apple trying to fool us -- my take on the recent retina "update"

[SphericalPear]

apple pulled off an amazing gig with the latest introduction of the "new" RMBP.

1) they hardly updated the existing macbook lines.

2) instead of doing that, they introduced a "new" macbook pro line that is upscale.

3) they could have extended this to most of the other macbooks.

4) but that would have looked like a huge price increase.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

6) no one would have paid more for an updated macbook pro.

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

8) it's the craziest price hike any computer company has ever managed to pull off within an update.

9) the existing lines were artificially slowed down in order to be able to create a new price reference point of the RMBP.

10) it would have cost apple nothing to move cut the superdrive from the MBPs, make them slightly slimmer, and sell them at a slightly lower/same price. but this would have taken away from the perceived "novelty" of the RMBP, which is really just a slimmer 15" with a smaller HD.

11) however, they couldn't have raised the price with that move.

12) thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution. retina isn't even that far ahead from the resolution frontier - it's just that the old MBPs had poor resolution.

 

[leenak]

You do realize that for certain specs, the retina is actually cheaper than the regular MBP? I would've paid a couple hundred dollars more for a regular MBP if I had gone that route. Not that money is the issue but I think the retina fits my needs better and is a better price for what _I_ want.

And the reason they didn't change all the lines is for a number of reasons. They need guinea pigs like me to start using the machines so that SW developers can update their software and also see how popular it really will be. Any major issues will also be flushed out this year.

 

[samac92]

Apple introduces a new model that is better, but costs more to produce.

Apple keeps both lines of MBPs to keep everyone happy.

Eventually there will only be one line, as production costs for the new MBPs fall.

We are currently in a transition phase.

 

[SphericalPear]

yes, we ARE in a transition phase. but towards a new equilibrium with much higher prices, and nothing really will have changed.

apple could have gradually introduced these new features into the EXISTING MB lines - and kept the prices stable, as it used to do.

however, apple is doing well and realized: hey, these idiots would buy our laptops even at $2700, or almost $4000 in some currencies, if we just introduce some nonexisting features AT ONCE, as a "new laptop".

eventually, the nonretina MBPs will not be updated at all, like the white macbook, and the only laptop that will be updated is the "retina" MBP, which will, by then, have pretty much standard features. the difference is: apple will be able to charge even more, in an amazing marketing sleight of hand.

Apple introduces a new model that is better, but costs more to produce.

Apple keeps both lines of MBPs to keep everyone happy.

Eventually there will only be one line, as production costs for the new MBPs fall.

We are currently in a transition phase.

----------

you do realize that when we reach the point at which the production costs will be low, apple will still maintain the high prices for the entire bundle of its macbook? apple will be even more profitable. the biggest challenge to apple is not product quality, but the capacity to raise prices without people noticing. new product lines are the way to go to raise prices.

Eventually there will only be one line, as production costs for the new MBPs fall.

We are currently in a transition phase.

This also explains why the MBP -- and the MBA, to prepare for the 13" "retina" -- hasn't really been updated in the past two years - they were waiting for the "big bang" (or, big buck?) or bundling many small updates into one, to be able to separate it from the old MBP and to charge a huge premium.

don't expect the flat 13" MBP to cost 1100 - it'll be 1600 up, and stay that high, with the old "quasiwhite" mbp disappearing or becoming more and more outdated.

 

[leenak]

And I don't know the history of it but some people have mentioned the MacBook Airs used to be $2000 systems and now they are the cheapest lines. It doesn't benefit Apple to drop their $1000-$2000 lines so I don't know why you think they would do that.

As they manufacture more rMBP, the cheaper it will cost as also other components (SSD) will drop in price. Computers get cheaper over time, not more expensive.

 

[houkouonchi]

12) thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution. retina isn't even that far ahead from the resolution frontier - it's just that the old MBPs had poor resolution.

HAH! I have been needing a display like this for years. I am so happy a laptop finally has high resolution. I am sorry but going from the maximum resolution on laptops (1920x1200 @ 2.3 megapixels) to 2880x1800 (5.2 megapixels) is a huge increase and more than double.

 

[SphericalPear]

i don't see apple ever selling cheap computers - they could sell a worse white macbook for $500, but they don't. companies need to make profit, and thus need high prices. apple is in the business of selling products with high markups, markups being price minus cost.

And I don't know the history of it but some people have mentioned the MacBook Airs used to be $2000 systems and now they are the cheapest lines. It doesn't benefit Apple to drop their $1000-$2000 lines so I don't know why you think they would do that.

As they manufacture more rMBP, the cheaper it will cost as also other components (SSD) will drop in price. Computers get cheaper over time, not more expensive.

----------

but it's not revolutionary. it's within apple's context, because the resolutions were pretty low. but the retina resolution is NOT the frontier - there are a couple of displays (asus etc) that have similar or even better resolution.

HAH! I have been needing a display like this for years. I am so happy a laptop finally has high resolution. I am sorry but going from the maximum resolution on laptops (1920x1200 @ 2.3 megapixels) to 2880x1800 (5.2 megapixels) is a huge increase and more than double.

 

[MacDawg]

Funny how Apple gets ripped because they never provide "choices"
and now they get ripped because they do

Which is why Apple doesn't chase the elusive "make the (vocal) customer happy" model

 

[leenak]

i don't see apple ever selling cheap computers - they could sell a worse white macbook for $500, but they don't. companies need to make profit, and thus need high prices. apple is in the business of selling products with high markups, markups being price minus cost.

I didn't say cheap computers. They keep upgrading components to keep the price the same but they also do drop prices on their lines when possible. The Air is a good example of this. Retina will also drop in price.

 

[OSMac]

Spec out both lines... the IPS screen is worth the difference?

 

[houkouonchi]

but it's not revolutionary. it's within apple's context, because the resolutions were pretty low. but the retina resolution is NOT the frontier - there are a couple of displays (asus etc) that have similar or even better resolution.

Wha? There has never been a laptop *ever* with over 2048x1536 which is 3.14 megapixels. This is pretty revolutionary to me. It has more pixels than my dell monitor I originally paid $1200 for (back when the 30 inch dell and apple were new.

Actually. Please find me a desktop monitor even that is more pixels than the retina display and is under $10,000 USD new. Please...

 

[andrezx]

apple pulled off an amazing gig with the latest introduction of the "new" RMBP.

1) they hardly updated the existing macbook lines.

2) instead of doing that, they introduced a "new" macbook pro line that is upscale.

3) they could have extended this to most of the other macbooks.

4) but that would have looked like a huge price increase.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

6) no one would have paid more for an updated macbook pro.

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

8) it's the craziest price hike any computer company has ever managed to pull off within an update.

9) the existing lines were artificially slowed down in order to be able to create a new price reference point of the RMBP.

10) it would have cost apple nothing to move cut the superdrive from the MBPs, make them slightly slimmer, and sell them at a slightly lower/same price. but this would have taken away from the perceived "novelty" of the RMBP, which is really just a slimmer 15" with a smaller HD.

11) however, they couldn't have raised the price with that move.

12) thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution. retina isn't even that far ahead from the resolution frontier - it's just that the old MBPs had poor resolution.

It sounds to me you are just jealous because you can't afford one of the new RMBPs. If the RMBP doesn't fit your needs/budget, just don't buy it. There is not point of whining on the forums about it, it just makes you looks desperate. Get a life

 

[Pressure]

Yeah, take off the tinfoil hat.

Apple clearly said they were pushing technological boundaries and it seems correct, as I can see no other notebook in its class. Just like the MacBook Air we will eventually see its equivalent from other manufacturers.

They had to forego standards to be able to achieve the goal they had with this new line of notebooks. Remember what other new products were priced at in the beginning? Remember the original MacBook Air? The Playstation 3? Heck, the original MacBook Pro started at $1,999 with Core Duo 1.67Ghz, 512MB ram and 80GB hard drive.

Apple are pushing improvements and down the line you will see the other lines of notebooks gain from this exercise. Retina display is something the market wants, just look at the new iPad.

You can clearly see where this is headed. Desktop, notebook, tablets and phones will all see an retina future ahead of them. Some are already there, namely the iPhone, iPad and now the new MacBook Pro.

I am really happy Apple is pushing this display technology as the field have been stagnant for years and ignored.

 

[PeopleTheseDays]

I won't be the first to defend Apple's pricing, especially their high margins on computers. Actually I don't even understand how anyone can claim these laptops are good values knowing full well how high their margins are, but that's neither here nor there.

First off, how did Apple not update the old style laptops? They added USB3, ivy bridge CPU's and new Kepler GPU's. They even bumped up the base ram, surprisingly. The main thing is that the body style didn't change.

Also, the new high res macbook pro has an SSD standard, and which has been confirmed to be the Samsung 830 series, which is a higher end 6Gbps SSD controller so they didn't skimp out on that. Many 27" and 30" IPS displays with 2560 x 1600/1440 displays are worth over 500 dollars alone and shrinking a higher resolution panel into a smaller footprint usually costs more. I don't know the cost of the panel, and this is just extrapolation from looking at high end monitors on the market.

The high res macbook pro actually seems to be a better value than the old style to be honest.

 

[OSMac]

Not sure all lines will see Retina only as long as the PC world and internet is geared for lower density screens, I think Apple will continue to offer them?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

What puzzles me is that so many people wave the "Think Different" flag but then when Apple does something different they start yelling "Heretic!".

As others have noted, the RMBP is actually less expensive than the 15" non-Retina model with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD.

Also Apple did not discontinue the "non-Retina" MBP, in fact, it upgraded it with the same processor the RMBP received. Pick the model you like and stop being a drama queen.

 

[Corey Naish]

The entire Macbook line was just upgraded to Ivy Bridge AND Kepler... That's a pretty major upgrade.

 

[lowdownshame]

It sounds to me you are just jealous because you can't afford one of the new RMBPs. If the RMBP doesn't fit your needs/budget, just don't buy it. There is not point of whining on the forums about it, it just makes you looks desperate. Get a life

that's cold man!!

to each his own.... i believe apple couldve easily refreshed the entire line with retina but we all know apple never goes conventional route....

... currently i own 2011 MBA and i intend to purchase RMBP not because of retina but its smaller form factor + ivy bridge cpu.

 

[maflynn]

1) they hardly updated the existing macbook lines.

They updated the enclosure, the display, the GPU, and the CPU, the storage. What else is left

2) instead of doing that, they introduced a "new" macbook pro line that is upscale.

You mean offer consumers a choose.

3) they could have extended this to most of the other macbooks.

Yes but they didn't for reasons only known to them. Perhaps they'll be offering retina displays to the MBP and MBA as time marches on.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

Please cite some source material to substantiate your claim that the retina MBP is a high margin product or are you assuming this with no evidence.

 

[Stetrain]

The base 15" Macbook Pro with dedicated GPU has been around $2000 for at least 6 years, if not longer (going back even to the Powerbook days).

The current $1799 MBP is actually pretty cheap historically speaking.

Apple tends to hold general price brackets pretty firmly over time, just improving specs and features. One exception would be the Macbook Air brand, but that got a complete re-focus back in 2010.

 

[dusk007]

4) but that would have looked like a huge price increase.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

6) no one would have paid more for an updated macbook pro.

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

All this winter I gave retina a rather low chance of showing up at all. I expected a shift of all MBP models for which retina panels were too expensive and not readily available enough judging by the lack of actual information.
They decided to be first with such screens and doing something for their image that makes all the enthusiast happy (who can afford anything up to old 17" prices) and didn't do anything at all for the rest of the buyers.

I guess in a year once Windows 8 is around such panels will drift into the upper mainstream. I would just skip this upgrade unless people got so much money it doesn't matter. The Asus UX21A is with 189 ppi pretty much retina class and much brighter than the RMBP. More Notebooks will crop up. The Samsung Series 9, Sony z will probably come first and than the entire MBP range will get new screens.
If people are interested in such screens they should wait 1 more year and it will have less bugs and cost less.
Apple has a huge amount of media coverage and they can release and sell such an expensive notebook in volume. Everybody who cares a bit about money won't jump on the train just yet.
In a year with Haswell they might disband the entire current MBP line. The 13, 15" RMBP replace them completely. Maybe a 17" will be added at the top. And maybe a common 13" mainstream Macbook introduced. Though I guess it will be just MBA and RMBP after the next year Haswell release.

 

[rays09]

what i got from u all is don't buy the retina now cause it's price will drop in 2 years like the air story. so the best deal so far was the high end non retina 15" or the base retina model. considering from its price drop within next 2 years?

the difference the retina and non its only at their screen and ssd.

 

[PeopleTheseDays]

It sounds to me you are just jealous because you can't afford one of the new RMBPs. If the RMBP doesn't fit your needs/budget, just don't buy it. There is not point of whining on the forums about it, it just makes you looks desperate. Get a life

Why is jealousy always brought into the equation? I don't believe his theory any more than you do, but this just makes you seem elitist, and this is a public forum...

 

[koko76]

10) it would have cost apple nothing to move cut the superdrive from the MBPs, make them slightly slimmer, and sell them at a slightly lower/same price. but this would have taken away from the perceived "novelty" of the RMBP, which is really just a slimmer 15" with a smaller HD.

So tooling up a new line is free these days? Forgetting the design time needed to adapt each model, there is time is production planning, fixture design and building, as well as resetting existing lines and the problems that creates.
Your assumptions are not based in reality. It takes time and money to change something. Generally changing everything at once leads to far more problems. In every sense it pays for them to intro a new tech with a single model instead of across a whole line.
Oh, and surprise, they are trying to make money while doing it. Shame on them right?

 

[leenak]

what i got from u all is don't buy the retina now cause it's price will drop in 2 years like the air story. so the best deal so far was the high end non retina 15" or the base retina model. considering from its price drop within next 2 years?

the difference the retina and non its only at their screen and ssd.

It depends what you want. If you are going SSD, then the retina will be cheaper. Being an early adopter also isn't for the faint of heart. If someone isn't sure, I'd recommend waiting a year or 2.