Apple TV As a Gaming Console?

[tatonka]

Certainly Apple has not indulged in the burning of bonfires of cash, we see from Sony and MS.

I'd certainly argue that the PS3 has done more harm than good. So if that's the sort of contribution you are looking for, I am not sure we want it.

Apple have simply created a platform which is attractive for all kinds of development, including game development. And then stood back and let developers and customers get on with it.

Apple have also put out a lot of free tools and tutorials which explain how to get the best from the hardware.

Personally, I think that is enough.

C.

Yeah I guess you could argue that creating the environment itself is all the contribution necessary. What I meant is that there was very little development or focus on gaming while creating the iOS and iDevices. At least very little is visible that would be tailored towards gaming.
I do agree on the game center .. that is a clear contribution and I hadn't thought of that. So I would like to change my statement from minuscule to small contribution.

I personally have nothing invested in Sony, so I don't really care how much money they burn (just as I couldn't care less how much money Apple has in the bank). For me as a customer/user the PS3 offers a rich gaming environment with a ton of games of all levels. Even if it is a shark pool for developers, so far it hasn't done much harm to the choice of games. Same goes for the XBox, plenty of games, great online services and with the Live services also a store for the quick and cheap games.

Btw. the app store might be very appealing for indie developers. In the end however, there is also a very small number of apps and developers that really make big bucks, kind of a shark pool as well. The difference is maybe that the entrance hurdle is a little lower.

T.

 

[jlmitnick]

That's a used system though. Comparing a new Apple TV to a used XBOX 360 is not a fair comparison. The cheapest new XBOX 360 system I could find is $200.

Also, the XBOX 360 is HUGE compared to the Apple TV.

I have a PC I could hook up to my living room TV. It could crush the XBOX 360 and Apple TV in gaming and entertainment options. But unfortunately, such a large box connected to the TV wouldn't look very pretty.

Fair enough on both points. Just seems odd to me though that people who have apple TVs (and thus presumably DON'T have any of the major gaming consoles) would all of a sudden be interested in gaming on their big screen TV.

 

[alent1234]

That's a used system though. Comparing a new Apple TV to a used XBOX 360 is not a fair comparison. The cheapest new XBOX 360 system I could find is $200.

Also, the XBOX 360 is HUGE compared to the Apple TV.

I have a PC I could hook up to my living room TV. It could crush the XBOX 360 and Apple TV in gaming and entertainment options. But unfortunately, such a large box connected to the TV wouldn't look very pretty.

the games are much better than iOS games which are mostly good to pass the commute time

 

[Carniphage]

For me as a customer/user the PS3 offers a rich gaming environment with a ton of games of all levels.

Did you not notice that it took 5 years for Gran Turismo to come out?
You may notice the number of studio closures reducing that rich gaming environment.

Btw. the app store might be very appealing for indie developers. In the end there is also a very small number of apps and developers that really make big bucks.

I think the nice thing about the app store, is that it is a level playing field. Anyone can make an app. You can invest 24 hours or 24 man years, and put it out there. You may or may not make a success.

The console market isn't really like that.

C.

 

[Twizz91]

Hmm
I actually thought that as timed would pass by, they would come up with a real game console... hey, Apple could name it the iCon (for the peope who are a bit on the slow side: iCon(sole) )

But I see it this way: apple tv is becoming more and more an ios-device, so it won't take long before there will be a app store on the apple tv, which takes advantage of the ipad apps (or ipad +HD apps as an adaption for apple tv)

 

[jlmitnick]

Did you not notice that it took 5 years for Gran Turismo to come out?
You may notice the number of studio closures reducing that rich gaming environment.


I think the nice thing about the app store, is that it is a level playing field. Anyone can make an app. You can invest 24 hours or 24 man years, and put it out there. You may or may not make a success.

The console market isn't really like that.

C.

Are you not aware of the XboxLive arcade indie store, the PSN store, and the Wii store? All 3 consoles have these stores with scores of cheap downloadable indie games. You're right that it's hard for indie's to have the publishing clout to get discs printed and shelf space in Best Buy, but you are dead wrong when you say the major consoles don't have flourishing and well supported independent development.

See games like Braid, Limbo, Flower, Super Meat Boy, etc. If anything these small indie titles are really taking over as the primary gaming on many of these consoles for a lot of people.

 

[Dorfdad]

As long as there is no monthly service fee like onLive, this could be great.

man do I hate people who post things like this. OnLive HAS NO MONTHLY FEE for the service it's 100% FREE!

You can play All the Games in the Marketplace for FREE for 30 minutes a million times, You can rent games, buy games or pay a monthly fee for the 40 game PlayPack subscription.

Check here for more informtion: http://www.OnLiveInformer.com

 

[Greg McBride]

Netflix seems to be broken on apple tv - many times it stutters or stalls. I have PS3 in same physical location and it does fine. I thought I had it working but I was wrong.

Apple needs some OS update to fix this.

I was having problems. I changed my DNS on the ATV2 to Google's DNS (008.008.008.008) and it solved my problem. Someone told me that I may not be able to rent movies or TV from Apple, but I don't really do that anyway. It got Netflix working, so you may want to give it a try.

 

[Carniphage]

Are you not aware of the XboxLive arcade indie store, the PSN store, and the Wii store? All 3 consoles have these stores with scores of cheap downloadable indie games. You're right that it's hard for indie's to have the publishing clout to get discs printed and shelf space in Best Buy, but you are dead wrong when you say the major consoles don't have flourishing and well supported independent development.

See games like Braid, Limbo, Flower, Super Meat Boy, etc. If anything these small indie titles are really taking over as the primary gaming on many of these consoles for a lot of people.

You are right in that the download model is where the market is shifting. I see this as more evidence that the hardcore boxed-goods console market is in decline, and an app-store / Steam model is moving it to replace it.

The download model supports independent and profitable development. The examples you cite are great examples!

I would say that the publishing terms for XBLA and PSN are punitive compared to the app store - and far more closed.

C.

 

[Gotta Hankerin]

Apps on AppleTV

Games via AirPlay with maybe GameCenter data and other basic elements streaming from Apple server directly to the AppleTV. Otherwise Apple would need to release a new AppleTV with more memory to run games on system.

Another thought: Channel-like apps could appear on AppleTV. ABC has a nice app right now for the iPad. What if networks could create apps for the AppleTV much like today's traditional channels on TV except with on demand content, behind the scenes stuff, etc. etc.?

 

[jlmitnick]

You are right in that the download model is where the market is shifting. I see this as more evidence that the hardcore boxed-goods console market is in decline, and an app-store / Steam model is moving it to replace it.

The download model supports independent and profitable development. The examples you cite are great examples!

I would say that the publishing terms for XBLA and PSN are punitive compared to the app store - and far more closed.

C.

Well, I wouldn't say that that is where the market is "shifting" per se. More like expanding.

But as to your point about "hardcore" games on decline you couldn't be more wrong. You may WISH that it were true but it simply isn't. You're correct that it's being pushed into fewer titles, but those titles are BIGGER, so the overall profits are still there. You are correct that the indie/downloading gaming scene is expanding FASTER and thus as a percentage of overall numbers, the hardcore market goes down, but since the market AS A WHOLE is growing, the absolute (not relative) size of the hardcore market is indeed far from declining.

 

[sorepheet]

+1

I don't know. You'd need a pretty big datacenter to pull something like that off.

Oh, NiCe I see what you did there.

 

[jimi78]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)

angry birds on my 42 LED. sounds awesome!

+1

 

[Joe-Diver]

I got an ATv2 for Christmas, and I really like it. I've rented a couple of movies from the iTunes store, use it instead of my 360 to stream from my Netflix instant queue, and access content in my iTunes library. It really is a welcome addition to my main entertainment center.

Any and all new functionality is welcome....

 

[jimi78]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117)

Anyone heard of a hack to use wireless gaming controllers to move around ATV interface? Hrrmmmm

 

[Carniphage]

Well, I wouldn't say that that is where the market is "shifting" per se. More like expanding.

But as to your point about "hardcore" games on decline you couldn't be more wrong. You may WISH that it were true but it simply isn't. You're correct that it's being pushed into fewer titles, but those titles are BIGGER, so the overall profits are still there. You are correct that the indie/downloading gaming scene is expanding FASTER and thus as a percentage of overall numbers, the hardcore market goes down, but since the market AS A WHOLE is growing, the absolute (not relative) size of the hardcore market is indeed far from declining.

Yes. You are right. It's growing. But I have doubts about its sustainability.
My analogy it that it's like a rainforest. The only sunlight is absorbed by the canopy (the mega franchises).

Meanwhile the forest floor (in this case indie startups) is denied light and nothing grows.

Growing or not, it's not a business model that a rational company would enter.

C.

 

[Salacion]

The problem with this is that, the ATV would presumably be a casual gaming device. I don't think this world needs another Wii, and Angry Birds is already terrible as is on the iDevices.

No, what would be awesome is bringing something like a Mac App Store to the ATV, where you can play Bioshock, Borderlands, etc.

But since Apple has had so much success with casual, they'd probably pursue that route, if anything even happens.

 

[Carniphage]

The problem with this is that, the ATV would presumably be a casual gaming device. I don't think this world needs another Wii, and Angry Birds is already terrible as is on the iDevices.

No, what would be awesome is bringing something like a Mac App Store to the ATV, where you can play Bioshock, Borderlands, etc.

But since Apple has had so much success with casual, they'd probably pursue that route, if anything even happens.

I'd rather twang birds at a pig-palace than endure Bore-derlands.
How many fricking bullets does it take to kill someone?

C.

 

[Photics]

Fair enough on both points. Just seems odd to me though that people who have apple TVs (and thus presumably DON'T have any of the major gaming consoles) would all of a sudden be interested in gaming on their big screen TV.

I was considering purchasing an XBOX 360 / Kinect combo, but $300 was a bit too much. The problem with consoles is that they often end up collecting dust. I might still get an XBOX 360, but part of that depends on what Apple does with the Apple TV. The little black box doesn't just have to be about games. It could also be about cool apps.

• If the Apple TV allows keyboards and other USB devices, it could be a great web browser.
• If television content producers catch on, apps could be like channels — sidestepping the cable companies.
• Weather, news, remote access, desktop productivity, cloud computing, Facetime
• More gaming possibilities with services like onlive,
• record/playback / Augmented Television (Video input required).

the games are much better than iOS games which are mostly good to pass the commute time

The games are technically superior, but they're also more expensive. When I think about the best XBOX games, I think of games like Halo and Knights of the Old Republic. Those games can be recreated on a new iOS device.

I don't really like any of the newer XBOX 360 games. It's mostly a glut of first-person shooters. As for the PlayStation 3, Infamous seems like one of their best games. I liked it, but I didn't feel like paying $60 for it. Instead, I got Spider-Man: Total Mayhem. Heh, the graphics are terrible in Spider-Man: Total Mayhem when compared to Infamous. Yet, it was about the same amount of fun as the demo to Infamous. Some guy runs around, beats up bad guys. It's the same general idea. Infamous is a better looking game, but is it 60x better? Is it 60x more fun? I don't think so.

With Infinity Blade, the graphics on iOS games are improving. If Apple makes a move into this area — and succeeds — I think the big game development companies will follow. Companies will learn how to do more with less.

Electronic Arts and Capcom are great examples. Many of their iOS games can be purchased for 99¢. It's not so cheap on the gaming consoles.

 

[applefan69]

No. Nor general apps either...

Except for certain KINDS of games (non-timed puzzles with 4-way control, quiz/trivia/party games) and certain KINDS of apps (Hulu, video/music streaming, maps). Those would be a nice extra to have.

This could be expanded further with a special controller... but I don’t see one making sense unless it’s an iPod/iPhone you already have. Most AppleTV owners wouldn’t buy a special controller (unless Apple started bundling it) and then there’s little development incentive.

I say use a paired iphone or ipod touch. could be done very simply, with an already millions userbase who have either iphone/ipod touch. No other way makes much sense actually which is sorta what you are saying.

 

[jlmitnick]

With Infinity Blade, the graphics on iOS games are improving. If Apple makes a move into this area — and succeeds — I think the big game development companies will follow. Companies will learn how to do more with less.

True, I don't think graphics are a barrier for iOS gaming...in addition to Infinity Blade, see also the Dead Space game, it's great.

But the touch-only, no buttons approach will just always be an issue. My wish (that I know won't happen) would be that apple released an official peripheral that's a minimialistic case/skin that has a couple buttons and an analog stick. I imagine no developer will support such a peripheral unless it were apple official...but I just don't see that happening.

My enjoyment of iPhone games would go up 10x if there were some proper controls and not those junky virtual dpad and buttons. I find myself only enjoying games that are "true" iphone games like angry birds or cut the rope where are uniquely and primarily designed to use only a touch screen.

 

[whooleytoo]

The problem with this is that, the ATV would presumably be a casual gaming device. I don't think this world needs another Wii, and Angry Birds is already terrible as is on the iDevices.

No, what would be awesome is bringing something like a Mac App Store to the ATV, where you can play Bioshock, Borderlands, etc.

But since Apple has had so much success with casual, they'd probably pursue that route, if anything even happens.

You could argue that both ways - maybe the world doesn't need another Wii, but does it need another 360/PS3 either?

IMO, an iOS games console would offer something pretty new - a huge library of very cheap (and many free!) games available for download at launch time.

 

[alent1234]

I was considering purchasing an XBOX 360 / Kinect combo, but $300 was a bit too much. The problem with consoles is that they often end up collecting dust. I might still get an XBOX 360, but part of that depends on what Apple does with the Apple TV. The little black box doesn't just have to be about games. It could also be about cool apps.

• If the Apple TV allows keyboards and other USB devices, it could be a great web browser.
• If television content producers catch on, apps could be like channels — sidestepping the cable companies.
• Weather, news, remote access, desktop productivity, cloud computing, Facetime
• More gaming possibilities with services like onlive,
• record/playback / Augmented Television (Video input required).

The games are technically superior, but they're also more expensive. When I think about the best XBOX games, I think of games like Halo and Knights of the Old Republic. Those games can be recreated on a new iOS device.

I don't really like any of the newer XBOX 360 games. It's mostly a glut of first-person shooters. As for the PlayStation 3, Infamous seems like one of their best games. I liked it, but I didn't feel like paying $60 for it. Instead, I got Spider-Man: Total Mayhem. Heh, the graphics are terrible in Spider-Man: Total Mayhem when compared to Infamous. Yet, it was about the same amount of fun as the demo to Infamous. Some guy runs around, beats up bad guys. It's the same general idea. Infamous is a better looking game, but is it 60x better? Is it 60x more fun? I don't think so.

With Infinity Blade, the graphics on iOS games are improving. If Apple makes a move into this area — and succeeds — I think the big game development companies will follow. Companies will learn how to do more with less.

Electronic Arts and Capcom are great examples. Many of their iOS games can be purchased for 99¢. It's not so cheap on the gaming consoles.

i just bought mass effect 2 for $10 from EA 2 weeks ago. Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition was $25 at the time. almost every day there is a sale to get Tier A games for cheaper than $60. and there is a huge library of top notch games you can buy for $20 or less each. and even cheaper if you go used from gamestop

but even the shooters are nice on consoles. Gears of War was awesome along with Black Ops. later this year once i finish Mass Effect 1 and 2 i'm going to play Gears of War 2 and the older Call of Duty games

for casual games there is kinect and the Rockband/Guitar Hero games

 

[n8mac]

This wouldnt be able to compete with the likes of the Xbox or PS3...maybe the Wii though due to their weird little ecosystem they live in...

Weird little ecosystem?
Might want to get your facts straight before posting. Why compete for second or third when you can go after number one? Nintendo rules the roost. If everyone thought like you do then everyone would own a top of the line Mac Pro just because it has a lot of power. But that isn't the case.

If you think that the Wii is behind the Xbox and PS3 then why are they copying the Wii just to keep afloat?

 

[retrorichie]

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The only way this would ever happen is if they made a controller with physical buttons..

Or with haptic feedback