaxed are spreading covid around willy nilly.

 

[Xtir]

Right, is a socialism invention.
The media are simply happy to project it in this case.

Opinion? or fact? then substantiate please..

 

[jimbobb24]

Employers, schools, show runners... businesses generally want these vaccination requirements. And rightfully so.

Unvaccinated people are nothing but a legal liability. American Airlines doesn't want a $10 million lawsuit because someone lost their beloved uncle and their family of lawyers contact-traced it back to a cluster of sick people on their flight.

Right now it's "vaccine or lots of testing." Soon enough it's "vaccine or you don't work here."

You're not allowed to work in an Apple store naked because you dislike the uniforms... this is that.

Has there ever been a successful lawsuit for someone getting an airborne virus? How would you establish cause?

This is nonsense hysteria. There will never be a successful lawsuit because you “caught CV19” somewhere.

EDIT: Someone correctly pointed out that there are lawsuits for viruses where transmission can easily be established so I clarified by adding “airborne”

 

[JMacHack]

This whole pandemic has just been a giant parade of idiocy from one trend to another:
1. Quarantine to stop the spread
“No, I can’t live without going to bars and parties!”
2. Mask so you don’t spread as much
“No, I don’t want to.”

And now people are refusing a free vaccine because they heard a livestock dewormer helps? I personally know farmers who are having trouble getting dewormer for their livestock because people decided that Joe Rogan knows more than their local doctor.

To clarify: I don’t believe in a “get a vaccine or go to jail” situation. But healthcare workers, kids going to school and such, who are already required to get vaccines for various other diseases should be required to be vaccinated.

The rationing of healthcare wouldn’t have happened if people had followed the guidelines in the first place.

 

[siddavis]

I have to wonder if COVID isnt some clever plan to turn countrymen against each other. The prevailing mainstream media attitude is that you must bow the knee to the sun-god Corona. Unroll your sleeve and accept your shot. Do not ask how Corona kills. Do not ask where it came from. Do not expose your face/identity to others. And certainly do not ask what you can do to lessen symptoms or expedite recovery. All naysayers will be shouted down on sight.

I don't think it is some master plan as in it was created to turn people against each other. The virus and the impacts of it are real. But so are the reactions of the power hungry to exploit it.

One thing I'd point out: In the first 8 months of the pandemic during last executive administration in the US, we saw multiple vaccines developed and receive EUA. Tell me, in the first 8 months of the new administration, what testing, mitigation, therapeutics, or whatever have been even explored to help ease the impact? In particular, I only see extreme amounts of downplaying anything that even could be a potential therapeutic. WHY???!!!

 

[McG2k1]

good. No mandate is the way to go. ‘The vaccine doesn’t work so everyone should be forced to get it’ doesn’t sit well with most.

 

[Xtir]

Math and how you calculate pre-test probabilities and likelihood functions. Reinfection rate is around 1% based on multiple studies. Vaccination breakthrough is 80-90% also making it not useful for them.

Generalisms are not getting you there. Never read an article of you @jimbobb24 so you're probably not an expert.
Science does not walk without sources.

Here are some of mine (reinfection) and (breakthrough)

 

[jimbobb24]

Tactically, to employers it could be about protecting themselves financially. Much like how Delta announced they'd just raise insurance costs for non-vaccinated people. It's still not fair for people who had recovered from COVID, as there are reports that antibodies from a recovered patient is similar to those with the vaccine. I guess it's all down to how one interprets it, along with how it's documented.

Side note: Personally, I'm vaccinated, since I'm not 100% certain I had COVID. I had a seriously f'd up illness that has the signatures of COVID back in Feb, but I was never 100% certain it was, so I got vaxxed anyway. I'm not one to tell others what they do, much like how I don't expect anyone to be bothered that I'm still wearing a mask when in an enclosed area.

”Reports that antibodies from a recovered patient is similar to those with vaccine”

Antibodies dont mean anything when you have actual measures of reinfection. We now have them. Survivors do the best...not close. They dont transmit the virus, they have the lowest risk of getting the disease or hospitalization. This used to be unknown...its not anymore.

Splitting the country into vaccinated and unvaccinated is dumb. We need to focus on immune (survivors and vaccinated) and unimmune. Other countries are already thinking that way...the US is backwards.

 

[Xtir]

Has there ever been a successful lawsuit for someone getting a virus? How would you establish cause?

This is nonsense hysteria. There will never be a successful lawsuit because you “caught CV19” somewhere.

Remember aids? Stick to the facts, read this: liability

 

[siddavis]

Nobody ever claims a vaccine makes you immune to Covid.

Except that's the very definition of vaccine - A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.

Oh wait, that was the CDC's definition before COVID. Follow the science...

 

[jimbobb24]

Healthcare workers who won't get vaccinated shouldn't be healthcare workers in the first place.

And we do know how it kills. And everyone has asked where it came from, we just don't know right now. And nobody cares about your face/identity, we just don't want your infection. And if you ask what can lessen symptoms and expedite recovery, the answer will be monoclonal antibodies, not apple-flavored horse paste.

What’s the rate of transmission from health care workers to pts? The rate of transmission from pts to healthcare workers was 30%. Going the other way we dont have good data but appears extremely rare. So, all those heroes who took a 30% chance to get CV19 now shouldnt work with patients if they dont want to take the vaccine.

We live in clown world.

 

[Xtir]

We need to focus on immune (survivors and vaccinated) and unimmune.

Now you're talking sense.. any idea how to arrange this? (besides getting infected or vaccinated)

 

[jimbobb24]

Remember aids? Stick to the facts, read this: liability

Ok. So you think airborne illnesses are like STDs and blood borne transmission? You should read more.

 

[jimbobb24]

No, that’s not at all what the evidence shows. The evidence shows that immunity acquired by getting ill is not long-lasting, and, in particular, is not very useful against the delta variant.

Please cite a source that shows that. Thats not what the UK, Israel, or Italy published reports show on reinfection rates. In those reports it was longer lasting than vaccines, better against delta (reinfection rate was stable).

 

[Will do good]

Umm NO
Why do folks not get it, The science is not settled. Yes it seems good and seems the risk is small for side effects but TIME will tell. It should be a personal choice nothing more get the vax don't get the vax its not anyone but the individuals choice and info!!!

Yes it's a personal choice, but it should also carry consequence. If they get sick from COVID they should pay extra for treatments or get in back or line to treat those got the shot already. Consequence.

 

[Xtir]

Healthcare workers who won't get vaccinated shouldn't be healthcare workers in the first place.

And we do know how it kills. And everyone has asked where it came from, we just don't know right now. And nobody cares about your face/identity, we just don't want your infection. And if you ask what can lessen symptoms and expedite recovery, the answer will be monoclonal antibodies, not apple-flavored horse paste.

Healthcare workers have every right you have, including not to be vaccinated, which in turn can have consequences.

You have the right when having (severe) symptoms not to come to the hospital. Healthcare workers do not have the right to refuse treating you if you decide to come anyway, even if you chose not to be vaccinated..

BTW not to much data about your monoclonal antibodies statement (pubmed)