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Most definitely.
I would also say that 2019 and 2020 will the years of Mid-Range phones while High-end/expensive smartphones will decline/stagnate.

To add to this, there are quite a number of iPhone users that have considered even just “looking” at Android phones for various reasons. I think that alone shows that many are getting uneasy with the current Apple situation.

Whether they switch or not is to be determined.
 
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Do you think their user base is expanding faster than Androids User base?
I have no numbers, but I would guess that Androids user base is growing way faster globally than Apple's
I think Global User Base is almost 75% in Android and iOS is 22% (Dec 17 - Dec 18) ! Though it was way more earlier for Android close to 90%
 

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This isn't so complicated. iPhone users are holding onto their phones longer and are reluctant to update due to many factors - price, nothing dramatically new, still performing well, etc. Once they do decide to upgrade though, they will likely stick with an iPhone because that is what they know and what has served them well for years. No amount of switching platforms (large or small) is going to move the needle all that much.
 
Not surprising, you can get a Galaxy S9 for $549 retail ($500 during the holiday season) which competes with the Apple XS which sells for $999 retail. Simple math.
 
Pricing probably a big factor. Bought a new S9 leading into the holiday quarter on a "Tab" contract. Over the course of 2 years, that tab will cost me $240 for the phone with zero down.

at the same time, the XR was going for upfront $199 on a minimum $120 service plan (2 years x $40 for the tab) = $1,159
the Xs is $459 upfront on a minimum $120 monthly plan.( 2 years x $40) = $1420 CAD

I am not sold that the S9 is some amazing device. Heck, the back already shattered from a 1ft drop. But when you're presented with $240 total, or $1200+ total, it's a losing position if cost is a large factor in the decision making process.

I had hoped that the Xs would be much better than that, but given the price disparity going back into the Apple camp made absolutely no sense this holiday season.
 
Not surprising, you can get a Galaxy S9 for $549 retail ($500 during the holiday season) which competes with the Apple XS which sells for $999 retail. Simple math.

What?? The Galaxy series is (retail) priced identical to the iPhones... Not sure where you are getting your data! The iPhones were also provided holiday pricing by the carriers.
 
Pricing probably a big factor. Bought a new S9 leading into the holiday quarter on a "Tab" contract. Over the course of 2 years, that tab will cost me $240 for the phone with zero down.

at the same time, the XR was going for upfront $199 on a minimum $120 service plan (2 years x $40 for the tab) = $1,159
the Xs is $459 upfront on a minimum $120 monthly plan.( 2 years x $40) = $1420 CAD

I am not sold that the S9 is some amazing device. Heck, the back already shattered from a 1ft drop. But when you're presented with $240 total, or $1200+ total, it's a losing position if cost is a large factor in the decision making process.

I had hoped that the Xs would be much better than that, but given the price disparity going back into the Apple camp made absolutely no sense this holiday season.


LOL, every time your phone breaks, you can just buy a new one and still not hit $1240 for a XS. Get a good otter-box and your phone should survive most drops.

[doublepost=1548948176][/doublepost]
What?? The Galaxy series is (retail) priced identical to the iPhones... Not sure where you are getting your data! The iPhones were also provided holiday pricing by the carriers.

It's $519 unlocked right now on bestbuy.com.
 
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Pricing probably a big factor. Bought a new S9 leading into the holiday quarter on a "Tab" contract. Over the course of 2 years, that tab will cost me $240 for the phone with zero down.

at the same time, the XR was going for upfront $199 on a minimum $120 service plan (2 years x $40 for the tab) = $1,159
the Xs is $459 upfront on a minimum $120 monthly plan.( 2 years x $40) = $1420 CAD

I am not sold that the S9 is some amazing device. Heck, the back already shattered from a 1ft drop. But when you're presented with $240 total, or $1200+ total, it's a losing position if cost is a large factor in the decision making process.

I had hoped that the Xs would be much better than that, but given the price disparity going back into the Apple camp made absolutely no sense this holiday season.

Really not sure who your carrier is... BUT! I am on the annual upgrade program (Xs) and therefore only have to pay ½ for the phone before getting a new one. Also, if you try to sell that S9 a year later, good luck! You will get NOTHING for it! I on the other hand will likely get $600 for it when (if) I wanted to sell after 1 year. Total cost of ownership is the true calculation of VALUE, not price. And besides, the S9 has Android, a FAR inferior operating system then iOS. While iOS may need a 'facelift", the core is 10X what Android is and the ease of operation is far superior, IMHO.
 
It doesn’t really matter if you think they are services or not. It’s money and it’s growing...fast. I’m not going to defend how and why all the services are counted. It’s irrelevant and you won’t listen anyway.

Apple can make the entire iPhone experience a service eventually. The possibilities are endless.


Even if those services are real services, they are linked to the iPhone.
They haven't created anything universal, like Netflix or Dropbox. All they are doing
is locking the iPhone users to their iCloud (awful BTW) or Apple Pay.
No iPhones - no services.
Seeing those as some kind of "bright future" for Apple is very naive.
 
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I just wanted to add this, "And last but not least, everybody wants an iPhone but we need to make it more affordable, and we know this because we go out and talk to people who didn't buy iPhones and the number one reason by far, they all want one, is they just can't afford it." Steve Jobs at the iphone 3G keynote at 3:05

 
LOL, every time your phone breaks, you can just buy a new one and still not hit $1240 for an XS. Get a good otter-box and your phone should survive most drops.

[doublepost=1548948176][/doublepost]

It's $519 unlocked on from bestbuy.com, I can post the link, but I'm not sure if I can post it.

That may be, but that is because nobody is buying the S9, THAT is why they are discounting them. The majority of the Samsung devices sold are NOT the flagship devices, they are the low and mid range devices... I would love to see the breakdown of Samsung S9, S9+ & Note9 device sales vs iPhone Xs and XsMax... You know what? There is no comparison!
 
Oh, yes... BUT, they are #1 in profits, the only area that even matters! But hey... who cares about profits anyway!

I'm not sure if this is /s or not....

Profits generally are not nearly as important as they're being out to be made. it'sall about context.

for an end user, how much profit the company makes as a whole is very very unimportant. All that matters is "was there profit". Why? Because it ensures that the company will likely continue to support that product in the future.

However from an end user perspective, a company making 100b profit, or 20m profit is ultimately not all that important. As long as, as I said above, the company goes on to support those products. For some reason, there's this modern equation that people are doing that higher profit = better company. But this is not correlated. We wouldn't exactly say Nsync/Backstreet boys were the pinacle of musical talent, despite massively succesfull from a financial situation. High profit may also indicate a company is willingly sacrificing on build, quality, and other aspects in order to push for those higher numbers. Samsung for example, given similar ASP makes significantly less profit because their costs tend to be more due to more "gimmicks" thrown at it (which costs more to include)

Market share in particular is an interesting thing to pay attention to "sometimes". it's also not all ti's made out to be, however, depending on the overall market can be a more reasonable borometer than profit of a companies willingness to support long term. But it's also not everything. Market share is relevant when you're looking for external support outside of the initial vendor. For example, if apple started dropping down to 5-10% marketshare? You can expect that developers, 3rd party accesories and other "ecosystem" stuff dissapears as the market may not be seen as big enough to warrant the expenditures (Windows Phone/ BBOS10 are eamples of this)

overall, Profit and Marketshare is a balancing act. Right now, Apple seems content with trading Market Share for profits. whether or not that's a long term winning strategy? Lets just watch and find out. Apple is a wonderful case study to study if you're interested in business administration

But to claim that the only thing that matters is profits is shortsited and bad business leadership
 
Even if those services are real services, they are linked to the iPhone.
They haven't created anything universal, like Netflix or Dropbox. All they are doing
is locking the iPhone users to their iCloud (awful BTW) or Apple Pay.
No iPhones - no services.
Seeing those as some kind of "bright future" for Apple is very naive.

Hmmmm, lets see... Apple Music for Android... There is a Start.... Samsung & LG TV's with built in iTunes... Apple is definitely integrating with other manufacturers... You need to keep up!
 
Even if those services are real services, they are linked to the iPhone.
They haven't created anything universal, like Netflix or Dropbox. All they are doing
is locking the iPhone users to their iCloud (awful BTW) or Apple Pay.
No iPhones - no services.
Seeing those as some kind of "bright future" for Apple is very naive.
Not entirely accurate.

Apple Music is cross platform.

iCloud is available for Mac and Windows.

iTunes is cross platform (although the impact of iTunes is likely minimal at this point).

The upcoming TV service will almost assuredly be cross platform.
 
Really not sure who your carrier is... BUT! I am on the annual upgrade program (Xs) and therefore only have to pay ½ for the phone before getting a new one. Also, if you try to sell that S9 a year later, good luck! You will get NOTHING for it! I on the other hand will likely get $600 for it when (if) I wanted to sell after 1 year. Total cost of ownership is the true calculation of VALUE, not price. And besides, the S9 has Android, a FAR inferior operating system then iOS. While iOS may need a 'facelift", the core is 10X what Android is and the ease of operation is far superior, IMHO.

no anuall upgrade plan here in Canada.

I don't tend to factor in resell of devices when i buy a device. I expect to either run the thing into the ground, or give it away free to family when i'm done.

the rest of your post is nonsense as you're trying to attribute your own subjective opinion as fact. a lot of nonsense in your post. True value of ownership is specific to the individual and their own mitigating factors on what they deem of value. I am never going to tell you that you can't find sufficient value in the current pricing, but to tell me what my value should be is just obsurd.

my $240 S9 might be worth $0 in 2 years when i go to replace it (if i last that long with it). But it still only cost me $240. your Xs might be worth $600 on resell, but still cost you $399 ($999 - $600) for that same 2 year period of time. Still not really helping your point.
 
I think if I was a shareholder it would annoy me that they don't share those figures. As a non shareholder - nope.
I disagree.

If Apple believes that not sharing sales figures gives them a competitive advantage, shareholders have no reason to be annoyed - - it is a strategy that contibutes to the success of Apple and its share prices.

It is the non-shareholders screaming from the cheap seats who are annoyed.
Disagree if you like bobob, it's your prerogative. I said if I was a shareholder I'd want these figures.
So you're actually saying you're a non-shareholder then?
 
LOL, every time your phone breaks, you can just buy a new one and still not hit $1240 for a XS. Get a good otter-box and your phone should survive most drops.

I know. i know. put a case on it. I should have learned after breaking my LAST phone the same way

I just, HATE cases. I like the clean naked look of devices cause look/feel is a massive selling point for me...

But I relented and have a case on it now.
 
When you make a phone without a headphone jack and then rip people off with ridiculous prices... this is bound to happen.

Congrats Apple, you're starting to sink.

For your information Samesung's revenue from mobile division is down by more than 20%.
By your blind hate, you confirmed Samesung can fool people with lies of shipping phones and given them away for free...

where as Apple is able to maintain their margins with cutting edge features like FaceID, AirPods which cannot be copied by competitors even after a year... yes overall market is maturing so iPhones are not selling like past but it is good that no other vendor can come close to Apple now as the standard is set.
 
What?? The Galaxy series is (retail) priced identical to the iPhones... Not sure where you are getting your data! The iPhones were also provided holiday pricing by the carriers.

This is also full incorrect:

S9 MSRP: $720
S9+ MSRP: $840
Note 9 MSRP: $999

iPhone Xr MSRP: $749
iPhone Xs MSRP: $999
iPhone Xs+ MSRP: $1,149


Might want to do your own fact checking before you call out others.
 
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Their margin reports tell me that already. :eek:

Mind you, since I find value in the products and services I purchase from them, I do not feel ripped-off.

Remember margin reports are gross margin. Always look at net margins. Gross is interesting but ultimately meaningless without comparing it to net margins.

Additionally, per the conference call, gross margins for products were 33.4% and 62.8% for services (Source). Net margins were about 23.7% (Source), which is higher than they've been for a few years (they are typically higher at end of calendar years) but are certainly not Apple's highest net margins.

Let's make some assumptions. Gross margins were 38% (Source). So gross - net = 14.3%. With product margins of 33.4%, assuming a similar gross - net adjustment, this puts product net margins at 19.1%. Assuming a company is not allowed to make a profit, that means iPhones and other products are "overpriced" by 19.1% (although we really have to extend net margins out over years to smooth out random effects). Of course, that's assuming Apple cannot make any profit. If we say Apple can make a 5% profit (allows them to earn some additional money for future spending - but this would greatly and relatively reduce their future cash reserves), we can reduce Apple's product prices by 14.1%. Apple could sell their Xs for $859 and the Xr for $644.25. The base 15" MacBook Pro could sell for $2037. All things being equal, Apple would lose money on 15" MacBook Pros sold for < $1940.79 and Xs phones sold for < $ 808.19. The real loss point is higher though because margins are lower on new products and higher on old ones (usually).

Are those reasonable prices? I'd wager people would still complain at the prices. Of course, Apple would likely sell more if prices were lower (most of the time this is true) and economies of scale could factor in but this is not easy to predict. Well, maybe products could be sold for less if Apple stopped "wasting" money on services (including upcoming ones) but those services (which have higher margins - that's almost always true - services have higher margins than products) will likely encourage people to buy Apple products so even if you don't like the services, they can have positive effects on products.
 
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I'm not sure if this is /s or not....

Profits generally are not nearly as important as they're being out to be made. it'sall about context.

for an end user, how much profit the company makes as a whole is very very unimportant. All that matters is "was there profit". Why? Because it ensures that the company will likely continue to support that product in the future.

However from an end user perspective, a company making 100b profit, or 20m profit is ultimately not all that important. As long as, as I said above, the company goes on to support those products. For some reason, there's this modern equation that people are doing that higher profit = better company. But this is not correlated. We wouldn't exactly say Nsync/Backstreet boys were the pinacle of musical talent, despite massively succesfull from a financial situation. High profit may also indicate a company is willingly sacrificing on build, quality, and other aspects in order to push for those higher numbers. Samsung for example, given similar ASP makes significantly less profit because their costs tend to be more due to more "gimmicks" thrown at it (which costs more to include)

Market share in particular is an interesting thing to pay attention to "sometimes". it's also not all ti's made out to be, however, depending on the overall market can be a more reasonable borometer than profit of a companies willingness to support long term. But it's also not everything. Market share is relevant when you're looking for external support outside of the initial vendor. For example, if apple started dropping down to 5-10% marketshare? You can expect that developers, 3rd party accesories and other "ecosystem" stuff dissapears as the market may not be seen as big enough to warrant the expenditures (Windows Phone/ BBOS10 are eamples of this)

overall, Profit and Marketshare is a balancing act. Right now, Apple seems content with trading Market Share for profits. whether or not that's a long term winning strategy? Lets just watch and find out. Apple is a wonderful case study to study if you're interested in business administration

But to claim that the only thing that matters is profits is shortsited and bad business leadership
Good post. I agree with much of what you say here.

In regards to profits, it is important, especially as these companies get larger and larger.

A company like Apple will not dedicate resource to a project or product if it doesn't think it will generate enough profit to matter. Product like the mythical iPhoneSE2 would likely make a profit, however, the market is likely to be so small as to not warrant any attention from Apple, much to the dismay of consumers that want a smaller iPhone.

If a product or service does not project to make acceptable profits, Apple won't do it. Unless there are other strategic reasons other than profit that fall into the win column for a particular product.

Look at the MacPro (and the Mac in general) and Pro software. Too small of a market for Apple to care about, so they're letting it whither on the vine.

Switching topics. About marketshare. I agree, it's important, but mostly in the context of growing (or at least maintaining) an active user base. While not a good sign, a shrinking market share isn't necessarily a big deal ... as long as some of these reasons are true.

1. Folks that aren't buying iPhones are just holding onto their current iPhones. This is neutral to the active user base.
2. iPhone unit sales are increasing, just not as much as the overall market. This would imply a growing user base ... also, it's now shown that iPhone sales have dropped this last quarter.
3. Folks are actively switching from Android to iPhone at the same rate that iPhone users are holding off on upgrading. This would be neutral for increasing market share, but positive for growing the base.

One last point. Market share is very fickle because it's generally measured on a quarter-by-quarter basis. Sometimes, it's measured on a month-to-month basis. So a drop in market share this quarter can easily be offset by a growth in market share the following quarter. Active user base takes much longer to affect.
 
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