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apple trying to fool us -- my take on the recent retina "update"
- Thread starter SphericalPear
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You don't seem to understand the difference between an HD and an SSD...but it is substantial. Just look at the difference in price. It's not just because, they are smaller and more expensive, but perform FAR better.
And, as far as the price, if you take a regular 15" macbook pro, add an equivalently sized SSD, same amount of RAM, and high res screen, (to make it equivalent, performance wise, to the retina display MBP), they're actually $300 more expensive.
This isn't a price hike, it's a price cut. They want people moving to these machines, so that retina display becomes more widely supported in order for them to justify moving all of their computers to retina displays.
Machines like this, designed for professional creative use, are justified in such a high res screen even without support on all apps, because the creative apps (video and photo editing, etc) do or will support the retina display, and because it can display content so much better. People are, and have good reason to, buy these displays for that kind of work. Which give devs good reason to update their apps to support retina graphics. Allowing them to move the more consumer oriented machines to retina displays as well in the future.
And, as far as the price, if you take a regular 15" macbook pro, add an equivalently sized SSD, same amount of RAM, and high res screen, (to make it equivalent, performance wise, to the retina display MBP), they're actually $300 more expensive.
This isn't a price hike, it's a price cut. They want people moving to these machines, so that retina display becomes more widely supported in order for them to justify moving all of their computers to retina displays.
Machines like this, designed for professional creative use, are justified in such a high res screen even without support on all apps, because the creative apps (video and photo editing, etc) do or will support the retina display, and because it can display content so much better. People are, and have good reason to, buy these displays for that kind of work. Which give devs good reason to update their apps to support retina graphics. Allowing them to move the more consumer oriented machines to retina displays as well in the future.
This is the only one I'll address: This was NEVER going to happen. Apple was never going to eliminate ODDs, Ethernet, and/or Firewire from their entire laptop line this year. Firewire might go away in a year or two, but ODDs and Ethernet will be available for probably several years to come on at least one model of Apple laptop - and I even expect the optical drive to actually be upgraded to blu-ray sometime next year.
Since your feature reduced MBP actually wasn't going to happen, Apple still wanted to address the market segment who actually wanted those things gone. The MBA wasn't powerful enough for those people, so they came up with the RMBP as an intermediate line.
That said, I *do* believe the Retina display on the thing is more of a marketing tool than an actual useful feature. Yes, there is a lot of demand for it - and it lets Apple sell the RMBP for a premium. But I honestly suspect a lot of people buying it will never actually use the resolution of the screen to it's full advantage - opting for slightly smoother controls and text over more screen real estate, which, IMHO, is a waste of pixels. Even by Apple's own calculations, it wasn't necessary to actually double the screen resolution in order to be "Retina" -- the existing MBP at an average viewing distance is a good chunk of the way towards being Retina anyway.
It also needs more power, hence the much larger battery in the RMBP - and the *lack* of Retina on the regular MBP. That thing has got to be increasing power requirements by 20%-40% - and thus would significantly reduce battery time on the regular MBP. Don't expect Retina on that until they cut the power requirements significantly.
But that's okay. Me, I'd much rather have an intermediate resolution I can use to get more screen real estate rather than a ridiculously high resolution which gives me the same real estate only prettier.
The retina isn't overpriced, even by Apple standards. It's a genuine value for what you get. The standard MacBook has the usual Apple tax, that's expected. It's a higher quality machine do its going to be more expensive than the windows equivalent. That said the screen should have the hi res option standard and the SSD upgrade prices are rediculous even for apple. $500 for a $200 SSD is nuts, that's not even taking out the $50 for the stock drive.
OWC has already announced (here) that they're working on a SSD upgrade for the r-MBP, leaving RAM as the only thing not upgradeable -- just like with the Air.
IMO, the difference between the Air and the r-MBP is that the r-MBP comes stock with DOUBLE the amount of RAM than any other Apple notebook. Not that I've seen a preponderance of Air owners post about having to "dispose" of their Air early because the RAM wasn't upgradeable (or failed), but that's just another factor that's in favor of the r-MBP.
You haven't owned a Air, obviously. The CPU may by ULV, but give it something intensive to do (like Flash in a web browser, or video chatting), and it'll quickly put off enough heat to ramp the fan up to 6,000 RPMs. They're notorious for this! And yes, people will runt he CPU hot for hours on end (streaming Netflix, etc). Again, no preponderance of RAM or SSD drives failing from the heat.
Why would you think that? Have you seen a lot of previous generation MBP owners complaining that their notebook failed because its faster processor was running for hours on end?
Macbook Pro Prices
I wonder why the 2.6 Ghz & the 2.3 Ghz Retina are BOTH priced the same ...?
This seemes more redicuslious to me.... Unless its to tell customers, "for the same price i can get a better display". This must be the *only* reason.
As the 15' MBP is looks the same as previous 2011, only this one is over priced. Where as at least you could tell the different in price before.
People may use this as a form of "Well... Both 15' Pros are the same price which is expensive"
This is probably where the refub. store makes more sense than ever now.
I wonder why the 2.6 Ghz & the 2.3 Ghz Retina are BOTH priced the same ...?
This seemes more redicuslious to me.... Unless its to tell customers, "for the same price i can get a better display". This must be the *only* reason.
As the 15' MBP is looks the same as previous 2011, only this one is over priced. Where as at least you could tell the different in price before.
People may use this as a form of "Well... Both 15' Pros are the same price which is expensive"
This is probably where the refub. store makes more sense than ever now.
You mean the way the MacBook Air was introduced at $1199 and now costs $1799 despite having much worse specs?
Oh wait. That's the exact OPPOSITE of what Apple did, isn't it?
I was really planning on buying the "old" MBP, because of the lag issues and Apps that are not yet optimized.. But with the configuration i wanted, the normal MBP got so expensive, that even if i replaced the SSD and RAM manually, it still made no sense at all to not buy the retina.
But i guess if you are fine with the standard harddisk instead of SSD and the low resolution display (i would have taken the 1680 x 1050 matt one) and low amount of RAM, the retina looks like a rip-off to you.
But i guess if you are fine with the standard harddisk instead of SSD and the low resolution display (i would have taken the 1680 x 1050 matt one) and low amount of RAM, the retina looks like a rip-off to you.
You could have consolidated all that in one point: "bla bla bla...I can't get the retina MBP so I'll whine instead...bla."
15" cMBP with:
i7 2.6Ghz
8GB ram
512GB SSD
1440x900 display
----------------------
$3099
15" rMBP with:
i7 2.6Ghz
16GB ram
512GB SSD
2880x1800 display
----------------------
$2999
Please explain the EXTREME price gouge you were discussing so blatantly for us.
This isn't a gimmick...this is a step. Apple has always introduced technology in steps to allow it to become standard without forcing everyones hand!
iPhone 4 came out with the Retina display. iPhone 3Gs was still available as the affordable model.
iPad 3 comes out with a Retina display. iPad 2 still available for those that want it.
Macbook Pro comes out with a Retina, and based on the overwhelming response, all models will soon follow suit. Apple has never carpet bombed new tech tho! They release it to get a feel for the playing field. If it is successful they start stretching it out across other formats....high res displays have been slowly reaching the whole line since the iPhone 4 came out.
i7 2.6Ghz
8GB ram
512GB SSD
1440x900 display
----------------------
$3099
15" rMBP with:
i7 2.6Ghz
16GB ram
512GB SSD
2880x1800 display
----------------------
$2999
Please explain the EXTREME price gouge you were discussing so blatantly for us.
This isn't a gimmick...this is a step. Apple has always introduced technology in steps to allow it to become standard without forcing everyones hand!
iPhone 4 came out with the Retina display. iPhone 3Gs was still available as the affordable model.
iPad 3 comes out with a Retina display. iPad 2 still available for those that want it.
Macbook Pro comes out with a Retina, and based on the overwhelming response, all models will soon follow suit. Apple has never carpet bombed new tech tho! They release it to get a feel for the playing field. If it is successful they start stretching it out across other formats....high res displays have been slowly reaching the whole line since the iPhone 4 came out.
You all just got baited! That guy who started this thread has not said anything since his original post. Dude is just trying to get people worked-up. Forget this thread.
this is patently false. i have since been observing:
1) posts of RMBP buyers in this forum. typical pattern: i spent a lot of $$ on a bad, premature, oversold product. they tend to come here for reassurance... google "Cognitive dissonance" or "cognitive consonance"...
2) there are a couple of honest buyers that return this flawed product. see:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1401548/
or
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1400731/
The response from the forum tends to be to avoid cognitive dissonance.
3) too many people buy the 15" instead of the 13", and then tell themselves it's a fine choice. truth is, the 15th" is for photographers, designers, etc. in times of cheap external screens and high mobility demand, the 15" is a niche.
4) thanks for the ad hominem comment about me not being able to afford $2700 for a laptop. i certainly can, but i really don't like to waste my money. i tend to want to keep my laptops (i have 2 at a time, plus a desktop) for more than two or three years. this would certainly not be the case with the first generation RMBP.
5) having spoked with the tech community, word is that this is the most risky and bad first-generation apple product to ever get. wait, guys. things will get better in a couple of months.
1) posts of RMBP buyers in this forum. typical pattern: i spent a lot of $$ on a bad, premature, oversold product. they tend to come here for reassurance... google "Cognitive dissonance" or "cognitive consonance"...
2) there are a couple of honest buyers that return this flawed product. see:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1401548/
or
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1400731/
The response from the forum tends to be to avoid cognitive dissonance.
3) too many people buy the 15" instead of the 13", and then tell themselves it's a fine choice. truth is, the 15th" is for photographers, designers, etc. in times of cheap external screens and high mobility demand, the 15" is a niche.
4) thanks for the ad hominem comment about me not being able to afford $2700 for a laptop. i certainly can, but i really don't like to waste my money. i tend to want to keep my laptops (i have 2 at a time, plus a desktop) for more than two or three years. this would certainly not be the case with the first generation RMBP.
5) having spoked with the tech community, word is that this is the most risky and bad first-generation apple product to ever get. wait, guys. things will get better in a couple of months.
13) as the many unhappy first-generation impulse buyer threads show, it's a beta product, with many flaws.
To be fair, people don't tend to come to forums to post about how happy they are with a product. It's kind of fallacious reasoning to extrapolate forum posts into a reflection of the opinions of the wider user base.
I currently have a 2.6/8gb/512 model, and while there are downsides compared to the standard MBP, having a 1920x1200 workspace in a fast, quiet, cool-running 4.5 pound laptop has been amazing, particularly coming from a 1680x1050 17" model.
That said, I'm not going to post or contribute to a thread every time I do something that makes me appreciate the laptop's benefits.
I honestly would like to know what some people are expecting from the rmbp. It really is no more expensive than a cmbp in similar configuration. Are people expecting this thing to make them toast in the morning? Maybe give them a foot run while they browse the web? I just don't get it.
It sucks that forums are more of a place to bitch and complain than to talk about how happy you are with a product. It will take some defects in mine to actually get me to return it when it arrives. I am not expecitng the best thing since sliced bread. I am expecting an updated mbp with a nice screen. And that is what I will get.
It sucks that forums are more of a place to bitch and complain than to talk about how happy you are with a product. It will take some defects in mine to actually get me to return it when it arrives. I am not expecitng the best thing since sliced bread. I am expecting an updated mbp with a nice screen. And that is what I will get.
Since you "spoked" with the tech community, I will make sure to listen to your opinion. You obviously have demonstrated
1) advanced maturity
2) factual statements
3) reasonable logic
in this thread. In case you don't know, that was all sarcasm.
You have 50 down votes and obviously nobody agrees with your ignorance. This is really stupid everyone is getting mad about an Apple product, but it's more than that. Your unintelligence and negligence is plainly pissing people off, and I'm sure more than a few people would like you to not start ignorant, unintelligent threads like this again.
Another very mature response.
Sure you have the right to post or say whatever you like, but if you're intentionally saying things to aggregate other people, then there is something really wrong with you and you have emotional issues.
If you unintentionally are saying things that happen to aggregate people, maybe a forum site isn't for you.
Personally the RMBP fits my needs perfectly. The screen is a pleasure to use, I can't stop admiring it, the thing looks gorgeous. It is thin enough to come into Uni with me everyday yet has great screen real estate. It has plenty of power and has handled everything I have thrown at it. I cannot complain. I wouldn't have considered the legacy 15" (as amazing as it is) because I don't need an odd, I like the form factor of the retina, and of course the display.
It isn't for everyone, but there are a lot of people who have fired out for it, so it can't be all that bad. This machine will keep me for 3 years.
It isn't for everyone, but there are a lot of people who have fired out for it, so it can't be all that bad. This machine will keep me for 3 years.
but this the forum that is made to whine, complain, criticize and discuss. however, you can decide what to read and what to ignore.
apologies if i appeared overly destructive. but yes, i did mean to be destructive in my criticism - and i believe it is sometimes necessary/inevitable to appear somewhat annoying, aggregating and obnoxious to voice a kind of criticism that many people who bought (into) a product or brand are unlikely to acknowledge for cognitive consonance reasons. a wake-up call always feels unpleasant at first, but we can't all be asleep all day.
I can see your point, a lot of people including myself won't be the first to admit something sucks because of brand loyalty, especially Apple products. But looking at your OP again, I can't see how that would do anything but aggregate any Macforum reader, whether they have a rMBP or not.