Apple TV As a Gaming Console?

[kingtj]

Not applicable!

IMO, this is *not* at all about trying to compete with dedicated game consoles like the XBox or PS3!

The reason you'd put games on AppleTV is to have something similar to what satellite TV and cable providers have been doing; offering a few casual games via set-top box.

It could actually be far superior to most of those solutions, since it runs iOS and there's so much content already written for the operating system. It's mainly a matter of picking and choosing which of the many thousands of iOS game titles can be modified to work well on an AppleTV and played with either the basic remote control, or perhaps with some optional device that could be linked up to it.

But the gaming console is a tough place to break through.

The iPhone when it came out (and still is to a certain extent) was novel for its motion controls and touch sensitivity, and made a great place for portable gaming developers to expand.

Unless they have something wildly different than Wii, Xbox, and Playstation, I think it would be an uphill battle.

Do serious gamers really like to stream their games?

 

[John-117]

I barely want to play iOS games on the go let alone in the comfort of my home when I could be playing real games. I have a 360, PS3, Wii and powerful gaming PC for a reason I definitely don't want/need this.

 

[j-a-x]

What about ATV Apps in general? I'm sure it would be really easy to port my app to iOS and it would be really cool to view live full screen webcams on your TV, but will Apple let us develop for ATV without jailbreaking?

 

[slicecom]

angry birds on my 42 LED. sounds awesome!

crysis 2 on my 42 LED. sounds awesome!

 

[Compile 'em all]

LOL @ people thinking Controller means a physical controller. Anyone that does iOS development will tell you this is a common naming when it comes to doing MVC programming.

 

[PlipPlop]

crysis 2 on my 42 LED. sounds awesome!

Only if its running on a pc

 

[Photics]

for casual games there is kinect and the Rockband/Guitar Hero games

I read that Activision was backing away from music games. That's why something like gaming on Apple TV is exciting. With low development costs on iOS, and thousands of developers making iOS games, innovation is more likely. Big companies seem more likely to release sequels than take risks on innovative titles.

With independent developers able to compete, there's more creativity in game development.

Yes, it is possible to find great discounts on triple-A titles for game consoles. Yet, I'm just not following those games like I used to. While iOS platforms might not have the processing power of the PlayStation 3 or the XBOX 360, which system is more memorable for a general audience?

Angry Birds... that game has been mentioned in this thread. That's because it's memorable and it appeals to a large audience — exactly why the Apple TV can be successful in this market.

Is the next Pacman, Lara Croft, Master Chief or Mario likely to come from from a machine made by Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo or Apple? I think iOS games, even though they're limited technically, have more variety. Developers need to make games that stand out, otherwise their creations will be buried in a sea of apps.

 

[Dr McKay]

The problem is that hardcore gaming as a business is a flop. Sony's game division have haemorrhaged cash since the PS3 launch while MS have struggled.
So please don't get hung-up on Apple trying to emulate a business model that is broken.

In terms of power the Apple TV is more than a match for the Nintendo Wii - which *is* a profitable platform.

C.

Sony lost money especially early on, because they were being sold for less than it cost to make them. Manufacture costs of PS3's have since fallen 70%. And early on PS3 had very little on the way of good or exclusive games. Since this has been rectified with a string of solid titles.

As for Microsoft, it covered the costs of developing the 360 and turned a profit in the first year of launch. Then a year later when they extended the warranty that put them at a loss for 6 months. Before they began turning a profit again.

Even the Kinect, which while yes it is targeted as casual audiences, is an amazing piece of technology, and is being integrated into "hard core" games. The Kinect sold faster than the iPad.

Kinect sells twice as fast as the iPad

 

[Mattsasa]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_6 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E200 Safari/6533.18.5)

Apple will sell a controller for ~40. which isn't unreasonable at all for a Bluetooth controller with accelerometer and gyrometer.

 

[SockRolid]

Apple TV As a Gaming Console?

And this is a surprise because, um, why?

 

[sterno74]

But the gaming console is a tough place to break through.

The iPhone when it came out (and still is to a certain extent) was novel for its motion controls and touch sensitivity, and made a great place for portable gaming developers to expand.

Unless they have something wildly different than Wii, Xbox, and Playstation, I think it would be an uphill battle.

Do serious gamers really like to stream their games?

First of all, nobody is going to be streaming games. OnLive is an interesting concept, but the latency involved in it is too great for it to get adopted broadly. It's frustrating enough to have a game lag on you, but when the controls themselves lag, that's going to be a lot worse.

Second: this isn't for serious gamers, but who cares?

Think about this. Apple releases a next generation AppleTV this year that's got double the storage (so 16GB) and integrated bluetooth. Then they offer an add on blue tooth game controller you can buy for say $39? People who just want an AppleTV can still get it, and for those who want to add on the controller, they can pay a little more. Maybe sell bundles with two controllers in a box?

At the same time, Apple updates it's SDK for iOS to have better integrated game support. So, for example, you can have automatic support for dual-stick controls. In the iPhone these would be rendered on the touch screen, and on the AppleTV, it would be the physical controls. Write one game and have it work on iPhone, iPad, and AppleTV.

So sure, they may not get serious gamers but who cares? What will make it wildly different is that it will be dirt cheap and simple. All of the consoles our there are $200-300 investments at least and each game is upwards of $40. This would be under $150 with games running at most $5-10 each and many will be free.

 

[gkarris]

Could you tell me what other console has a $29 controller...? I'd REALLY like to know because I have been paying about $60 each!

Third party wired controllers - they're "greener" (no battery and don't require a charge, and they're always ready).

Ha, ha, just like "old school Atari" (I don't feel comfortable unless there's a wire hanging off the controller).

Apple will definitely go wireless as they're not enough ports on the AppleTV to plug one in.

Bluetooth version of the current Apple Remote with extra buttons?

They HAVE TO go cheap on the controllers.

A Wii with 2 pack in games or an XBOX 360 4Gig is only $199.

An AppleTV is already $99 just by itself (and the remote is more for Media, not games).

 

[snova]

I think the problem with Netflix on the Apple TV is the result of inadequate buffering between the Netflix service and the Apple TV. Apple (or Netflix or the content owners themselves) may not allow the content to be buffered to the Apple TV's flash memory. Thus, no matter how fast your internet connection if you suffer even a short disruption in the content delivery then the stream may need to pause because the buffer in DRAM is so small.

Thus, you might measure an instantaneous 10Mbps download rate from your ISP and you may think that all is well with your network and your ISP. But, if the rate slows down significantly for a minute or more then you may get a pause in the playback.

As an example, it's possible that someone with a rock-solid 2.5Mbps DSL connection may have less problems with Netflix than another user who has an advertised 10Mbps cable connection that has periodic slow downs to rates at or below 1Mbps (even for only a minute or two).

Of course, this doesn't fully explain why some PS3 users have reported better Netflix performance under the same network conditions as with the Apple TV. But it could still have something to do with the buffering of the content, perhaps on the PS3 the stream is being buffered to the PS3's HD.

I had this problem too. I fixed it by going into the Settings and then "Network" testing. It will ask what your expected DL speed should be. Then it will go through a performance test. When I went back into Netflix, it took a lot longer to being playing (more buffering) and didnt have any problems after that. Give it a try.

 

[fpnc]

...For a game to work with AirPlay they would first have to draw their images/frames using the Apple TV's graphics libraries and then they would have to compress that image into H.264 video and stream that to the Apple TV (all in realtime and while keeping the audio and video in sync with the control inputs for the game itself). That would be a very difficult thing to do even with a relatively high-powered desktop computer let alone a handheld iOS device running on a single-core 1GHz processor...

I don't think it will rely heavily on h.264 or framebuffered streaming. I do think it might work like something like NDS wifi game sharing where one only needs a copy of the game which transfers game resources to another player.

AppleTV, just as easy as AirPlay, might have some sort of API which can act as a client that can accept streams of bundled assets pushed from iDevices.

Streaming assets are not new, just look at Unity's webplayer and the games that utilizes it as it takes very little time to buffer the main assets to get you started.

But what you describe is NOT AirPlay and AirPlay-based gaming was what my original post was made against.

Frankly, if I see one more post from someone saying that AirPlay is going to enable games on the Apple TV then I think I'll lose my breakfast.

Let's be clear, AirPlay will NOT be able to stream just anything that you can see on your iPhone/iPod touch/iPad display. Games will almost certainly not work (via AirPlay) and most of the video content on the web will not work (unless it is enabled for AirPlay by the content provider and delivered in H.264/HTML5).

However, it is possible that games will come to the Apple TV (just not via AirPlay). Sure, the games won't be as elaborate as what you get on the XBox 360 or PlayStation 3, but it will be fine for the so-called casual gamer or the person who just wants to slay a few pigs with Angry Birds.

 

[snova]

The two consoles you quote are geared up for serious (a.k.a. hardcore) gaming.
The problem is that hardcore gaming as a business is a flop. Sony's game division have haemorrhaged cash since the PS3 launch while MS have struggled.
So please don't get hung-up on Apple trying to emulate a business model that is broken.

In terms of power the Apple TV is more than a match for the Nintendo Wii - which *is* a profitable platform.

C.

+100! you nailed it. For that reason Wii sales are more then PS3 and XBox360 combined.

 

[rmwebs]

Weird little ecosystem?
Might want to get your facts straight before posting. Why compete for second or third when you can go after number one? Nintendo rules the roost. If everyone thought like you do then everyone would own a top of the line Mac Pro just because it has a lot of power. But that isn't the case.

If you think that the Wii is behind the Xbox and PS3 then why are they copying the Wii just to keep afloat?

Yes I forgot hoe many number one selling games the Wii has

It's a crippled system for many intense games due to its poor specs and god awful controller.

A good example: Call of Duty. The graphics were reduced MAJORLY to get it to work on the Wii, and even then its been reported to have a lot of bugs.

The Xbox is clearly the winner in the current console market. Good library of games, the best console with regards to graphics (even COD had to be down-graded for the PS3!), generally games tend to get reduced to a good price pretty quickly, you can pick up a console VERY cheap and has a boat load of addons such as Sky Player (UK), Facebook, Twitter and a load more in the marketplace. Yes, the PS3 has a browser as does the Wii...but they are pretty impractical unless you're going to plug in a keyboard (and if you do, you may as well just use a normal computer!).


I'm not talking in terms of profitability, sales, etc I'm talking customer satisfaction and features. I cant really see a touch-screen AppleTV taking off any time soon!

 

[iNeko]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but Apple already has the 'controller' framework for the AppleTV; I use it every day.

Apple's remote app for iOS (or whatever they call it now) gives you a gesture control pad for the AppleTV (as well as access to your iTunes library on your mac, etc). All Apple has to do is add a landscape mode and virtual buttons (and iOS keyboard support, for big-screen browsing, etc) and "boom" any iOS device = control pad/remote/keyboard!

 

[fpnc]

I had this problem too. I fixed it by going into the Settings and then "Network" testing. It will ask what your expected DL speed should be. Then it will go through a performance test. When I went back into Netflix, it took a lot longer to being playing (more buffering) and didnt have any problems after that. Give it a try.

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll give it a try. However, I don't think you completely understood what I was saying in my original post. The problem isn't the instantaneous speed that you may measure at time X or Y or even the speed that you may expect, the problem is that you may have the type of connection that varies over time. Thus, your ISP may quote speeds "up to 10Mbps" (or whatever) and you may measure performance close to that but your data rates may vary from minute-to-minute or drop substantially for a minute or more out of every half hour or hour. Then, if the Apple TV isn't buffering enough content to make it past that slowdown you will see a pause in the playback. That's what I expect the problem is with Netflix playback, the buffers are way too small to handle the periodic slowdowns that some users may experience with their ISPs and local networks.

In any case, I can't fully explain your observation so you may be on to something. If what you say is true, then that would be a huge revelation or discovery about the Apple TV. However, it would seem rather odd for Apple to hide a buffer setting (effectively) in the network diagnostics section of the Apple TV interface.

 

[Cyacene]

Just saw this on Macstories and thought it was a good article after reading this thread. Its an app called Joypad, and I think this would work great for Apple TV based gaming. Have a look

You can install the lite version and bring it up on your phone. Its just a very large d-pad with A and B buttons, and a start and select up top. (I havent actually tried it, as I dont have any emulators), but I think this would be perfect for a lot of games that require more than just slide/touch control.

 

[snova]

...
In any case, I can't fully explain your observation so you may be on to something. If what you say is true, then that would be a huge revelation or discovery about the Apple TV. However, it would seem rather odd for Apple to hide a buffer setting (effectively) in the network diagnostics section of the Apple TV interface.

Looking forward to hearing your results.
btw, Out of the box the AppleTV buffered for about 7 sec before playback.. now it buffers around 60 sec before it starts playback for me.

 

[fpnc]

Looking forward to hearing your results...

It won't be soon since I can't currently use Netflix on my Apple TV.

 

[435713]

I personally think Apple should absolutely do a console. They can sell it 499 and with the right support it would sell like crazy I am sure. They can integrate iTunes right in there and if they can get large sales of units then they can push their movie sales off of there even higher. 1080p of course they need to get on that.

Also they can have more apps downloaded as well and I believe they can set up a fantastic online structure. PSN plain out sucks compared to XBOX Live. Live is well integrated but MS's design absolutely is ugly looking. I thought the blades actually were better and more simple. Don't mind paying for live though although they litter it with ads. The XBOX still is a piece of sh** build wise, absolutely cheap and horrible.

At 499 Apple could make something easily more powerful than those 2 systems and make a profit as well on each one sold. Then of course get more revenue off iTunes and DLC. I think it's worth a try, worst they do is break even and no harm done if they don't succeed.

AppleTV with iOS games is meh to me. Come on Apple throw the ball down the field for once. It's fun!

 

[dpierre]

The two consoles you quote are geared up for serious (a.k.a. hardcore) gaming.
The problem is that hardcore gaming as a business is a flop. Sony's game division have haemorrhaged cash since the PS3 launch while MS have struggled.
So please don't get hung-up on Apple trying to emulate a business model that is broken.

In terms of power the Apple TV is more than a match for the Nintendo Wii - which *is* a profitable platform.

C.

When was Microsoft struggling with the Xbox 360? I've seen "hardcore" games have great sales on consoles. Please explain how this business model is broken? Just because Apple may not choose to go down this route? Just curious...let me know.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/02/08/nba-2k11-is-2k-sports-best-selling-game-ever/
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/94558/20101222/activision-video-game-shooting-game-call-of-duty-black-ops-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2-xbox-360-pl.htm
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gamehunters/post/2010/05/battlefield-bad-company-2-sales-reach-5-million/1

Please explain the flop.

 

[Bdub12]

Y'think the "Thunder" refers to Thunderbolt?

 

[EbookReader]

iOS version of Ouya? (the Android gaming console that has raised more than $3.8 million in less than 2 days on Kickstarter, fastest of all time)


Could it work?