Apple TV As a Gaming Console?

[jeznav]

Streaming assets

For a game to work with AirPlay they would first have to draw their images/frames using the Apple TV's graphics libraries and then they would have to compress that image into H.264 video and stream that to the Apple TV (all in realtime and while keeping the audio and video in sync with the control inputs for the game itself). That would be a very difficult thing to do even with a relatively high-powered desktop computer let alone a handheld iOS device running on a single-core 1GHz processor.

I don't think it will rely heavily on h.264 or framebuffered streaming. I do think it might work like something like NDS wifi game sharing where one only needs a copy of the game which transfers game resources to another player.

AppleTV, just as easy as AirPlay, might have some sort of API which can act as a client that can accept streams of bundled assets pushed from iDevices.

Streaming assets are not new, just look at Unity's webplayer and the games that utilizes it as it takes very little time to buffer the main assets to get you started.

 

[Photics]

Simply opening your hardware to developers is not going to do any good.

History shows otherwise. One of the reasons the iPhone is so popular is because of the developers. Without developers, there's no Angry Birds, Cut the Rope or Fruit Ninja.

They need to figure out what a controller would look like, work, how it would integrate. They would also need a clue about what sort of hardware would be required for gaming and what would be appealing to the target audience. That's why I said they don't have the expertise to do so.

I don't think it's that difficult. Developers have already done some amazing things — WITH THE CURRENT RESTRICTIONS.

Proof: "Chopper 2 Wireless Controller"

You can use an iPhone / iPod Touch to control a Mac game. I don't think that's the best way to control a game, but it is an option. Bluetooth controllers are another option.

It should be something simple and something cheap.

 

[Carniphage]

I believe the XBox/Gaming division at MS is doing rather well .. I am not sure about Sony ..

MS has been hovering around the break even level for the whole of the 360's life. Not a success in any meaningful way. And certainly not sufficiently profitable to wipe out the gigantic losses on the original XBox.

The Kinect does seem to be helping them a little.

People called Nintendo dead for a long time before they reinvented themselfs.

Nintendo have always been profitable. But they run their business differently.

And the NGP/PSP2 is looking great .. only the price tag could kill it now.

The NGP has the same flaws as the PSP. It will appeal only to the hardcore and will be unattractive for developers unless Sony make download the main channel.

Apple would be wise to take themselves out of the equation and leave the decisions to developers. Sony and MS have failed because they steered everything towards a hardcore audience.

The AppleTV lacks bluetooth, which means controllers must be WiFi.

That means either a dedicated wireless controller or an iPod touch.

C.

 

[karsten]

Apple TV could certainly be rolled out in an extreme gamer edition AGT!

that'd be sweet, quad core A9, DD 5.1, wireless controller etc all in a little tiny box for the controller they could make it the same form factor as the ipod touch with or without the lcd screen where all it would show would be the buttons on the screen

 

[deadkennedy]

Mac Mini anyone?

 

[tatonka]

History shows otherwise. One of the reasons the iPhone is so popular is because of the developers. Without developers, there's no Angry Birds, Cut the Rope or Fruit Ninja.



I don't think it's that difficult. Developers have already done some amazing things — WITH THE CURRENT RESTRICTIONS.

Proof: "Chopper 2 Wireless Controller"

You can use an iPhone / iPod Touch to control a Mac game. I don't think that's the best way to control a game, but it is an option. Bluetooth controllers are another option.

It should be something simple and something cheap.

Well it is difficult though. Are you going to have buttons, analog sticks, touch area, motion sensing, point abilities (like the Wii Controller). Sure anybody could just come up A controller .. but that is not necessarily going to be successful. That's why I said, you knowledge of your target market and Apple, in mind opinion, does not have that.

And it wont. An open Apple TV with a five button remote (what is the current remote) is not going to be successful. The developers make the difference, I agree there, but even they need something to work with. So, simply opening it up will do no good, Apple would need a solid strategy and again I doubt they have the knowledge do it and even worse, they are not even interested in doing it. Steve Jobs does not care for gaming .. (and I don't mean that in any way negative, because I guess the majority of Apple users also does not care for gaming much, beyond Farmville maybe).

T.

 

[Popeye206]

I don't see Apple going for "hard core" gamers. But, there are tons of casual gamers that having Apps available on AppleTV that would love this. It would promote more iPod sales. More iPad sales (as controllers) and give an Apple centric consumer a nice casual gaming experience. I know it would get me to buy a new ATV.

Plus... think beyond games... if a device like the iPad and ATV can share apps there could be some interesting opportunities for developers. Classroom applications, etc... could be very cool and it seems like an easy thing to add.

 

[jeznav]

wasn't there a rumor awhile back before the new Apple TV launched that they were working on an AppleTV that was like an iphone but without a display? I think there were even pictures of it and perhaps that was the appletv controller since it obviously wasn't the appletv

It's all in here: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...emote-and-possible-new-iwork-application.html

 

[Okeo]

The controller part refers to a programming concept used in Objective-C and Cocoa/iOS frameworks. Not video game controller.

This.

First thing I thought when I saw the 'Controller' strings. Still curious as to what 'Thunder' is, however.

 

[vincenz]

If I were a programmer I'd throw in random game-sounding keywords in there to throw people off

 

[jeznav]

The AppleTV lacks bluetooth, which means controllers must be WiFi.

C.

Not according to these guys : http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=92386

 

[Carniphage]

Where have these figures come from?

Sony annual profit statements. Note they have occasional profitable quarters. But the whole year is typically a loss.


http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

Im guessing these games posted profits and were not from large franchises. They all sold at least 1million copies. As I dont know the developments costs I cant be 100 percent sure.
I can think of Heavy Rain, LBP, Uncharted , Infamous , Heavenly Sword.

Heavenly Sword had a team of 60 plus support from Sony. It was in development for a long time. It's budget was pretty huge.
They sold 1.5M units. Which was not enough to go into profit.

http://www.pushsquare.com/12711/ninja-theory-heavenly-sword-sales-were-not-enough-to-break-even/

You see my point. Hardcore game titles have development costs that are linked to Moores Law. But the revenues are not.

C.

 

[Carniphage]

Not according to these guys : http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=92386

Interesting!

C.

 

[tatonka]

The NGP has the same flaws as the PSP. It will appeal only to the hardcore and will be unattractive for developers unless Sony make download the main channel.

Apple would be wise to take themselves out of the equation and leave the decisions to developers. Sony and MS have failed because they steered everything towards a hardcore audience.

The AppleTV lacks bluetooth, which means controllers must be WiFi.

That means either a dedicated wireless controller or an iPod touch.

C.

I completely agree .. which is also why the Wii and the iOS ecosystem has been so tremendously successful, because it appeals to a larger, non-hardcore gamer audience. I just don't see a gaming device which requires at least an iPod touch as a controller (possibly two or more for multiplayer).

I think the Apple TV would need some hardware update to be able to at least be a contender (Bluetooth, a default controller and a little more power). At least I play on my phone because I have it with me all the time .. I wouldn't sit down in the evening playing Angry Birds & Co. It would need to deliver something more than that level of entertainment for me to be interested and I by no means am a hardcore gamer.

T.

edit (well the Bluetooth of course opens some more possibilities .. ) /edit

 

[Photics]

An open Apple TV with a five button remote (what is the current remote) is not going to be successful.

I think that's where Apple can make the difference... build a better remote. That would make a better TV viewing experience and a fun gaming experience.

even worse, they are not even interested in doing it. Steve Jobs does not care for gaming

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Apple may not be as serious about gaming as Nintendo, but Apple has put some resources into gaming. If they weren't thinking about gaming, they wouldn't have a gaming section on the iTunes App Store or the Mac App Store. They wouldn't have invested in Game Center either.

 

[edge3281]

As long as there is no monthly service fee like onLive, this could be great.

There isn't a monthly service fee on OnLive. There was going to be but they decided not to have one. I have the console and love it. I can play games on my PC or TV and will on my Mac once I have it.

 

[monaarts]

Wait, so it's $49 plus a 2 year cellular contract just for a game controller?

(okay, you can use an iPod Touch, but still more than a $29 console controller).

Could you tell me what other console has a $29 controller...? I'd REALLY like to know because I have been paying about $60 each!

 

[tatonka]

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. Apple may not be as serious about gaming as Nintendo, but Apple has put some resources into gaming. If they weren't thinking about gaming, they wouldn't have a gaming section on the iTunes App Store or the Mac App Store. They wouldn't have invested in Game Center either.

Well, I meant they don't care for gaming .. not that they would actively fight it and purposefully burn money by not including them in the AppStore.
So far Apples contribution to the gaming scene (on both the Mac, but also on iOS) has been minuscules.

T.

 

[$$$AAPL$$$]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

But the gaming console is a tough place to break through.

The iPhone when it came out (and still is to a certain extent) was novel for its motion controls and touch sensitivity, and made a great place for portable gaming developers to expand.

Unless they have something wildly different than Wii, Xbox, and Playstation, I think it would be an uphill battle.

Do serious gamers really like to stream their games?

A very convenient place to download and store games... I skipped buying an XBOX 360 console and instead buy pc download version (from AMZN, would be great for them to appear on iTunes...) and I would love to be able to download and play games like Splinter Cell Conviction on my Apple TV instead of load my MacBookPro up as it stands.

 

[$$$AAPL$$$]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Using the iPhone as a "Wii" controller with its gyroscope for playing games, displaying applications on your AppleTV, etc. A lot of possibility.

Great idea!

 

[Photics]

So far Apples contribution to the gaming scene (on both the Mac, but also on iOS) has been minuscules.

Minuscule?! I don't know about that. Game Center shows seriousness! Apple could have left it alone. They didn't have to compete with OpenFeint.

Nintendo has been doing the video game thing for years and they don't have a social gaming network like Game Center.

 

[Carniphage]

So far Apples contribution to the gaming scene (on both the Mac, but also on iOS) has been minuscules.

Certainly Apple has not indulged in the burning of bonfires of cash, we see from Sony and MS.

I'd certainly argue that the PS3 has done more harm than good. So if that's the sort of contribution you are looking for, I am not sure we want it.

Apple have simply created a platform which is attractive for all kinds of development, including game development. And then stood back and let developers and customers get on with it.

Apple have also put out a lot of free tools and tutorials which explain how to get the best from the hardware.

Personally, I think that is enough.

C.

 

[jonnysods]

I don't have cable TV, which is fine by me but I really miss watching the NBA. I'm hoping that an app store comes out for the ATV, and that they release an NBA channel. $100 for a year pass or something like that. I would love it.

 

[jlmitnick]

Yawn. You can buy an Xbox 360 with a wireless controller for $120 from gamestop nowadays, which has the best iteration of netflix streaming, the same buying/renting of movies tv shows, all the mainstream console games and also an xbox live arcade/indie store that sells cheap casual games. Still don't get the point of an appleTV unless you're just an apple fanatic with no other devices in your home and you want to keep things consistent or something.

 

[Photics]

Yawn. You can buy an Xbox 360 with a wireless controller for $120 from gamestop nowadays, which has the best iteration of netflix streaming, the same buying/renting of movies tv shows, all the mainstream console games and also an xbox live arcade/indie store that sells cheap casual games. Still don't get the point of an appleTV unless you're just an apple fanatic with no other devices in your home and you want to keep things consistent or something.

That's a used system though. Comparing a new Apple TV to a used XBOX 360 is not a fair comparison. The cheapest new XBOX 360 system I could find is $200.

Also, the XBOX 360 is HUGE compared to the Apple TV.

I have a PC I could hook up to my living room TV. It could crush the XBOX 360 and Apple TV in gaming and entertainment options. But unfortunately, such a large box connected to the TV wouldn't look very pretty.