Apple Turning to Select Retail Store Employees to Help Improve Maps for iOS 6

[G4DP]

lol, I don't think they'd send them to the mountains. Besides. Would you rather have them not use them? It's not like they're relying 100% on these employees to do this. They're just adding them to their efforts at fixing this stuff.

They know these employees aren't export cartographers. They'll give them tasks suited to their abilities. Which is most likely just driving around.

Sadly Apple didn't employ a lot of cartographers. They employed GIS guys and hoped for the best. No cartographer worth their salt would want to be associated with this.

I speak as a cartographer. Apple couldn't pay me enough to put my name to the output from this App.

 

[d21mike]

It appears Google is getting information from the WHOIS Database. I am required to review my information for all of my web sites annually. So it should be accurate (business name, address, contact, web site url). I know all business's do not have a web site but more and more do. You would think this would be a good source of "additional" business information for the POI Database.

 

[DaffyDuck]

I had submitted corrections from day one but NONE were corrected.

Apple doesn't make the actual corrections. Yelp, TomTom, etc make them. So, the question to ask is how quickly each of those will act and do they have to do any of their own verification of corrections.

 

[gatearray]

Rather than relying on handful of employees, if apple would open maps to general public using some web based method like google maps, it will be far far easier to report errors.
Egoistic company.

Yeah, instead of asking their customers to help fix their product for free, they're going to pay their employees to do the work!

Imagine the nerve of of this "egoistic" company to do such a thing, well I never!!!

_______________

I know high school sux, but instead of posting nonsense to Internet forums, you should really be working on that big homework assignment for social studies, it's due on Friday you know.

 

[dv8r]

Waze (which Android fans loved until Apple started using them) + TomTom (which lots of people loved until Apple started using them) + user-submitted improvements from millions of iOS 6 users + Apple’s own internal improvements such as this program = pretty good maps pretty quick!

Don't really get this TomTom love - they have (had) the worst app and their maps are generally lacking.

 

[DaffyDuck]

Sadly Apple didn't employ a lot of cartographers. They employed GIS guys and hoped for the best. No cartographer worth their salt would want to be associated with this.

I speak as a cartographer. Apple couldn't pay me enough to put my name to the output from this App.

What's your take on the quality of vector data? To me, it seems to be very low in resolution. It's like Google maps is Crysis and Apple maps is Doom or Wolfenstein 3D.

 

[iChrist]

Not sure how I feel about this. Some of the store employees are clueless.

Ha. True. But worse than the map idiots in Cupertino? At least they are cheaper, and I don't think they can be worse. Apple is smart to use the minions.They probably have social life and can give real world experience instead as opposed to the Maps team.

I wonder if the mobileme team was reassigned to maps.

 

[powers74]

OK guys...

"Duct tape one of these to the top of your car and drive around town for a few hours"

http://photojojo.com/store/awesomeness/iphone-dot-pano-lens/

 

[iphoneclassic]

Don't really get this TomTom love - they have (had) the worst app and their maps are generally lacking.

I use Tom Tom app on iPhone for navigation when I travel. This is a better alternative than carrying other GPS device or pay $12 per day extra to car rental company. One of the reasons I bought IP5 is the bigger screen for navigation. Of course I have to wait for TomTom to release an update to use 4 inch screen.

It is at par with other navigation device. Maps are stored on the device, it is a major advantage, particularly if you are going through an EDGE network. Garmin app also using this method.

When they can sell single app for $49, they are not going to give everything for $1 to Apple. Nokia paid $8.1 Billion for NAVTEQ.

Also Tom Tom updates maps once a year. Not sure what Apple is expecting them to do, even if they collect the corrections.

 

[d21mike]

Apple doesn't make the actual corrections. Yelp, TomTom, etc make them. So, the question to ask is how quickly each of those will act and do they have to do any of their own verification of corrections.

As I mentioned earlier we changed the Yelp information within Yelp (we have an Account) and it changed immediately. Not sure how long that information will take to get to Apple Maps. I can tell you it was done last week and has not updated yet. This was only a name change.

----------

Maybe Apple needs something like Google Places where you could update the information about your business. Maybe post a picture as well.

http://www.google.com/places/

 

[HMI]

Same

I had my first maps issue yesterday. I told it to take me to Tijuana Flats (restaurant.) It found the one I wanted and I let it navigate me. I ended up in a residential neighborhood.

Luckily I had been there once before and when I was pulling out of the neighborhood I saw the shopping center down the road. I submitted the correction.

Looking at the map they have the address correct, but the pin is one block over which puts it inside of a neighborhood.

And for those saying you need highly trained employees - these people are checking map data, not creating the maps application. Essentially they are like the Google street view drivers. Just follow the directions and drive your car.

I saw the same thing searching for "La Basilica De Guadalupe" in Mexico City the other day. They have the correct location identified correctly, but the search results and pin were way off. This isn't just restaurants that have problems, it's also some major tourist POI as well. I would feel bad for someone who isn't familiar with a given locale, and chose to follow those directions without double-checking them first.

 

[colinwil]

It's not just the data...

The thing is, it's not just the data that's the problem. It's the app itself.

For instance, who's bright idea was it to display all roads, except motorways, as pale grey lines on a pale yellow background?

It doesn't parse UK addresses correctly. Even when they have the correct postcode.

It displays road names, but not road numbers. There are an awful lot of 'London Road's here in the UK.

It doesn't display motorway junction numbers.

etc. etc. All of this information is in the data - But the Apple maps app chooses not to show it

 

[Bishop1j]

Real chance that Apple will do this

yo! Apple. Why don't you stop being cheapos and spend some of that billions to actually hire thousands of people who's job is dedicating to fixing your maps. Get those people out on the streets, on foot, in cars, anything. That's how Google Maps got to the level of quality it is today.

However getting those people up and running takes time, whereas using the existing network of retail employees has a pretty quick turn around to get some immediate improvements.

It really is quite smart.

 

[KnightWRX]

If thats true, doubling oversight is even more important though even the 1.0 version is not end of the world. I remember that it took 2-3 iterations for OS X to become a best desktop OS as we know it by now.

The difference is, Apple shipped OS X originally as an optional install, with OS 9 being available to customers. It then provided Classic, an emulation of OS 9 on OS X computers when it finally did make OS X the default.

Maps was just thrown out there, replaced the default and didn't provide a fallback to the old, functional framework/app.

In hindsight, Apple should've used the OS X model to released Maps.

 

[work247]

How do you test a Map Application?

It is hard to believe that Apple did not have a better systematic way to test its Map app. How about writing a program to go through coordinates / locations, and move its map around, then do the same thing using Google map, or others. Have a graphic/image processing application to compare both maps to flag errors/issues.

 

[namenotfound]

Apple doesn't make the actual corrections. Yelp, TomTom, etc make them. So, the question to ask is how quickly each of those will act and do they have to do any of their own verification of corrections.

Apple Maps is not using any current version of the Yelp database. If I ask for TGI Fridays Restaurant in Nashville, Siri gives me 3 "near me". The one with the Yelp icon is 3 blocks off from it's geographic location. However, the YELP APP on my iPad will give the correct location. Both Nokia maps and Google maps get it right (2034 West End). Yelp web gets it right. Bing gets it right. Yahoo gets it right.

Seriously, what the heck is going on?

 

[KnightWRX]

Well, for Google which is used to stealing others' IP, might be a normal suggestion. But not to people who innovate themselves.

Surely you can't be talking about Apple, who have "stolen" as much IP as Google "stole" over the years.

- iPod interface from Creative Labs
- Visual Voice Mail from Klausner
- iPhone trademark from Cisco

...

If "innovate" or "not innovate" means being guilty or not of IP infringement lawsuits, Apple has a bunch of "not innovate" successfully won against them. The only assinine thing here is people using "stolen/steal/stole" to talk about IP infringement.

----------

It is hard to believe that Apple did not have a better systematic way to test its Map app. How about writing a program to go through coordinates / locations, and move its map around, then do the same thing using Google map, or others. Have a graphic/image processing application to compare both maps to flag errors/issues.

The problem is precisely that, programs that do automated testing do not produce good results when testing maps. One researcher thinks this is part of the issue with Apple's solution, that they relied on automatic testing :

http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399

 

[gnasher729]

It is hard to believe that Apple did not have a better systematic way to test its Map app. How about writing a program to go through coordinates / locations, and move its map around, then do the same thing using Google map, or others. Have a graphic/image processing application to compare both maps to flag errors/issues.

Comparing maps to Google maps would put Apple onto very dangerous legal ground. Not going to happen. OpenStreetMaps is different, but no way would Apple use Google maps that way.

 

[fjpoblam]

This certainly has great potential for efficiency.

The app has need for corrections. The way to do it is for folks to visit the world and submit photos or other descriptions of discrepancies. Apple might be inundated with submissions, and it might take large staff time to receive, read, and filter these submissions. Submissions might differ from one user to another, and there might even be "spam" submissions. Limiting the "real-world" observations to Apple employees might provide greater credibility, and allow the "assumption" of less filtering, of submitted corrections.

 

[StoneJack]

The difference is, Apple shipped OS X originally as an optional install, with OS 9 being available to customers. It then provided Classic, an emulation of OS 9 on OS X computers when it finally did make OS X the default.

Maps was just thrown out there, replaced the default and didn't provide a fallback to the old, functional framework/app.

In hindsight, Apple should've used the OS X model to released Maps.

you are wrong. OS X didn't ship as an optional install. It shipped as v 1.0 standalone product long after OS 9.2.1 was shipped. I know because I am a real Mac user and I bought OS X on day 1. Classic utilized the existing OS 9 installation for running OS 9 apps if necessary but OS X never required OS 9 for running OS X apps. But of course, how would fandroids know

Apple is doing exactly what it did with OS X. It shipped standalone v1.0 product, Apple Maps, which replaces Google maps, another standalone product. In case, if one needs to run additional apps for whatever reasons, fallback apps are plenty and available, starting from Bing, a free standalone app and tens of GPS and map apps, and a web version of Gmaps. In next iterations of Apple Map it will be able to leapfrog whatever advantages Gmaps had because Apple Map is built into system and is a core extension of it, and therefore, can have deep integration with OS which would be never available for Gmaps in whatever version it might come (if it comes).

For example, there will be deeper integration between Siri, Facebook, Twitter and AppleMaps; AppleMaps and camera apps, AppleMaps as a standalone locational search app, partially replacing Google search for POI such as shopping, entertainment, AppleMaps as a backbone for Siri and reminders, etc.

 

[work247]

Create an app to take a photo of POI and send to Apple

How about creating an app to take photo of POI (store name, build number ...) and send to Apple. The photo will carrier GPS geo codes. When Apple server read the photo and OCR the name/nubmer, it matches up its location/POI database to update/fix. BTW - it will create an interesting database of location based photos on the map!!!

Call it iFixMap.

 

[G4DP]

What's your take on the quality of vector data? To me, it seems to be very low in resolution. It's like Google maps is Crysis and Apple maps is Doom or Wolfenstein 3D.

The quality of the data is abysmal. They got what they paid for. They tried to do this on the cheap. Using information that had already been processed instead of taking raw information from a mapping agency and doing their own work. It may have cost them a few $m in licensing with the agencies but it would have been worth it.

Which is contrary to what they claimed on stage.

I said in a previous thread on this, they should have got data from original sources, e.g. USGS, OS and IGN. The maps and basic info would have been excellent. They could have started with a great basic mapping application.

All the additional data could be added in layers over time.

I think many users would be able to live without the additional functionality if the basic information was correct. Sadly not a single layer of the application works properly.

People thinking that this will be any good in a couple of months are deluding themselves. Small areas will be greatly improved, but the wider maps will be dreadful for years.

Google maps is as good as it is because they have had a large work force on it for a long time. Apples belief that they could compete in 12 months with second hand data was deluded at best and down right ignorant at worst.

you are wrong. OS X didn't ship as an optional install. It shipped as v 1.0 standalone product long after OS 9.2.1 was shipped. I know because I am a real Mac user and I bought OS X on day 1. Classic utilized the existing OS 9 installation for running OS 9 apps if necessary but OS X never required OS 9 for running OS X apps. But of course, how would fandroids know

Apple is doing exactly what it did with OS X. It shipped standalone v1.0 product, Apple Maps, which replaces Google maps, another standalone product. In case, if one needs to run additional apps for whatever reasons, fallback apps are plenty and available, starting from Bing, a free standalone app and tens of GPS and map apps, and a web version of Gmaps. In next iterations of Apple Map it will be able to leapfrog whatever advantages Gmaps had because Apple Map is built into system and is a core extension of it, and therefore, can have deep integration with OS which would be never available for Gmaps in whatever version it might come (if it comes).

For example, there will be deeper integration between Siri, Facebook, Twitter and AppleMaps; AppleMaps and camera apps, AppleMaps as a standalone locational search app, partially replacing Google search for POI such as shopping, entertainment, AppleMaps as a backbone for Siri and reminders, etc.

No, 10.0 was released in 2000, 9.2.1 was released in 2001. Real mac user my arse!

 

[dv8r]

Apple Maps is not using any current version of the Yelp database. If I ask for TGI Fridays Restaurant in Nashville, Siri gives me 3 "near me". The one with the Yelp icon is 3 blocks off from it's geographic location. However, the YELP APP on my iPad will give the correct location. Both Nokia maps and Google maps get it right (2034 West End). Yelp web gets it right. Bing gets it right. Yahoo gets it right.

Almost 100% of locations coming from Yelp are way off in my town - so it could have been an issue when they merged with the Yelp data.

 

[KnightWRX]

you are wrong. OS X didn't ship as an optional install. It shipped as v 1.0 standalone product long after OS 9.2.1 was shipped. I know because I am a real Mac user and I bought OS X on day 1.

I am wrong ? No sorry, you don't know what you're talking about "Mr. I'm a real Mac user".

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/200...the-Default-Operating-System-on-All-Macs.html

OS X was made default in January 2002. OS X by then was up to version 10.1.2. 10.0 was also such a god awful mess (normal being a first release of a new operating system based a whole new architecture) that 10.1 was made free of charge.

So I'll state it again : Maps should have followed the same route. Initial release of Maps "1.0" side by side with the iOS 5 Maps/Map Kit framework so as not to break anything while users get to play with it and find all the remaining issues and then later when the product is actually deemed solid, replace the old iOS 5 Maps/Map Kit with the new one.

Apple is doing exactly what it did with OS X. It shipped standalone v1.0 product, Apple Maps, which replaces Google maps, another standalone product.

Except that's not what they are doing, unless you are just completely ignorant of how the OS X release was handled. Which you of course proved you were.

Guess I'm more of a real Mac user than you are.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Apple doesn't listen to their customers, let alone their employees.