apple trying to fool us -- my take on the recent retina "update"

[LostSoul80]

It sounds to me you are just jealous because you can't afford one of the new RMBPs. If the RMBP doesn't fit your needs/budget, just don't buy it. There is not point of whining on the forums about it, it just makes you looks desperate. Get a life

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, poor or rich.
Get a life.

 

[ohbrilliance]

And I don't know the history of it but some people have mentioned the MacBook Airs used to be $2000 systems and now they are the cheapest lines.

The drop has been dramatic. From Gizmodo's review of the first gen (http://gizmodo.com/348753/macbook-air-review):

"For almost double the price $3098, you can get a 1.8GHz chip with the same 2GB of RAM and a 64GB solid state drive module"

So four and a half years later, at that same price been, we've gone from a 64GB/2GB machine to 512GB/16GB machines with much more powerful processors and a retina display.

 

[Medic311]

don't expect the flat 13" MBP to cost 1100 - it'll be 1600 up, and stay that high, with the old "quasiwhite" mbp disappearing or becoming more and more outdated.

the best selling Apple laptop is the Macbook Pro 13" base model. by raising the base model price from $1,099 ($999 at retailers such as Micro Center) to $1,600, Apple will have priced themselves destructively too high. people would then just buy last gen refurbs

is the above fact that i respectfull disagree that apple will raise the price to $1,600 for the MBP 13" base model

 

[jsnuff1]

More expensive with minor updates? Did you even bother to see what's in this thing?

The higher end regular MacBook Pro is 2200 and the retina version costs 600 more.

Not only do you get a 512GB top of the line SSD Drive(equivalent to the new Samsung ssd retailing 700). A brand new super resolution display (worth at least 200-300 more than the standard display if not more). And let's not mention all these other improvements you can't even put a price on... Better cooling and thermal management, a slimmer more compact design, better speakers etc

So for 600 more you get AT LEAST 1000 worth of component upgrades. Seems like a deal to me.

 

[daleski75]

Some people are never happy and when I priced up the base RMBP with 16gb it came out cheaper than the stock 2.3 with the ram + ssd upgrade.

The ONLY thing I wished they updated was the crappy 1280x800 resolution of the macbook pro 13" to at least 1440x900.

 

[CrAkD]

Im doing this off memory so excuse me If I'm wrong. Isn't the difference between the 15" mbp and rmbp base $400? You don't think a 256gb ssd, retina screen and double the ram (8gb) is worth an extra $400. I'm not sure $400 even covers those things nevermind the r&d of creating the redesign. But people like you will complain so it's obvious people aren't ready for just a retina line.

 

[Zorn]

apple pulled off an amazing gig with the latest introduction of the "new" RMBP.

1) they hardly updated the existing macbook lines.

2) instead of doing that, they introduced a "new" macbook pro line that is upscale.

3) they could have extended this to most of the other macbooks.

4) but that would have looked like a huge price increase.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

6) no one would have paid more for an updated macbook pro.

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

8) it's the craziest price hike any computer company has ever managed to pull off within an update.

9) the existing lines were artificially slowed down in order to be able to create a new price reference point of the RMBP.

10) it would have cost apple nothing to move cut the superdrive from the MBPs, make them slightly slimmer, and sell them at a slightly lower/same price. but this would have taken away from the perceived "novelty" of the RMBP, which is really just a slimmer 15" with a smaller HD.

11) however, they couldn't have raised the price with that move.

12) thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution. retina isn't even that far ahead from the resolution frontier - it's just that the old MBPs had poor resolution.

Ok:

1)Your use of a numbered list combined with the way you wrote it makes this incredibly annoying to read.

2) The RMBP is actually cheaper than the MBP I would have had to buy in the past. I require the highest amount of RAM on my graphics card, and in the past I've always had to buy a $2499 MBP as a result of that. With the RMBP, they include the full 1GB of graphics RAM with the base config, so for me it's a price savings updating this time around.

 

[rays09]

It depends what you want. If you are going SSD, then the retina will be cheaper. Being an early adopter also isn't for the faint of heart. If someone isn't sure, I'd recommend waiting a year or 2.

i need a laptop before my uni start in september. maybe i need a portability it's my first concern. i do a lot photography and footage video editing for fun of course the editing ability it's my second.. not proff just as a hobbies.. if iam go with the 15" high model its about $2300 + $110 here in my country.what do you think ? it's still worth for a notebook?? considering with this price i can have the windows OS with IPS panel. but iam bored with the OS i have a desktop pc windows.

 

[pandamonia]

apple pulled off an amazing gig with the latest introduction of the "new" RMBP.

1) they hardly updated the existing macbook lines.

2) instead of doing that, they introduced a "new" macbook pro line that is upscale.

3) they could have extended this to most of the other macbooks.

4) but that would have looked like a huge price increase.

5) the "separate" "retina" macbook pro line allowed apple to have a separate high-price, extremely high-margin product that people are willing to buy.

6) no one would have paid more for an updated macbook pro.

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

8) it's the craziest price hike any computer company has ever managed to pull off within an update.

9) the existing lines were artificially slowed down in order to be able to create a new price reference point of the RMBP.

10) it would have cost apple nothing to move cut the superdrive from the MBPs, make them slightly slimmer, and sell them at a slightly lower/same price. but this would have taken away from the perceived "novelty" of the RMBP, which is really just a slimmer 15" with a smaller HD.

11) however, they couldn't have raised the price with that move.

12) thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution. retina isn't even that far ahead from the resolution frontier - it's just that the old MBPs had poor resolution.

My take on you.

1) you have no experience to make an opinion of any validity
2) You are completely wrong.
3) you cannot fathom basic maths
4) you actually know less than the little people think you know.

 

[hi-there]

...and let's not forget the R&D required to make rMBP come together and work so well! They got my vote... ordered 2.7Ghz/16GB/768GB. Yes they are expensive but I have spent $4,000 on top spec MBP before... about 6 years ago. So, in real term, it is cheaper now then 2006.

 

[bogatyr]

Im doing this off memory so excuse me If I'm wrong. Isn't the difference between the 15" mbp and rmbp base $400? You don't think a 256gb ssd, retina screen and double the ram (8gb) is worth an extra $400. I'm not sure $400 even covers those things nevermind the r&d of creating the redesign. But people like you will complain so it's obvious people aren't ready for just a retina line.

The 256GB SSD costs $500 extra in the base MBP 15", plus another $100 for the 8GB RAM upgrade. That's $600 over the base MBP. If you're going for those features (and buying from Apple) then the MBPR is a $200 savings with a retina display bonus.

Honestly the retina price seems like a good deal when compared to the MBP.

 

[Stetrain]

the best selling Apple laptop is the Macbook Pro 13" base model. by raising the base model price from $1,099 ($999 at retailers such as Micro Center) to $1,600, Apple will have priced themselves destructively too high. people would then just buy last gen refurbs

is the above fact that i respectfull disagree that apple will raise the price to $1,600 for the MBP 13" base model

It's obvious to me that Apple is trying to push the customers that have made the 13" MBP a best seller over the last couple of years to the 13" Macbook Air.

I think that the 13" Air at $1199 to $1499 and a 13" Macbook Pro at $1599-$1899 would work pretty well.

People who are just using it for school and basic computer use (My guess is that this is a good portion of those who bought the 13" MBP) can get the Air, and those who want a true powerhouse in a compact form factor can get the 13" Pro.

Also, is there any data about how well the 13" MBP has sold since the 2011 Macbook Airs came out? People keep quoting that it's Apple's best selling computer but I haven't seen any recent data to support that.

 

[houkouonchi]

I am still waiting for the OP to link me to a 2880x1800 or higher resolution monitor you can buy for under $10,000 USD new LOL.

 

[Adimagem]

Retina MBP non upgradable is a new disposable computer

As with all micro thin computers that have no ability to update the two basic components - RAM, HardDrive/SSD, and also the battery - it makes it a disposable computer. When it a component breaks you throw it out, unless under warranty.

Retina screen looks fabulous, but the pixels are really useless at that small resolution. - A 15" already tires your eyes significantly, especially if the detail is so fine and there is a reflection in the screen. So it's probably ok for casual computing but not day long hours. Get a second antiglare 24"+ color calibrating monitor for that. Another issue is untested colour accuracy of the retina display - does the display give us true 32Bit color ( 10bit per pixel or higher)?? and can it be accurately calibrated? - Photography, design, and video all need this.

Back to Hardware:

As I have burned out 3 macintoshes since the intel switch, don't expect the reliability of the pre-intel era. The G4 power macs and laptops are still running strong even though they are now left behind. (The 12" G4 was the best laptop ever for reliability.)
But not Intel Macs, I was fortunate that with my intel based 27" i7 iMac 2011 and Laptop 2008 MBP that I purchased the extended warranty. The laptop was in its second last month of warranty! And they burned out while rendering video laptop and using 3D program iMac. Also an iMac (Sept2006) fried due to excessive heat while using google earth - but no warranty - SO word to the wise ALWAYS buy the extended warranty of any new mac because the reliability is not the same as it was in the G4 era. That means the price is always about $350 more than advertised for the new Retina Display Macbook pro- An iMac is only about $170 since its internal parts are all separate.

So ALWAYS buy the warranty, I cannot say that loud enough, as the overheating design flaw is likely not be going away with the thinner and faster and hotter laptops.

2nd piece of advice buy only the high end Retina MBP with 16GBa and the warranty starting at $3,348 - don't bother with the slow versions - with less money then just get a regular MBP or if you want it light a macbook air - and ONLY buy the Retina MBP if you have lots of extra money or if your company will foot the bill because they replace your laptop to top of the line every year or two anyway.
The RAM requirements of over 8GB are fast going to overwhelm us and especially with HD video which will move to 4K in the next year or so. For good advice if you need a macbook pro don't buy the un-proven retina yet - buy the top of the line 15" with its antiglare screen and a 7200RPM 750GB hard drive and you can update the RAM to 16GB and to a SSD from OWC in the future to extend its life. Plus you can still watch your DVDs on the plane which you cannot do with the new Retina MBP. ( I for one will NOT buy digital disposable videos again-- a waste of money, i have gone back to DVD and BluRay, BluRay players are now everywhere and inexpensive.)

3rd piece of advice is to buy cheap windows machines for rendering 3d and video if software is available on that platform - Apple products are just too expensive to burn out so fast. - Or buy expensive Mac Pros which I use at work for video rendering, but they have better thermal designs than the all-in-one machines.

4th: remember the Retina MBP is the first of its model - the likely-hood of lemons is high with any version 1. Just remember back to the first intel MBP model troubles.

 

[Stetrain]

what i got from u all is don't buy the retina now cause it's price will drop in 2 years like the air story. so the best deal so far was the high end non retina 15" or the base retina model. considering from its price drop within next 2 years?

I very much doubt that the base retina 15" with dedicated graphics card will fall below $1999 for the next several years.

 

[mohsy90]

Probably one of the stupidest posts I've seen to date on MacRumors, that too coming from a 4-yr member.

 

[leman]

7) by labeling it a retina mbp and pretending it's a separate item, apple can hike up the price.

8) it's the craziest price hike any computer company has ever managed to pull off within an update.

What price hike are you talking about? The retina MBP is almost cheaper then the regular one (add the 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM and 1 GB VRAM into the equation).

BTW, no other laptop manufacturer can offer a similar machine cheaper. Look at the Razer Blade or Sony Vaio Z.

 

[SpyderBite]

companies need to make profit

/thread

 

[Poochi]

Tim Cook = Operations Master

Apple needs to complete their parts contract and use up old inventory meanwhile keep a line of notebook priced competitively to further gain market share.

This is not hard to understand.

If you are patient enough in 2 years time tops the price for MBPR will come down and be standardized.

Next year may be the same like the plastic Macbook when UniBody was introduced... So you will have all PRO line and maybe Air on Retina Display meanwhile there are the "cheap" 13" models using the old display.

Just my 2 cents.

----------

As with all micro thin computers that have no ability to update the two basic components - RAM, HardDrive/SSD, and also the battery - it makes it a disposable computer. When it a component breaks you throw it out, unless under warranty.

Retina screen looks fabulous, but the pixels are really useless at that small resolution. - A 15" already tires your eyes significantly, especially if the detail is so fine and there is a reflection in the screen. So it's probably ok for casual computing but not day long hours. Get a second antiglare 24"+ color calibrating monitor for that. Another issue is untested colour accuracy of the retina display - does the display give us true 32Bit color ( 10bit per pixel or higher)?? and can it be accurately calibrated? - Photography, design, and video all need this.

Back to Hardware:

As I have burned out 3 macintoshes since the intel switch, don't expect the reliability of the pre-intel era. The G4 power macs and laptops are still running strong even though they are now left behind. (The 12" G4 was the best laptop ever for reliability.)
But not Intel Macs, I was fortunate that with my intel based 27" i7 iMac 2011 and Laptop 2008 MBP that I purchased the extended warranty. The laptop was in its second last month of warranty! And they burned out while rendering video laptop and using 3D program iMac. Also an iMac (Sept2006) fried due to excessive heat while using google earth - but no warranty - SO word to the wise ALWAYS buy the extended warranty of any new mac because the reliability is not the same as it was in the G4 era. That means the price is always about $350 more than advertised for the new Retina Display Macbook pro- An iMac is only about $170 since its internal parts are all separate.

So ALWAYS buy the warranty, I cannot say that loud enough, as the overheating design flaw is likely not be going away with the thinner and faster and hotter laptops.

2nd piece of advice buy only the high end Retina MBP with 16GBa and the warranty starting at $3,348 - don't bother with the slow versions - with less money then just get a regular MBP or if you want it light a macbook air - and ONLY buy the Retina MBP if you have lots of extra money or if your company will foot the bill because they replace your laptop to top of the line every year or two anyway.
The RAM requirements of over 8GB are fast going to overwhelm us and especially with HD video which will move to 4K in the next year or so. For good advice if you need a macbook pro don't buy the un-proven retina yet - buy the top of the line 15" with its antiglare screen and a 7200RPM 750GB hard drive and you can update the RAM to 16GB and to a SSD from OWC in the future to extend its life. Plus you can still watch your DVDs on the plane which you cannot do with the new Retina MBP. ( I for one will NOT buy digital disposable videos again-- a waste of money, i have gone back to DVD and BluRay, BluRay players are now everywhere and inexpensive.)

3rd piece of advice is to buy cheap windows machines for rendering 3d and video if software is available on that platform - Apple products are just too expensive to burn out so fast. - Or buy expensive Mac Pros which I use at work for video rendering, but they have better thermal designs than the all-in-one machines.

4th: remember the Retina MBP is the first of its model - the likely-hood of lemons is high with any version 1. Just remember back to the first intel MBP model troubles.

I recall that I burned 3 PCs in 1 year time (and replaced HDD) before I switched over to Mac. Those weren't the cheap machine back then either.

I recall that my Dell laptop always die as soon as warranty is over. Keyboard on the laptop lifted up and were deformed due to excessive heat. Palm area experienced plastic discolouring due to heat as well.

In all fairness I have never ever upgraded my PC, nor Mac. Always bought a new machine and sold the old one after 1 to 2 years.

Also I never buy the top end model, financial loss from my frequent buy/sell is just not worth it.

Chances are you do not need to future proof your computer. Buy the one that you can get the most out of it TODAY And buy a new one tomorrow. You are ahead. Do the math. (save the Applecare money for your next computer. Even with Applecare, in the second hand market, you do not recoup the cost.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

yes, we ARE in a transition phase. but towards a new equilibrium with much higher prices, and nothing really will have changed.

apple could have gradually introduced these new features into the EXISTING MB lines - and kept the prices stable, as it used to do.

however, apple is doing well and realized: hey, these idiots would buy our laptops even at $2700, or almost $4000 in some currencies, if we just introduce some nonexisting features AT ONCE, as a "new laptop".

The only way to get prices on new tech to go down is to grow the user base. By doing that manufacturers will invest more into their production techniques to become more efficient there and, as a result, lower the price.

Remember how much a baseline MBA was when it was introduced?

 

[aristobrat]

As with all micro thin computers that have no ability to update the two basic components - RAM, HardDrive/SSD, and also the battery - it makes it a disposable computer.

This design has been used in the MacBook Air for half-a-decade now, and you're not reading about a preponderance of Air's being "disposed of" because of breaks/lack of upgradability, are you?

 

[Queen6]

This design has been used in the MacBook Air for half-a-decade now, and you're not reading about a preponderance of Air's being "disposed of" because of breaks/lack of upgradability, are you?

Exactly, the new rMBP is highly likely to prove to be more reliable than previous iterations. As for upgradability Apple for once are providing systems that are relatively well spec`d, for the vast majority the base rMBP will be more than adequate.

 

[Abazigal]

One possibility could be that Apple itself is having problems sourcing for high-res screens in sufficient quantity. Notice how quickly the shipping dates for the new MBPs dropped to 3-4 weeks? This is just one extremely specialized laptop for people with deep pockets, and they are already having trouble keeping up with demand!

Imagine if they had offered more affordable 13" retina MBPs as well. People may well be waiting for months just to get their laptops delivered.

They may well extend the retina treatment to other laptops once they are able to procure that much quantity.

 

[Adimagem]

This design has been used in the MacBook Air for half-a-decade now, and you're not reading about a preponderance of Air's being "disposed of" because of breaks/lack of upgradability, are you?

The previous MBA has some upgradability - until the last version at least - using a standardized SSD card - The MBAir is not a high-end machine, but rather a low end computer appliance with low power and heat from its processors - I would think it should be far more reliable than an i7 quad core running at 3.2 GHz or higher for hours on end.

- From an environmental angle, so long as the machine does not over-heat and break down prematurely for under 7-8 years it can be used for a decent life by multiple owners and uses and then recycled - but if it dies at under 3 years of use, as many high end laptops seem destined to do these days - no one can argue that is good. Our love for them is our downfall. For those who love the latest fastest or those of us who require the latests and fastest for our software to work efficiently. i.e. FCPX works poorly on slow machines, but it really works well if you give it over 32GB ram and a hyper-fast machine and huge RAIDed hard/SSD drives.

 

[takeshi74]

thus, the stupid retina display comes in, which no one really needs. everyone was fine with the previous resolution.

Don't need/want it? Don't buy it. Just don't assume that your lack of need/want means that no one needs/wants it. It's clearly selling despite your unsupported assertion.