Apple Turning to Select Retail Store Employees to Help Improve Maps for iOS 6

[Brazuca]

The quality of the data is abysmal. They got what they paid for. They tried to do this on the cheap. Using information that had already been processed instead of taking raw information from a mapping agency and doing their own work. It may have cost them a few $m in licensing with the agencies but it would have been worth it.

Which is contrary to what they claimed on stage.

I said in a previous thread on this, they should have got data from original sources, e.g. USGS, OS and IGN. The maps and basic info would have been excellent. They could have started with a great basic mapping application.

All the additional data could be added in layers over time.

I think many users would be able to live without the additional functionality if the basic information was correct. Sadly not a single layer of the application works properly.

People thinking that this will be any good in a couple of months are deluding themselves. Small areas will be greatly improved, but the wider maps will be dreadful for years.

Google maps is as good as it is because they have had a large work force on it for a long time. Apples belief that they could compete in 12 months with second hand data was deluded at best and down right ignorant at worst.



No, 10.0 was released in 2000, 9.2.1 was released in 2001. Real mac user my arse!

Very curious on how you came to this conclusion. AFAIK, they licensed from reputable map sources. Any it seems that the majority of the issues is with POIs and with the search backend (parsing addresses, etc). Less so with actually having roads show on the map (I came across examples of roads in Brazil that Apple has and google doesn't, and vice versa.)

Your post is interesting, but it would be great to understand if you are making assumptions or if this is based on your observation of actual data.

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Almost 100% of locations coming from Yelp are way off in my town - so it could have been an issue when they merged with the Yelp data.

That's what I see as well. Somehow, the merge of POIs onto the map layer got borked. POIs are often there, but slightly off (within the block, or many blocks away). I see that in many places in NYC. Could be that someone forgot to "center" the map before hitting "export"

 

[StoneJack]

I am wrong ? No sorry, you don't know what you're talking about "Mr. I'm a real Mac user".

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/200...the-Default-Operating-System-on-All-Macs.html

OS X was made default in January 2002. OS X by then was up to version 10.1.2. 10.0 was also such a god awful mess (normal being a first release of a new operating system based a whole new architecture) that 10.1 was made free of charge.

So I'll state it again : Maps should have followed the same route. Initial release of Maps "1.0" side by side with the iOS 5 Maps/Map Kit framework so as not to break anything while users get to play with it and find all the remaining issues and then later when the product is actually deemed solid, replace the old iOS 5 Maps/Map Kit with the new one.

Except that's not what they are doing, unless you are just completely ignorant of how the OS X release was handled. Which you of course proved you were.

Guess I'm more of a real Mac user than you are.

If you can read, no one is talking about when OS X was made default. And no one is talking about 10.1 update. I guess, using Gmaps really melts brains!

 

[iamcornelis]

Why not simply create an automated script that verifies Apple maps locations and names with a Google maps API? I really don't care for 3D being incorrect as long as the map data is correct...

 

[jaymzuk]

Why not simply create an automated script that verifies Apple maps locations and names with a Google maps API? I really don't care for 3D being incorrect as long as the map data is correct...

Because that would just be copying Google and passing it off as Apple's work.

That sort of thing is frowned upon, and ironic would be woefully inadequate to describe such a turn of events.

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

Not just mapping that is wrong - sat images are rubbish

It is not just that the mapping is full of errors and missing lots of roads and features but the quality of the satellite imagery in a lot of the UK is hopeless. Where did they buy this data - Borat's Bargain Imaging in downtown Astana (Kasakhstan)? Apparently I live in the middle of a green blur. The Google image is crystal clear. This is simply a matter of not spending enough on the data. Neither Apple nor Google own satellites, they buy the data from third parties.

In addition, on my iPad3, the pin dragging feature to make corrections does not seem to work. Roll on the Google App.

 

[winston1236]

What a painful job!

 

[macchiato2009]

the company looks desperate over Maps app to have retail employees trying to fix it

jeez Tim, you want what is best for us ?

then Google Maps is the best app

 

[iamcornelis]

Because that would just be copying Google and passing it off as Apple's work.

That sort of thing is frowned upon, and ironic would be woefully inadequate to describe such a turn of events.

It would not be copying if it was only used to detect false locations on Apple's map. They could use this report of 'suspected' false locations to further investigate. It's not so different from users telling Apple that a location is wrong after visually checking with Google maps.

 

[Apple Corps]

Eh? I'm not saying people shouldn't push for Apple to do better. I'm saying people should probably calm down a bit and make sense or maybe at the very least stop contradicting themselves between various BREAKING stories that hit Twitter and Facebook. You know, make sense so you can effectively express what you want to Apple.

The calm down a bit does resonate for many of us, +1 if that was your point.

Between the time I responded to your post and now, we have another iOS 6 bug regarding the MS Exchange meetings invitation.

Probably not a big deal to fix but MORE AMMUNITION for people to shoot at Apple with. Especially concerning as Apple has made headway into the large corporation enterprise space and this is now on said corporation's radar with a bug.

 

[Mliii]

I fail to see how this has any downside. At worst it marginally improves the maps experience...

I would agree with this sentiment. However, it certainly doesn't come close to dealing with the fundamentals of the mapping issue.
And I hate to sound so cynical, but there is a part of me that wonders how much of this is just a stunt so Apple can say, "See, we've put our worldwide employee base to work to solve this problem- that's how much we care..."

 

[realmike]

Apple Maps and Retail Map Checkers?

This is really just very silly.

No map data is perfect, but the issue here is not necessarily the map data. It is the compilation of the raw data, indexing of the raw data, compression, and how that data is rendered, searched, and utilized in the engine.

I've built these same maps for 10 years, and have been working in the nav software business for the last 3+...I don't care how many people Apple has in their stores to sit behind a screen and systematically check the representation of the data. Unless they are trying to uncover a systematic error in their compilation and the algorithms and processes used to represent the data on the screen...it is a waste of time. I hope that Apple is not doing what this article leads us to think they are doing. It would just reinforce that they are in the wrong business and should not have gone down this road.

 

[CristobalHuet]

Mobile Me?
Ping?
Siri?
Lion?

Two of those do not belong...

 

[Mliii]

This is really just very silly.

No map data is perfect, but the issue here is not necessarily the map data. It is the compilation of the raw data, indexing of the raw data, compression, and how that data is rendered, searched, and utilized in the engine.

I've built these same maps for 10 years, and have been working in the nav software business for the last 3+...I don't care how many people Apple has in their stores to sit behind a screen and systematically check the representation of the data. Unless they are trying to uncover a systematic error in their compilation and the algorithms and processes used to represent the data on the screen...it is a waste of time. I hope that Apple is not doing what this article leads us to think they are doing. It would just reinforce that they are in the wrong business and should not have gone down this road.

This is a good post. Thank you! And again, it makes me wonder whether this 'select employee group' thing is just a PR stunt.

 

[iAppTime]

Lol there isn't even an Apple store here in Belgium. Are we doomed to have ****** maps now?

 

[swingerofbirch]

Who would have thought Apple Store employees would be outfitted as cartographers? I imagine them being given compasses and tricorn hats as they march into suburbia discovering the world.

As always makes me think of this, as well:

 

[Mliii]

It is not just that the mapping is full of errors and missing lots of roads and features but the quality of the satellite imagery in a lot of the UK is hopeless. Where did they buy this data - Borat's Bargain Imaging in downtown Astana (Kasakhstan)? Apparently I live in the middle of a green blur. The Google image is crystal clear. This is simply a matter of not spending enough on the data. Neither Apple nor Google own satellites, they buy the data from third parties.

Funny! Yes, I appear to spend much of my time in the clouds...I had no idea I was so close to heaven!

 

[baryon]

I had a play with an iPhone 5 and the new maps today, and it was very hard for me to find a location where flyover worked. I mean, most of the time it's just a flat satellite image, just like Google Maps, unless you type in something like the Big Ben or Golden Gate Bridge. Unless you want to see tourist attractions in 3D, it's very pointless.

So basically, iOS maps doesn't really do more than Google Maps, in fact, it does less, since Google Maps at least had Street View, which is ridiculously useful since it covers pretty much even the tiniest streets of every major city.

 

[ncaissie]

They can't trust every error report they get.

Reports will need to be verified and checked before they update the maps.

If 120 people in an area flag an error they are more likely to act on it.

If more than one person reports the same error they should just correct it in good faith. What are the chances of different people reporting the same false info?
As long as it's not a change that would hurt anyone it can't be as bad as all the errors they have now. If it's a business then they can simply call the business to verify the info.

 

[TC25]

iOS 6 maps is a failure. Steve Jobs would have never allowed such a terrible product to be released.

It's amazing how many MR members knew Steve Jobs.

 

[dk206]

this sounds really bad....it took Google years and years to get this.
By the time iPhone 8 is out. Then iMaps will be ready for primetime.

They should've stuck with Google's alternative.

 

[ogee]

Apple Maps is not using any current version of the Yelp database. If I ask for TGI Fridays Restaurant in Nashville, Siri gives me 3 "near me". The one with the Yelp icon is 3 blocks off from it's geographic location. However, the YELP APP on my iPad will give the correct location. Both Nokia maps and Google maps get it right (2034 West End). Yelp web gets it right. Bing gets it right. Yahoo gets it right.

Seriously, what the heck is going on?

I am not an expert on this but I think you will find that Apple has its own POI layer on top of the map data. Traffic info is on another layer, street names on another etc. Some of these layers will be controlled by 3rd parties and takes time to update, others belong to Apple.

If I am right, then once this team gets to work, then we will see corrections to *some* layers coming through fast, even daily, within the next few weeks. After all, when we use maps we are pulling the info from an apple server, not from an App update.

Of course, maybe some here would prefer that Apple takes no action and we get no corrections made

 

[G4DP]

Very curious on how you came to this conclusion. AFAIK, they licensed from reputable map sources. Any it seems that the majority of the issues is with POIs and with the search backend (parsing addresses, etc). Less so with actually having roads show on the map (I came across examples of roads in Brazil that Apple has and google doesn't, and vice versa.)

Your post is interesting, but it would be great to understand if you are making assumptions or if this is based on your observation of actual data.

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That's what I see as well. Somehow, the merge of POIs onto the map layer got borked. POIs are often there, but slightly off (within the block, or many blocks away). I see that in many places in NYC. Could be that someone forgot to "center" the map before hitting "export"

You think TomTom is a good source for a mapping app? It is fine for a bog standard simple Sat Nav, but not for a full mapping application. You need to get that from mapping agencies. You know people that actual do the cartography. TomTom, take the data and strip it down to purely what they need for the Sat Nav system to work correctly. If as has been reported Apple bought this, then they truly are ***** idiots.

I haven't got the App myself, I went to our local reseller and played around to see what all the fuss was about. Checked out some of the images of where I live. They are using stuff that is 10 years old. It still shows my mothers car outside a house she sold in 2002. After that I just laughed and walked out.

Now, clearly not all of the world has up to date aerial photography etc, but nothing more recent than 10 years in the UK? Rubbish.

In the states the mapping itself might be okay, but the rest of the world is a joke.

Apple tried to be cheap and it has back fired. Which ever shmuck stood on stage and claimed that they were doing all of their own cartography should be fired.

 

[ogee]

If more than one person reports the same error they should just correct it in good faith. What are the chances of different people reporting the same false info?
As long as it's not a change that would hurt anyone it can't be as bad as all the errors they have now. If it's a business then they can simply call the business to verify the info.

So If I put a pin on Tower Bridge and say this is really the Golden Gate bridge, Apple should just accept it as true without having it checked?

mmmmm interesting idea.

 

[bozzykid]

I reported some errors weeks ago, they still haven't corrected them... how long will this take?

A very long time most likely. That is why I find these articles about how Apple is going to magically crowd source all this data from it's vast amount of iOS users to make maps better. The problem is Apple doesn't own any of the data. So to make changes, they have to somehow verify the issue (even though they have no tools of their own to do so) and then get providers like TomTom to fix their data. After this, they have to work on merging TomToms data back into their data. It's a long process and Apple is clearly not even able to handle the verification of map corrections.

Google has spent years working on fixing maps. Their process for handling user submitted corrections is much more automated since they own most of the data themselves. They also have a vast amount of street view and satellite data they can use to verify changes. Apple is lacking in this type of data so they are at a huge disadvantage no matter how many iOS users are using Maps.

 

[jaymzuk]

It would not be copying if it was only used to detect false locations on Apple's map. They could use this report of 'suspected' false locations to further investigate. It's not so different from users telling Apple that a location is wrong after visually checking with Google maps.

That's not copying in the same way that sitting next to a smart person in an exam and changing all your answers to match his isn't copying.

The issue at hand isn't the reporting of wrong locations, it's the fact that where there are errors and inaccuracies, the suggestion is to replace Apple's incorrect information with Google's correct data.