Motorola Semiconductors is a big part of their company. Without it what would they have? Cell phones? I hear they don't even make those, they outsource and print their name on it. Although that would be money better spent than on UMG.
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Apple to sue Motorola?
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Motorola Semiconductors is a big part of their company. Without it what would they have? Cell phones? I hear they don't even make those, they outsource and print their name on it. Although that would be money better spent than on UMG.
haven't read any of the posts. so, sorry if this has already been mentioned:
how many times over the course of 7 years can two companies gets P.O.'d at one another when it comes to products?
I'm guessing it all started when motorola lost a billion on their mac clones...
how many times over the course of 7 years can two companies gets P.O.'d at one another when it comes to products?
I'm guessing it all started when motorola lost a billion on their mac clones...
No man, it's like girls at the University of Miami. You saw her freshman year and she was thin. But two or three years later after many drunken stupors at the tavern and she's gained 25 lbs and yet is still wearing the same size clothes she was Freshmen Year. Now THAT is the story of the G4.
man, i saw this news article a few hours ago and thought, "score!"
i hope apple can recoup some of the losses motorola has caused them. that'll be a really interesting suit to follow if it ever turns into anything.
BTW navy intel, love the new 'tar.
i hope apple can recoup some of the losses motorola has caused them. that'll be a really interesting suit to follow if it ever turns into anything.
BTW navy intel, love the new 'tar.
Actually they did get rid of a big chunk of their semiconductors, mostly the analog/op amps stuff and the logic chips. That was spun off to OnSemi. Most of motorola's current semiconductors seem to be for cell phone stuff.
I don't know about the merits of the case but certainly this has to be one of the best "feel good" actions I've heard of in a while.
In the Apple vs Microsoft lawsuit Apple came away with a decent settlement. Microsoft went along because in the long run it would have hurt them.
For Apple vs Motorola there are some interesting things Apple could get out of a settlement. Motorola does make cell phones. Maybe Apple will give Motorola the design and tell them to make an Apple branded phone?
Maybe Apple just wants cash for acquisitions.
Maybe Motorola has something else Apple wants.
I think they should sue and sue them good. Market share loss arguments and more will be brought up.
Motorola can't stop giving Apple CPUs under existing contract in retaliation for the law suit. Nvidia sued Microsoft over the supply of video boards for the Xbox but did not stop delivering. That is because in those contracts usually is written treble damage clause for failure to deliver what you can deliver. Not only that but probably penalty clauses requiring payment for production line downtime and more.
For Apple vs Motorola there are some interesting things Apple could get out of a settlement. Motorola does make cell phones. Maybe Apple will give Motorola the design and tell them to make an Apple branded phone?
Maybe Apple just wants cash for acquisitions.
Maybe Motorola has something else Apple wants.
I think they should sue and sue them good. Market share loss arguments and more will be brought up.
Motorola can't stop giving Apple CPUs under existing contract in retaliation for the law suit. Nvidia sued Microsoft over the supply of video boards for the Xbox but did not stop delivering. That is because in those contracts usually is written treble damage clause for failure to deliver what you can deliver. Not only that but probably penalty clauses requiring payment for production line downtime and more.
You know, I don't think the reason Apple would wait until after the 970s arrive is being afraid of Motorola's retaliation.
The reason why I think Apple has to wait is that if they do it now, basically they have to say in public and on the record that their machines are not competitive and it is Motorola's fault. Steve Jobs cannot go into court and say "PowerMac G4s suck and it is because Motorola killed the G5" if he doesn't have anything better to sell.
Basically he would be telling potential customers his stuff is overpriced and underpowered. That is why Apple has to wait until the 970 arrives. They need non-Motorola processors in their top of the line stuff to not look like dorks.
As someone that works in the networking, mobile/wireless, and computing industries, I think this is great. Even just the threat of it. Motorola is one of the worst, least innovative, last-to-bat comapnies in the entire industry. Their processors are totally lackluster, zero developments on the processor front (embedded or not), and their mobile technology (including phones) are the biggest pieces of junk. Not to mention that all their stuff is cobbled together from preexisting technology. Like Dell - they think they're a computer COMPANY, but they're really more of a big RESELLER/REBRANDER.
The AIM alliance is, in fact, dead. It died several years ago with Motorola decided to go after AltiVec and IBM decided to go after copper processors.
Re: Re: Re: Disloyalty
While not out of the realm of possibility, this is doubtful. IBM is one of the world's largest corporations and also one of the most innovative. Big Blue will continue to develop their POWER processors - and it really doesn't take them much to scale them down and bring them to desktops.
The 970 may already be replaced as early as next year, with a Power5 derivative possibly available by Q3 2004 (August-September). A next-gen Power chip may be released by 2005 - meaning a derivative could be out within a year. I like Apple's chances with IBM - and I've thought for years that IBM was the best processor manufacturer in the world- and they've got tons more patented tech to match.
While not out of the realm of possibility, this is doubtful. IBM is one of the world's largest corporations and also one of the most innovative. Big Blue will continue to develop their POWER processors - and it really doesn't take them much to scale them down and bring them to desktops.
The 970 may already be replaced as early as next year, with a Power5 derivative possibly available by Q3 2004 (August-September). A next-gen Power chip may be released by 2005 - meaning a derivative could be out within a year. I like Apple's chances with IBM - and I've thought for years that IBM was the best processor manufacturer in the world- and they've got tons more patented tech to match.
I wonder if this counts as evidence to those who claim that there never was a G5, there never were any prototype G5 Macs, and that Motorola didn't stop developing a chip that was destined to go into our beloved Macs... After all, this doesn't seem to be rehashing the rumor from The Register...
What I think the "Register" rumour was....
In some ways, I question the possible grounds for this suit.
I can't really believe that Motorola would enter into a contract with specific production dates, performance goals, etc. The silicon business is full of uncertainty about dates, performance, and the other "facts" in this story.
Would Motorola sign a contract promising things when it knew that it might not be able to meet them? I would expect the contract to be full of "unforeseen circumstances" and similar clauses that would make it difficult for Apple's lawyers.
As far as "ceasing production", I would also expect the contract to define "production" as "announced, in the price book, and shipping" or something similar. Giving Apple a few prototype chips for testing (if that actually happened) would not count - otherwise Moto would be foolish to give Apple samples before it entered full production.
My guess (no proof, just speculation) is that the Register's infamous "G5" story was based on a hand-built Apple prototype that used a POWER4 chip. The performance numbers quoted by the Register are close enough to POWER4, and Apple could easily have adapted an IBM mobo to use as testing vehicle for portable (or even 64-bit) OS X - or just used it as a "message" to Motorola. It could even have been a proof-of-concept for a PPC970 system.
There are so many rumours about OS X running on Intel, running on Alphas, etc that it doesn't seem too far out for Apple to have tested it on small IBM POWER4 systems....
It'll be "evidence" when Apple introduces it in court!
In some ways, I question the possible grounds for this suit.
I can't really believe that Motorola would enter into a contract with specific production dates, performance goals, etc. The silicon business is full of uncertainty about dates, performance, and the other "facts" in this story.
Would Motorola sign a contract promising things when it knew that it might not be able to meet them? I would expect the contract to be full of "unforeseen circumstances" and similar clauses that would make it difficult for Apple's lawyers.
As far as "ceasing production", I would also expect the contract to define "production" as "announced, in the price book, and shipping" or something similar. Giving Apple a few prototype chips for testing (if that actually happened) would not count - otherwise Moto would be foolish to give Apple samples before it entered full production.
My guess (no proof, just speculation) is that the Register's infamous "G5" story was based on a hand-built Apple prototype that used a POWER4 chip. The performance numbers quoted by the Register are close enough to POWER4, and Apple could easily have adapted an IBM mobo to use as testing vehicle for portable (or even 64-bit) OS X - or just used it as a "message" to Motorola. It could even have been a proof-of-concept for a PPC970 system.
There are so many rumours about OS X running on Intel, running on Alphas, etc that it doesn't seem too far out for Apple to have tested it on small IBM POWER4 systems....
If Apple does sue Moto (big if), Moto can't and won't "retaliate" by cutting off G4 supplies. It's business, not politics!
1) It's money in the bank. No company with financial troubles like Moto is going to be able to look their shareholders in the eye and tell them they passed on a paycheck over a pissing contest with a client.
2) They have a contract already and Moto would risk further lawsuits.
3) It would hurt Moto's other business, sending a message ("if we screw you and you sue us, we'll try to screw you even more by cutting off your supplies" -- companies will start looking for a new partner ASAP rather than end up in Apple's position)
4) Apple would wait to announce a lawsuit until the 970 is ready to go for the sole reason of public confidence in Apple. Someone pointed this out above.
BTW, Navy, I love that UoM analogy! I'm gonna have to remember that one.
1) It's money in the bank. No company with financial troubles like Moto is going to be able to look their shareholders in the eye and tell them they passed on a paycheck over a pissing contest with a client.
2) They have a contract already and Moto would risk further lawsuits.
3) It would hurt Moto's other business, sending a message ("if we screw you and you sue us, we'll try to screw you even more by cutting off your supplies" -- companies will start looking for a new partner ASAP rather than end up in Apple's position)
4) Apple would wait to announce a lawsuit until the 970 is ready to go for the sole reason of public confidence in Apple. Someone pointed this out above.
BTW, Navy, I love that UoM analogy! I'm gonna have to remember that one.
Moto probably gave Apple notice, I think they wanted out for a while. Apple has to make their own "Switch". I would be supprised to see any law suit.
Re: What I think the "Register" rumour was....
This rumor doesn't claim that there were specific production dates. It claims that the contract stated that Moto had to give one year notice before stopping development on the G5, and that they didn't do that. That, instead, they kept providing prototypes, and then, one day, said 'we've decided that this business isn't lucrative enough, so we're terminating the project', or words to that effect...
This rumor doesn't claim that there were specific production dates. It claims that the contract stated that Moto had to give one year notice before stopping development on the G5, and that they didn't do that. That, instead, they kept providing prototypes, and then, one day, said 'we've decided that this business isn't lucrative enough, so we're terminating the project', or words to that effect...
Egad, you can pick any $10 two-button mouse at Staples or Office Depot that uses USB. It works great in Mac OS X. BOTH buttons. Apple only sells machines with one button mice
because it simpler to find every command in the menubar and use drag and drop than having to remember which things deserve a control (or right) click. Jeff Raskin made it a one mouse deal with the invention of the first Mac. Much simpler.
Don't forget the first PC with mice were officially designated mouses by IBM.
I'm still having trouble
As you've written this, it says that Moto was not under contract to produce the G5 - they could say "we're stopping development in a year", futz around for 365 days - yet never produce a G5 for sale.
And back to my point about semiconductor companies and risk - why would Moto contract to produce the G5 at all?
As a case illustrating the risks, think about the PowerPC 620....
Google for ("powerpc 620" failure) and you'll find things like:
http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-217.html
Further in the future are the PowerPC 604 and 620, which will each be a significant step up in performance potential from its predecessor. Raw processing power is likely to be multiplied by three to five in each of these steps, so a Power Macintosh of 1995 or 1996, based on a PowerPC 620, will be quite the screamer.
"Quite the screamer", it was. ;}
As you've written this, it says that Moto was not under contract to produce the G5 - they could say "we're stopping development in a year", futz around for 365 days - yet never produce a G5 for sale.
And back to my point about semiconductor companies and risk - why would Moto contract to produce the G5 at all?
As a case illustrating the risks, think about the PowerPC 620....
Google for ("powerpc 620" failure) and you'll find things like:
http://www.tidbits.com/tb-issues/TidBITS-217.html
Further in the future are the PowerPC 604 and 620, which will each be a significant step up in performance potential from its predecessor. Raw processing power is likely to be multiplied by three to five in each of these steps, so a Power Macintosh of 1995 or 1996, based on a PowerPC 620, will be quite the screamer.
"Quite the screamer", it was. ;}