Apple Trailed Samsung in Holiday Quarter With an Estimated 68.4M iPhones Shipped

[tatsuki]

How does Samsung monetize their phones after sale? I give Apple $25 a month in services and $149 every 2 years in AppleCare so on top of $1249 I spend on a phone every 12 months, I'm giving them $450 extra in addition to any apps I download at 30%

Is Samsung able to do that?

I'm not talking about Apple's majority share of smartphone profits which they clearly lead in

63% gross margin on services. I wonder if you are a stockholder, is Apple fleecing its customers after point of sale a good thing for the consumer or the shareholders? These are services that are very cheap for Apple to run. Wall street loved the margin on the services, but at least we know why, they make billions of dollars off trading Apple stock.

I don't understand why normal people on these forums get so excited about companies like Apple making billions of dollars profit off of them, they are proud when they say how much money they give to the richest company in the world, I find it all rather weird.

 

[timber]

Everybody talks about those charts, Apple, Samsung, Samsung, Apple but for some reason nobody talks about the elephant in the room, and that is Huawei, while the overall market is sliding they are growing like it is 2009.

 

[netdudeuk]

I would like to see net profit as a field in that table.

Why ? So you can see how badly the price gouging is ?

 

[ROGmaster]

How does Samsung monetize their phones after sale? I give Apple $25 a month in services and $149 every 2 years in AppleCare so on top of $1249 I spend on a phone every 12 months, I'm giving them $450 extra in addition to any apps I download at 30%

Is Samsung able to do that?

I'm not talking about Apple's majority share of smartphone profits which they clearly lead in

Well when you pay $1249 every 12 months for your iphone, Samsung also gets around 90-100$ from you.
They also get money from other phone purchases because you know Samsung doesn't make/sell only phones.
Past that Samsung also has their separate services(internet, Theme Store, SamPay, Knox etc.) and wearables/accessories(speakers, headphones, SD Cards, Dex, VR headsets etc.).

Samsung also recently announced this:
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...tphones-may-have-new-1tb-storage-chip-inside/

I would say they are fine.
Samsung is a very diversified company. Smartphones are not their main revenue source.

 

[Ramchi]

Everybody talks about those charts, Apple, Samsung, Samsung, Apple but for some reason nobody talks about the elephant in the room, and that is Huawei, while the overall market is sliding they are growing like it is 2009.

Huawei is another Samsung...

Their mid-rangers and sub-brand Honor making lots of killing no doubts but they also keep increasing prices, luckily in emerging markets, their mobiles appear valuable compared to Apple or Samsung. Thanks to their appetite for higher margin flagships, Huawei, OnePlus, Xiomi all look competitive.

So long Apple increasing prices, Huawei like companies will feel happy about it as customers prefer them as preferred option..

 

[Abazigal]

Are we really still comparing unit sales when the phone compositions are clearly different?

Ask any company out there - would you rather have Samsung’s unit sales or Apple’s iPhone profits?

I don’t think anyone in their sane mind would ever pick the former.

 

[Arbuthnott]

What services exactly? I keep hearing about those "services" and all it is is some creative accounting.

Apple considers Google payment for being the first search engine on the iPhone as "services"
(it's a very high fee, a few Billion USD). Or charging every developer a 30% cut of every app sold -
services!

It's scary how little actual REAL value there is here.

Music sales & streaming, access to immense music library (note competitors such as Spotify for streaming); movies & TV, sales, rental, streaming (too many competitors to name all, but Amazon Prime Video, Netflix are two); Books and Audiobooks (note competitors such as Amazon Kindle and Audible); Cloud services - services such as bulk storage, backup for iPhone/iPad/iPod, secure email/voice/text/MMS/video messaging, online web desktop with office suite and webmail client, “instant” sharing of pictures and files; Apple Pay, including contactless payment and wireless inter-person payment; Find my eDevice service for iPhone/iPad/Mac in case of loss or theft; Find Friends for social contact; services related to maps including location of businesses suggested destinations etc (competitor Google); App Store for OS X & iOS (competitor Google Android; Microsoft); etc

There are some big players, such as Spotify and Netflix whose entire business is only a part of this range of services, so it is difficult to see how you could conclude that these are of no value.

Perhaps you don’t have any Apple devices and are not aware of all this stuff?

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

We live in parallel universes it seems. This week has made me more optimistic about Apple than I have been in a few months. AAPL is up 7% today, new iPads including a mini, AirPods soon, services are growing nicely and should double by 2020, phones that have sharks with lasers on their camera, price drops in emerging markets, a streaming service to be launched mid-April.

I am sorry Tim can't design you a glass that's half full.

tims luck is, that there is no competition to apple at the moment BUT when a company arises, we will see where apple really stands. its like in boxing - you can be the big boy, BUT when there comes a better or equal fighter you look like a silly loser!

AND time is ripe for such a competitor!
[doublepost=1548934278][/doublepost]

I have iPhone X and definitely not bored with it. It is just that is so good I do not need to upgrade it. Can't help it but think this could be the case with a lot of people.

well that says more about you than the state of ios which the guy was referencing ...

 

[bobob]

I think if I was a shareholder it would annoy me that they don't share those figures. As a non shareholder - nope.

I disagree.

If Apple believes that not sharing sales figures gives them a competitive advantage, shareholders have no reason to be annoyed - - it is a strategy that contibutes to the success of Apple and its share prices.

It is the non-shareholders screaming from the cheap seats who are annoyed.

 

[BvizioN]

well that says more about you than the state of ios which the guy was referencing ...

The guy I did quote said people are bored with iPhones. And I said my opinion about the iPhone I am using.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Profits > Overall sales

 

[Reason077]

Apple introduced good new models, but the prices have gotten too high. Apple’s getting greedy!
[doublepost=1548935108][/doublepost]

Profits > Overall sales

In the short term. But declining market share could harm profitability in the future.

 

[alpi123]

I am surprised there hasn't been anyone who has come up with the trope that Samsung sells a bazillion models, while Apple only sells one... oh wait...

So does Huawei... but ApPLe iS DoOmEd hAhA

 

[H2SO4]

I disagree.

If Apple believes that not sharing sales figures gives them a competitive advantage, shareholders have no reason to be annoyed - - it is a strategy that contibutes to the success of Apple and its share prices.

It is the non-shareholders screaming from the cheap seats who are annoyed.

Disagree if you like bobob, it's your prerogative. I said if I was a shareholder I'd want these figures.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple introduced good new models, but the prices have gotten too high. Apple’s getting greedy!
[doublepost=1548935108][/doublepost]

In the short term. But declining market share could harm profitability in the future.

Are we forgetting that Apple’s installed user base continues to grow, even though they didn’t sell as many phones?

 

[MVMNT]

Shipped.

 

[Devinaire]

When you make a phone without a headphone jack and then rip people off with ridiculous prices... this is bound to happen.

Congrats Apple, you're starting to sink.

NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE HEADPHONE JACK!!! We just need Apple to justify a 20% across all product categories while leaving us with the same boring software.

 

[DNichter]

Wow, really impressive considering all of the different phone models, price points, and markets that Samsung operates in. Not to mention buy one get ones at launch for flagship phones. Apple did pretty well all things considered.

 

[Piggie]

Are we forgetting that Apple’s installed user base continues to grow, even though they didn’t sell as many phones?

Do you think their user base is expanding faster than Androids User base?

I have no numbers, but I would guess that Androids user base is growing way faster globally than Apple's

 

[LordVic]

First real quarter of shrinking sales for the whole industry. overall, Apple and Samsung did just "ok". but clear that as the top two dogs, they have some serious competition coming up on their heels.

 

[ROGmaster]

Do you think their user base is expanding faster than Androids User base?

I have no numbers, but I would guess that Androids user base is growing way faster globally than Apple's

Most definitely.
I would also say that 2019 and 2020 will the years of Mid-Range phones while High-end/expensive smartphones will decline/stagnate.

 

[Abazigal]

Do you think their user base is expanding faster than Androids User base?

I have no numbers, but I would guess that Androids user base is growing way faster globally than Apple's

Android’s user base is irrelevant.

What many critics seem to not realise (or conveniently ignore), is that Apple has all but aggregated the best customers (defined as consumers with the highest propensity to spend).

This is why the ios App Store rakes in more revenue than the google play store despite the latter having more users on paper. Not every customer is made equal.

What this means is that Apple will have a far easier time monetising their existing user base (which continues to grow via the burgeoning second-hand iphone market), which means that even through Apple may not sell as many iPhones as before, they can still sell more accessories and services to this group of people.

So while Apple might not earn anything from someone who buys a second-hand iphone online, that someone will still go on to subscribe to iCloud, purchase apps, maybe even get an Apple Watch or AirPods down the line. All this money still flows back to Apple at the end of the day.

People need to start looking beyond superficial figures like simple sales alone. Samsung sells phones of all price ranges, while Apple deals exclusively with the premium market. I don’t understand how anyone can even begin to compare the two.

 

[ftaok]

"I'm not number 1?? You know what? I won't even tell you how many I'm selling"
--Apple

Which is fine, because Apple uses a different metric to keep $core.
[doublepost=1548943633][/doublepost]

I think if I was a shareholder it would annoy me that they don't share those figures. As a non shareholder - nope.

Why would it matter if Apple shared the number or not? If they shared the number, then we would all know the exact number of iPhones sold in the quarter. But they didn't, so we have two firms (IDC and Strategic Analysis) providing estimates of the number of iPhones sold/shipped in the quarter.

What's the difference? People put too much emphasis on the unit number in the first place. Is it important, sure, but it's not the most important piece of data.
[doublepost=1548943744][/doublepost]

Everybody talks about those charts, Apple, Samsung, Samsung, Apple but for some reason nobody talks about the elephant in the room, and that is Huawei, while the overall market is sliding they are growing like it is 2009.

They may be growing unit sales, but are they growing revenue and net income like it's 2009? I'll have to do some research on that.

ADDED

Just did a little bit of half-assed internet research on Huawei.

Read a few financial statements and the 2017 Annual Report.

They breakdown their revenue into 3 sectors: Carrier Business, Enterprise Business, and Consumer Business (ConB). I'm guessing that smartphones fall into the Consumer Business. In 2016, ConB represented 34% of the overall revenue. In 2017, that grew to 39% while overall revenues went from CNY521Bil to CNY603Bil (growth of 15%)

2018 numbers are not available yet, but I saw a report that says they're on target for $109B in revenues, which translates to CNY730Bil. That's a 21% growth from 2017. Very nice!

Looking at smartphones, lest say that ConB increased it overall footprint from 39% to 45%, that would mean that they sold $49B in smartphones (give or take) for the entire year. 200 million units sold in 2018 would equate to an ASP of $245 per phone. Seems pretty good. On par with Samsung and way ahead of the other Chinese vendors (like Xiomi and Oppo). $245 would indicate (IMO) that they're selling mostly mid-range phones, but a decent percentage in the high-end range. Looking at the drop in Apple and Samsung market shares, that passes my eye test that Huawei is clearly at a higher tier than Xiomi, et al.

But back to the original point, I don't think they're growing the financials like it's 2009 (that was crazy growth for everyone back then). They're doing very nicely, but like with all Android vendors (other than Samsung), it's a here today, gone to Maui kind of business.

 

[Baymowe335]

where is the data that shows people are 'not' switching?

Growth in active device base of 100M in 12 months and a 90% iPhone retention rate for iPhone disclosed by Apple during the earnings call.
[doublepost=1548944575][/doublepost]

What services exactly? I keep hearing about those "services" and all it is is some creative accounting.

Apple considers Google payment for being the first search engine on the iPhone as "services"
(it's a very high fee, a few Billion USD). Or charging every developer a 30% cut of every app sold -
services!

It's scary how little actual REAL value there is here.

The reason you keep hearing about them is because they are growing at 20%, make 63% GM, and were just $10.9B in 90 days.

It doesn’t really matter if you think they are services or not. It’s money and it’s growing...fast. I’m not going to defend how and why all the services are counted. It’s irrelevant and you won’t listen anyway.

Apple can make the entire iPhone experience a service eventually. The possibilities are endless.

 

[callea]

Huawei is going to pass Apple this year.

Huawei revenue is 109 billions in all 2018.
Apple revenue is 84 billions in just a quarter...